What engine can evaluate this draw ending correctly w/o TB?

[zullil]

This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

In the first position after several moves all that black has to do is to force the position into this new one and it will be mate in 14

[d]8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 2 1

Both positions are draws. Please consult tablebases: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

According to tablebases, your top position is a draw. So Black cannot force White into your second position.

[pichy]

This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

In the first position after several moves all that black has to do is to force the position into this new one and it will be mate in 14

[d]8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 2 1

It is strange houdini can force mate in 14 in this new position, but Komodo think that it is mate in 16

FEN: 8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 0 1

Houdini_15_w32:
4/6 00:00 203 0 -M14 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-b3 e4-e3 Kb3-c3 Kd5-e4 Kc3-c2 Ke4-d4 Kc2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
5/29 00:00 441 0 -M15 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-b3 e4-e3 Kb3-c3 Kd5-e4 Kc3-c2 Ke4-d4 Kc2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
6/29 00:00 796 796,000 -M14 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
7/29 00:00 1,449 1,449,000 -M14 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
8/29 00:00 2,176 1,088,000 -M14 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
9/29 00:00 3,371 1,685,000 -M14 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
9/29 00:00 4,164 2,082,000 -M15 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-d3 Bd4-c5 Kd3-c3 Kd5-e4 Kc3-c2 Ke4-d4 Kc2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
10/29 00:00 5,272 1,757,000 -M14 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-d3 Bd4-c5 Kd3-c3 Kd5-e4 Kc3-c2 Ke4-d4 Kc2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
11/29 00:00 7,935 1,983,000 -M15 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-d3 Bd4-c5 Kd3-c3 Kd5-e4 Kc3-c2 e3-e2 Kc2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3-c4 Bc5-e7 Kc4-b5 Qe1-e6 Kb5-a5 Kf3-e3 Ka5-b5 Ke3-d3 Kb5-a5 Kd3-c4 Ka5-a4 Qe6-a6+
12/29 00:00 9,357 1,871,000 -M15 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-d3 Bd4-c5 Kd3-c3 Kd5-e4 Kc3-c2 Bc5-d4 Kc2-d1 Ke4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bd4-c5 Ke1-f1 Kd3-e4 Kf1-e2 Ke4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
13/37 00:00 11,549 1,924,000 -M14 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-d3 Bd4-c5 Kd3-c3 Kd5-e4 Kc3-c2 Ke4-d4 Kc2-c1 Kd4-d3 Kc1-d1 Bc5-b4 Kd1-c1 Bb4-e7 Kc1-d1 e3-e2+ Kd1-c1 e2-e1Q+ Kc1-b2 Qe1-c3+ Kb2-b1 Be7-f6 Kb1-a2 Qc3-b2+
13/37 00:00 13,677 1,953,000 -M15 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 e4-e3 Kc2-d3 Bc5-d4 Kd3-c2 Kd5-e4 Kc2-d1 Ke4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bd4-c5 Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f2 e2-e1Q+ Kf2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
14/37 00:00 14,152 1,769,000 -M14 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
15/37 00:00 17,840 1,982,000 -M15 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
