What a move 11.a3!! Aronian-Carlsen_Norway Chess 2017

[Jeroen]

Well, that looks like a quick and easy win. So probably it is not a fortress at all.

If white can even win by playing f4? and letting the black knight to e4, then the starting position is even worse for black.

[Jeroen]

Well, here is your chance to prove us al wrong:

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 34&t=64333

[IQ]

Please post your answer to 28.e4 in this posting:

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 34&t=64333

We all eagerly await your drawing lines!

Good idea! Lets continue the challenge in that thread, i hope Lyudmil does not admit defeat by just ignoring it.

[yanquis1972]

i think lyudmil has a very keen eye, but i get the impression analysis bores him.

my hesitant conclusion is that it is NEARLY a fortress; but black is a crucial tempo off. rather than stupidity, the machines here display their obstinance, the stubborn tenacity with which they cling to what even very strong humans insist are ridiculous evaluations, & relentlessly maneuver until a breakthrough is created.

a near-fortress, & a true fortress -- so close in nature, so many shared traits, but the final outcome is as far apart as the strength of a chess expert, & a chess machine.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

I simply do not know how to give voice to my utter indignation.

of course, the position is a draw, a3 is weak, and I am much more right than anybody else posting here, including your precious engines.

the matter of fact is that it is simply a 10 versus one struggle: an unfair one, draining all my physical resources.

I am definitely able to handle each one of you separately, or all of you mentally, positionally or chessically, but certainly not physically.

I simply do not know how to analyse and post 10 different outputs at the same time. that is pretty much impossible physically.

first, we have this position, with rooks on, SF analyses it, Andreas, a very experience correspondence player, analyses it, at LTC with SF, post the output, and I show it is a draw. he did not even check it.

1:0 for me. At this point in time, the game might already have ended with my victory of course.

then, I play shootout of the position, and the results is convincingly in favour of the draw: more than 70%.

at this time, legitimately, it is already 2:0 for me.
this should have ended it too.

and then starts the big, unfair hullabaloo.

Jeroen posts 20+ games in support of his claim, no one contradicts him.
Mike comes to his support, posting another multitude of games.
no one supports me again.
at the same time, Possioto has found a single move into the long SF line, which could give white winning chances. they insist I find improvement for black.
why did not they show their improvements for black instead, why did not they search for those at all? there certainly are some. this is a long line, where there are thousands of deviations, and I can not look at all.

at about this time, or maybe a bit later, Andreas, who has already lost the challenge with his first encounter of the position, starts posting analysis at 3+ hours with SF at 32 threads. and brings to our attention, that there is a trading rooks line, which is probably better for black. who says so? maybe the line with rooks is better after all, as game results with it are superior?

one way or another, I am distracted again, I have to analyse 10 different positions, they are doing a single one each of them, only and exclusively with the help of engines.
certainly, not very fair.

at about the same time, john picks up a position at random, one that I claim is a fortress, and starts spending hours on it, just on it, to decide if I have missed something. maybe I have missed, maybe not, who knows?

in any case, I have spent my intuition on it, plus 3 sec. of SF analysis. He has spent couple of hours on it.

in the meantime, Possioto offers me a challenge, with another position, he insists me to play, while I am doing something else, to distract me again, all he is doing is looking at his display, probably understanding nothing, but he still insists.

finally, Andreas picks up at random one of the 5 or 6 main lines I have suggested, and shows there is a forced win in some 20 moves or so, far beyond the horizon of any entity that has spent just couple of seconds on it. why he picked precisely that line? why he did not look for improvements for black instead? there are some, certainly, this is not a forced line. and, more importantly, I have not said I have chosen it, but just that it is a plausible alternative.

in the very same time, Noomen is crying berserk, while Mike is blinking and winking at me.
Possioto insists again that I play some move...
john wants me to analyse another fortress again...
Noomen cries again...
Andreas posts another 3-hour SF output, this time on a totally different position, and somehow links it to the game...

Mike joins into the tussle...
Noomen cries again...
Possioto insists again...
the fortress...

I am already entirely drained by then, 10 people handling me, purely physically, and no one, absolutely no one coming to my support.

how did not a single forum member, well-wishing, decide it is morally right to support me, even with a single comment, a single game...?

a single forum member?

certainly, this would have changed the course of events, 10 against 2 still gives some chance.

so, that, in the end, I am completely drained, purely physically, already not knowing what to analyse and to whom to respond.

it is the story of the mighty lion and traiterous hyenas: the lion could quickly handle each and any one of them, even up to the number of 5, but, with a bigger number, the hyenas are already too numerous for a fair fight.

who is stronger, the lyon, or the hyenas?
the lyon, of course.

be so kind to challenge me one versus one, or at most 5 versus one, and then simply accept defeat. this would be fair and not the way you treat it.

finally, I am right of course, the position is a draw, either the one with rooks or without, it is black's choice, statistics support it, but you simply can not outcry a mob or outpost it, when no one is coming to the rescue. certainly, there have been many black draws in all lines, my games show that, but no one is willing to post them, they are posting only the games that suit them.

I do not know why, but that very much reminds me of Communist propaganda.

at this point, I am ready to accept any fair challenge, but not the way you handle it.

and of course, both positions are easy draws, and a3 is a weak move, this will be demonstrated at some point, under fair conditions.

your slowly leaving the forum, hyena-attacked

Lyudmil

hang in there Lyudmil...

don't let them get to you...

reminds me of the movie I, Robot...

where the main character doesn't like all those robots...

but he finally is vindicated in the end...

thanks Dan!

yuo are the only one here deserving a reply.

that is a favourite movie of mine, too.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

the TC was quick, but, that is how engines are tested.

What a crock of shit.

what precisely?

I guess you all here should be greatful to me, because otherwise this thread would have been 20 messages long instead of the current 200+.

and its contents would have been:
- what a great move!
- applause
- curtain

- what a great move!
- applause
- curtain

not very interesting, is it?

[Arpad Rusz]

there is still a tangent that is nagging me; anyone have an opinion on this positon being a draw?

[d]4k3/6B1/2p1p3/2P2p1p/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 w - -

Lyudmil is right, this is a true fortress.

[Jeroen]

The score of 8-2 implies two black WINS from that position. I am curious to see these games. Can you post them?

2) my assessment was 4 times better than your cumulative one

LOL

[Jeroen]

Perhaps you should make a new thread about this position (fortress or not). It is getting a bit messy in this thread and if you make a new posting with diagram, I am sure several people will start to analyse it.

[Jeroen]

I do not care how much Possioto and Noomen will suffer, but the draw has been proven.

Well, if the draw has been proven, you can enter the challenge with Roberto Possioto with confidence!

The challenge is your chance to show us that we are all wrong and you are the one who is right. So: what are you waiting for?

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 98&t=64333