16/37 00:00 23,070 1,922,000 -M15 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 e4-e3 Kc2-d3 Bc5-d4 Kd3-c2 Kd5-e4 Kc2-d1 Ke4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bd4-c3+ Ke1-f1 Kd3-d4 Kf1-e2 Kd4-e4 Ke2-d1 Ke4-d3 Kd1-c1 e3-e2 Kc1-b1 e2-e1Q+ Kb1-a2 Kd3-c4 Ka2-a3 Qe1-a1+
17/37 00:00 114,039 3,678,000 -M15 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 e4-e3 Kc2-d3 Bc5-d4 Kd3-c2 Kd5-e4 Kc2-d1 Ke4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bd4-c3+ Ke1-f1 Kd3-d4 Kf1-e2 Kd4-e4 Ke2-d1 Ke4-d3 Kd1-c1 e3-e2 Kc1-b1 e2-e1Q+ Kb1-a2 Kd3-c4 Ka2-a3 Qe1-a1+
18/37 00:00 245,365 1,752,000 -M15 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 Kd3-e4 Kf1-e2 Bb4-c3 Ke2-d1 Ke4-d3 Kd1-c1 e3-e2 Kc1-b1 e2-e1Q+ Kb1-a2 Kd3-c4 Ka2-a3 Qe1-a1+
19/37 00:00 497,834 2,222,000 -M14 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Bb4-e7 Kf3-g2 Be7-g5 Kg2-f3 Bg5-e7 Kf3-g2
20/37 00:00 974,553 2,309,000 -M14 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
21/37 00:00 1,945,582 2,799,000 -M14 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Rc4xc3+ Kc2xc3 e5-e4 Kc3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 Kd3-e4 Kf1-e2 Bb4-c3 Ke2-d1 Ke4-d3 Kd1-c1 e3-e2 Kc1-b1 e2-e1Q+ Kb1-a2 Kd3-c4 Ka2-a3 Qe1-a1+
22/37 00:01 3,949,147 3,094,000 -M11 Kd3-c2 Rd4-c4+ Qe3-c3 Bc5-b4 Qc3xc4+ Kd5xc4 Kc2-d1 Kc4-d3 Kd1-c1 e5-e4 Kc1-b2 Kd3-d4 Kb2-c2 Kd4-c4 Kc2-c1 Kc4-d3 Kc1-b2
22/37 00:01 4,225,193 3,030,000 -M14 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 Bd4-c5 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
23/37 00:01 4,598,406 2,978,000 -M14 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 Bd4-c5 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kc4-d4 Ke2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-e1 Bc5-b4+ Ke1-f1 e3-e2+ Kf1-g2 e2-e1Q Kg2-f3 Qe1-e4+ Kf3-f2 Qe4-g4 Kf2-f1 Bb4-c5 Kf1-e1 Qg4-e2+
24/37 00:01 5,276,792 2,897,000 -M13 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 Kd5-c4 Kc2-d2 e5-e4 Kd2-e2 e4-e3 Ke2-e1 Kc4-d3 Ke1-f1 Bd4-c5 Kf1-g2 e3-e2 Kg2-h3 e2-e1Q Kh3-g4 Qe1-e4+ Kg4-g5 Bc5-d4 Kg5-h5 Qe4-f5+ Kh5-h6 Qf5-g4 Kh6-h7 Qg4-g7+
24/37 00:02 7,828,821 3,116,000 -M14 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Bc5-b4 Ke2-f3 Kd4-d3 Kf3-g2 e3-e2 Kg2-g3 e2-e1Q+ Kg3-g4 Bb4-e7 Kg4-f3 Qe1-f1+ Kf3-g4 Qf1-g2+ Kg4-f4 Kd3-d4 Kf4-f5 Qg2-e4+
25/37 00:03 11,105,054 3,312,000 -M14 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Bc5-b4 Ke2-f3 Kd4-d3 Kf3-g2 e3-e2 Kg2-g3 e2-e1Q+ Kg3-g4 Bb4-e7 Kg4-f3 Qe1-f1+ Kf3-g4 Qf1-g2+ Kg4-f4 Kd3-d4 Kf4-f5 Qg2-e4+
26/37 00:04 15,958,446 3,337,000 -M14 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Bc5-b4 Ke2-f3 Kd4-d3 Kf3-g3 e3-e2 Kg3-f4 e2-e1Q Kf4-f5 Qe1-e4+ Kf5-f6 Qe4-d5 Kf6-g7 Qd5-g5+ Kg7-h7 Bb4-f8 Kh7-h8 Qg5-g7+
27/37 00:07 25,648,511 3,272,000 -M14 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Bc5-b4 Ke2-f3 Kd4-d3 Kf3-g3 e3-e2 Kg3-f4 e2-e1Q Kf4-f5 Qe1-e4+ Kf5-f6 Qe4-d5 Kf6-g7 Qd5-g5+ Kg7-h7 Bb4-f8 Kh7-h8 Qg5-g7+
28/37 00:10 34,566,692 3,268,000 -M14 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Bc5-b4 Ke2-f3 Kd4-d3 Kf3-g3 e3-e2 Kg3-f4 e2-e1Q Kf4-f5 Qe1-e4+ Kf5-f6 Qe4-d5 Kf6-g7 Qd5-g5+ Kg7-h7 Bb4-f8 Kh7-h8 Qg5-g7+
29/41 00:23 75,826,358 3,279,000 -M14 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Bc5-b4 Ke2-f3 Kd4-d3 Kf3-g3 Kd3-d4 Kg3-f4 e3-e2 Kf4-f5 e2-e1Q Kf5-f6 Kd4-d3 Kf6-f5 Bb4-e7 Kf5-g6 Qe1-e6+ Kg6-g7 Qe6-f6+ Kg7-h7 Be7-f8 Kh7-g8 Qf6-g7+

========================================================================================================================


FEN: 8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 0 1

Komodo3-64:
1 00:00 45 450,000 -0.05 Kd3-e2
2 00:00 282 282,154 +0.05 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
3 00:00 938 468,810 -3.75 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+
4 00:00 1,173 586,262 -3.74 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-d2 Kd5-d4
5 00:00 1,327 663,231 -3.74 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-d2 Kd5-d4
5 00:00 1,409 469,626 -3.74 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-d2 Kd5-d4
6 00:00 1,726 575,283 -3.89 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-d2 Kd5-d4 Kd2-e2 Rc3-c2+ Ke2-f3 e5-e4+
6 00:00 1,859 309,806 -3.89 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-d2 Kd5-d4 Kd2-e2 Rc3-c2+ Ke2-f3 e5-e4+
7 00:00 2,082 346,969 -4.05 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+
7 00:00 2,805 400,716 -4.05 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-d2 Kd5-d4 Kd2-e2 Rc3-c2+ Ke2-f3 e5-e4+ Kf3-g4
7 00:00 2,808 351,025 -4.05 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-d2 Kd5-d4 Kd2-e2 Rc3-c2+ Ke2-f3 e5-e4+ Kf3-g4
8 00:00 3,155 350,525 -4.21 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+
8 00:00 4,128 412,790 -4.14 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-e1 e4-e3
8 00:00 4,318 431,790 -4.14 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-e1 e4-e3
9 00:00 5,387 448,877 -4.16 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-f1 e4-e3 Kf1-e1 Kd4-c3
9 00:00 6,271 482,366 -4.16 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-f1 e4-e3 Kf1-e1 Kd4-c3
10 00:00 9,686 645,677 -4.18 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kd4-c3 Ke2-d1 Bc5-a3
10 00:00 13,072 768,932 -4.18 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 e5-e4 Ke2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e2 Kd4-c3 Ke2-d1 Bc5-a3
11 00:00 17,132 856,580 -4.34 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
11 00:00 24,412 938,887 -4.81 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
11 00:00 31,496 1,049,842 -5.52 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
11 00:00 42,566 1,038,185 -4.83 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-d2 Kd5-d4 Kd2-e2 Rc3-c2+ Ke2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-e1 e4-e3 Ke1-d1 e3-e2+ Kd1-e1 Rc2-c1+
11 00:00 43,227 1,054,307 -4.83 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-d2 Kd5-d4 Kd2-e2 Rc3-c2+ Ke2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-e1 e4-e3 Ke1-d1 e3-e2+ Kd1-e1 Rc2-c1+
12 00:00 45,648 1,061,552 -5.16 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+
12 00:00 61,231 1,093,415 -5.21 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-e2 Kd5-d4 Ke2-f2 e5-e4 Kf2-e2 Rc3-c2+ Ke2-e1 e4-e3 Ke1-d1 e3-e2+ Kd1-e1 Kd4-e4 Ke1-f2
12 00:00 62,620 1,098,575 -5.21 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 Rc4-c3+ Ke3-e2 Kd5-d4 Ke2-f2 e5-e4 Kf2-e2 Rc3-c2+ Ke2-e1 e4-e3 Ke1-d1 e3-e2+ Kd1-e1 Kd4-e4 Ke1-f2
13 00:00 65,485 1,109,914 -5.72 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+
13 00:00 72,630 1,134,824 -5.64 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-b4+ Kd2-c2 e2-e1Q Kc2-b2 Qe1-e4 Kb2-b3 Qe4-d3+ Kb3-a4
13 00:00 84,729 1,176,783 -5.64 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-b4+ Kd2-c2 e2-e1Q Kc2-b2 Qe1-e4 Kb2-b3 Qe4-d3+ Kb3-a4
14 00:00 100,295 1,208,370 -5.69 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-b4+ Kd2-c2 e2-e1Q Kc2-b2 Qe1-e4 Kb2-b3 Qe4-d3+ Kb3-a4 Qd3-d1+ Ka4-b5 Qd1-d5+
14 00:00 106,855 1,228,219 -5.69 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-b4+ Kd2-c2 e2-e1Q Kc2-b2 Qe1-e4 Kb2-b3 Qe4-d3+ Kb3-a4 Qd3-d1+ Ka4-b5 Qd1-d5+
15 00:00 134,308 1,267,045 -5.75 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3-c4 Qe1-a5 Kc4-b3 Qa5-c3+ Kb3-a4 Qc3-c4+ Ka4-a3
15 00:00 160,022 1,230,928 -5.75 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3-c4 Qe1-a5 Kc4-b3 Qa5-c3+ Kb3-a4 Qc3-c4+ Ka4-a3
16 00:00 189,332 1,245,601 -5.75 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3-c4 Qe1-a5 Kc4-b3 Qa5-c3+ Kb3-a4 Qc3-c4+ Ka4-a3 Bd4-c5+ Ka3-b2
16 00:00 194,272 1,237,404 -5.75 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3-c4 Qe1-a5 Kc4-b3 Qa5-c3+ Kb3-a4 Qc3-c4+ Ka4-a3 Bd4-c5+ Ka3-b2
17 00:00 227,843 1,238,277 -5.91 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
17 00:00 308,702 1,239,764 -6.38 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
17 00:00 382,100 1,228,614 -7.09 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
17 00:00 460,551 1,238,041 -7.21 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3-c4 Bd4-c5 Kc4-b5 Qe1-e4 Kb5xc5 Qe4-e5+ Kc5-c4 Kf3-e3 Kc4-b3 Qe5-d5+
17 00:00 532,413 1,235,297 -7.21 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3-c4 Bd4-c5 Kc4-b5 Qe1-e4 Kb5xc5 Qe4-e5+ Kc5-c4 Kf3-e3 Kc4-b3 Qe5-d5+
18 00:00 613,922 1,245,277 -7.25 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3xd4 Qe1-e4+ Kd4-c3 Kf3-e3 Kc3-b3 Qe4-d5+ Kb3-b2 Qd5-d4+ Kb2-b3 Ke3-e4 Kb3-c2 Qd4-d6
18 00:00 641,610 1,243,428 -7.25 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3xd4 Qe1-e4+ Kd4-c3 Kf3-e3 Kc3-b3 Qe4-d5+ Kb3-b2 Qd5-d4+ Kb2-b3 Ke3-e4 Kb3-c2 Qd4-d6
19 00:00 807,093 1,283,137 -7.32 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3xd4 Qe1-e4+ Kd4-c5 Kf3-e3 Kc5-d6 Ke3-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-c4 Kd7-d6 Qe4-d5+ Kd6-e7 Kc4-d4
19 00:00 883,099 1,281,709 -7.32 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3xd4 Qe1-e4+ Kd4-c5 Kf3-e3 Kc5-d6 Ke3-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-c4 Kd7-d6 Qe4-d5+ Kd6-e7 Kc4-d4
20 00:01 1,095,276 1,307,009 -7.33 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3xd4 Qe1-e4+ Kd4-c5 Qe4-e5+ Kc5-b6 Kf3-e4 Kb6-c6 Qe5-d5+ Kc6-c7 Ke4-e3 Kc7-b6 Ke3-d4 Kb6-a6 Kd4-d3 Ka6-b6 Kd3-e3
20 00:01 1,126,954 1,302,837 -7.33 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d1 e5-e4 Kd1-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-e1 e3-e2 Ke1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3xd4 Qe1-e4+ Kd4-c5 Qe4-e5+ Kc5-b6 Kf3-e4 Kb6-c6 Qe5-d5+ Kc6-c7 Ke4-e3 Kc7-b6 Ke3-d4 Kb6-a6 Kd4-d3 Ka6-b6 Kd3-e3
21 00:01 1,429,638 1,303,225 -7.49 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
21 00:01 2,336,878 1,359,440 -7.49 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-b3 e4-e3 Kb3-c4 e3-e2 Kc4xc5 e2-e1Q Kc5-d6 Qe1-e4 Kd6-d7 Kf3-f4 Kd7-d6 Kf4-e3 Kd6-d7 Qe4-e5 Kd7-c6 Qe5-e7 Kc6-b5 Qe7-c7 Kb5-a6 Qc7-c6+ Ka6-a7 Ke3-f3 Ka7-b8 Qc6-c4
21 00:01 2,336,881 1,357,861 -7.49 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-b3 e4-e3 Kb3-c4 e3-e2 Kc4xc5 e2-e1Q Kc5-d6 Qe1-e4 Kd6-d7 Kf3-f4 Kd7-d6 Kf4-e3 Kd6-d7 Qe4-e5 Kd7-c6 Qe5-e7 Kc6-b5 Qe7-c7 Kb5-a6 Qc7-c6+ Ka6-a7 Ke3-f3 Ka7-b8 Qc6-c4
22 00:02 2,725,445 1,359,323 -7.65 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
22 00:02 2,890,161 1,358,158 -8.12 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
22 00:02 2,926,570 1,356,148 -M52 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
22 00:02 2,927,151 1,356,417 -M55 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+
22 01:22 86,287,670 1,041,756 -M11 Kd3-c3 Rd4-c4+ Kc3-d2 Bc5xe3+ Kd2xe3 e5-e4 Ke3-f4 Kd5-d4 Kf4-g4 e4-e3 Kg4-g3 Kd4-d3 Kg3-f3 e3-e2 Kf3-f2 e2-e1Q+ Kf2-f3 Qe1-e3+ Kf3-g2 Rc4-c2+ Kg2-f1 Qe3-c1+
22 01:45 109,961,854 1,046,269 -M58 Kd3-e2
22 02:00 127,868,626 1,060,578 -M17 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-e1 Ke4-f3 Ke1-d2 e5-e4 Kd2-c3 e4-e3 Kc3-c4 e3-e2 Kc4xc5 e2-e1Q Kc5-d6 Qe1-e4 Kd6-c7 Qe4-e5+ Kc7-b7 Kf3-e3 Kb7-b6 Ke3-d4 Kb6-b7 Qe5-d6 Kb7-a7 Qd6-d7+ Ka7-b8 Qd7-e7 Kb8-c8 Kd4-d5 Kc8-b8 Kd5-c6 Kb8-c8 Qe7-c7+
22 02:01 129,655,214 1,065,288 -7.57 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-d3 Kd5-e5 Kd3-e2 Ke5-e4 Ke2-d1 Ke4-f3 Kd1-c2 Bd4-c5 Kc2-b3 e3-e2 Kb3-c4 e2-e1Q Kc4xc5 Qe1-e5+ Kc5-b6 Kf3-e4 Kb6-b7 Qe5-f6 Kb7-c7 Qf6-f7+ Kc7-b8 Qf7-b3+ Kb8-a7 Qb3-d5 Ka7-b6 Qd5-c4 Kb6-a5
22 02:01 129,665,372 1,065,240 -7.57 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-d3 Kd5-e5 Kd3-e2 Ke5-e4 Ke2-d1 Ke4-f3 Kd1-c2 Bd4-c5 Kc2-b3 e3-e2 Kb3-c4 e2-e1Q Kc4xc5 Qe1-e5+ Kc5-b6 Kf3-e4 Kb6-b7 Qe5-f6 Kb7-c7 Qf6-f7+ Kc7-b8 Qf7-b3+ Kb8-a7 Qb3-d5 Ka7-b6 Qd5-c4 Kb6-a5
23 02:03 131,770,903 1,070,933 -7.57 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-d3 Kd5-e5 Kd3-e2 Ke5-e4 Ke2-e1 Ke4-d3 Ke1-f1 Bd4-c5 Kf1-e1 Kd3-e4 Ke1-e2 Ke4-f4 Ke2-e1 Kf4-f3 Ke1-d1 e3-e2+ Kd1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3xd4 Qe1-e4+ Kd4-c5 Qe4-g4 Kc5-b6 Qg4-d4+ Kb6-a5 Qd4-c4 Ka5-b6 Kf3-e4
23 02:03 132,153,393 1,071,039 -7.57 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4 Kd3-c2 e5-e4 Kc2-d2 e4-e3+ Kd2-d3 Kd5-e5 Kd3-e2 Ke5-e4 Ke2-e1 Ke4-d3 Ke1-f1 Bd4-c5 Kf1-e1 Kd3-e4 Ke1-e2 Ke4-f4 Ke2-e1 Kf4-f3 Ke1-d1 e3-e2+ Kd1-d2 Bc5-d4 Kd2-d3 e2-e1Q Kd3xd4 Qe1-e4+ Kd4-c5 Qe4-g4 Kc5-b6 Qg4-d4+ Kb6-a5 Qd4-c4 Ka5-b6 Kf3-e4
24 02:03 132,361,845 1,071,200 -M85 Qe3xd4+ Bc5xd4
24 02:03 132,442,620 1,071,290 -7.73 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
24 02:04 133,670,103 1,074,069 -M54 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4
24 03:35 235,598,022 1,091,858 -M16 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-e1 Ke4-f3 Ke1-d2 e5-e4 Kd2-c3 e4-e3 Kc3-c4 e3-e2 Kc4xc5 e2-e1Q Kc5-d6 Qe1-e4 Kd6-c5 Qe4-e5+ Kc5-b4 Qe5-d5 Kb4-c3 Qd5-b5 Kc3-c2 Kf3-e4 Kc2-c3 Ke4-e3 Kc3-c2 Qb5-b4 Kc2-c1 Ke3-d3 Kc1-d1 Qb4-d2+
24 04:00 264,831,097 1,104,129 -M16 Kd3-e2 Rd4-e4 Qe3xe4+ Kd5xe4 Ke2-e1 Ke4-f3 Ke1-d2 e5-e4 Kd2-c3 e4-e3 Kc3-c4 e3-e2 Kc4xc5 e2-e1Q Kc5-d6 Qe1-e4 Kd6-c5 Qe4-e5+ Kc5-b4 Qe5-d5 Kb4-c3 Qd5-b5 Kc3-c2 Kf3-e4 Kc2-c3 Ke4-e3 Kc3-c2 Qb5-b4 Kc2-c1 Ke3-d3 Kc1-d1 Qb4-d2+

Both positions are draws. Please consult tablebases: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

[zullil]

The second position is mate in 14, according to tablebases.

[pichy]

This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

In the first position after several moves all that black has to do is to force the position into this new one and it will be mate in 14

[d]8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 2 1

Both positions are draws. Please consult tablebases: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

According to tablebases, your top position is a draw. So Black cannot force White into your second position.

Remember what you say about the previous position below that according to the database there were better moves than that one subjected by Saavevra, but since we are not suppose to use tablebase when I played the initial position versus Komodo the engine selected the exact moves recommended by Saavedra and I mated Komodo. Therefore. you can’t say that since the tablebase saw this new position as a draw that Black cannot force White into the second position. Remember that we are supposed to see what engines do without using TB.

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 20&t=43078
And here is the famous Saavedra ending study game that I played versus Komodo:

[Event " Rook vs Pawn-Ending"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.03.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Pichy"]
[Black "Komodo3-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c7 Rd6+ 2. Kb5 Rd5+ 3. Kb4 Rd4+ 4. Kb3 Rd3+ 5. Kc2 Rd4 6. c8=R Rd2+ 7.
Kxd2 Kb2 8. Rc3 Kb1 9. Rb3+ Ka1 10. Kc3 Ka2 {Black resigns} 11. Kc2 Ka1
{Black resigns} 12. Ra3# *

[zullil]

This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

In the first position after several moves all that black has to do is to force the position into this new one and it will be mate in 14

[d]8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 2 1

Both positions are draws. Please consult tablebases: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

According to tablebases, your top position is a draw. So Black cannot force White into your second position.

Therefore. you can’t say that since the tablebase saw this new position as a draw that Black cannot force White into the second position. Remember that we are supposed to see what engines do without using TB.

What does the word "force" mean to you?

[pichy]

This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

In the first position after several moves all that black has to do is to force the position into this new one and it will be mate in 14

[d]8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 2 1

Both positions are draws. Please consult tablebases: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

According to tablebases, your top position is a draw. So Black cannot force White into your second position.

Therefore. you can’t say that since the tablebase saw this new position as a draw that Black cannot force White into the second position. Remember that we are supposed to see what engines do without using TB.

What does the word "force" mean to you?

I will answer that, when you first answer what does the phrase without using tablebase means to you?

[zullil]

This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

In the first position after several moves all that black has to do is to force the position into this new one and it will be mate in 14

[d]8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 2 1

Both positions are draws. Please consult tablebases: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

According to tablebases, your top position is a draw. So Black cannot force White into your second position.

Therefore. you can’t say that since the tablebase saw this new position as a draw that Black cannot force White into the second position. Remember that we are supposed to see what engines do without using TB.

What does the word "force" mean to you?

I will answer that, when you first answer what does the phrase without using tablebase means to you?

I see now that I am wasting my time. Apparently you prefer to post false statements like

Code: Select all

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:43 pm	 
This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end 

[D]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

perhaps because you do not understand what a tablebase is.

[pichy]

This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

In the first position after several moves all that black has to do is to force the position into this new one and it will be mate in 14

[d]8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 2 1

Both positions are draws. Please consult tablebases: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

According to tablebases, your top position is a draw. So Black cannot force White into your second position.

Therefore. you can’t say that since the tablebase saw this new position as a draw that Black cannot force White into the second position. Remember that we are supposed to see what engines do without using TB.

What does the word "force" mean to you?

I will answer that, when you first answer what does the phrase without using tablebase means to you?

I see now that I am wasting my time. Apparently you prefer to post false statements like

Code: Select all

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:43 pm	 
This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end 

[D]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

perhaps because you do not understand what a tablebase is.

You are very intelligent, can I call you a genius from now on

[zullil]

This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

In the first position after several moves all that black has to do is to force the position into this new one and it will be mate in 14

[d]8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 2 1

Both positions are draws. Please consult tablebases: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

According to tablebases, your top position is a draw. So Black cannot force White into your second position.

Therefore. you can’t say that since the tablebase saw this new position as a draw that Black cannot force White into the second position. Remember that we are supposed to see what engines do without using TB.

What does the word "force" mean to you?

I will answer that, when you first answer what does the phrase without using tablebase means to you?

I see now that I am wasting my time. Apparently you prefer to post false statements like

Code: Select all

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:43 pm	 
This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end 

[D]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

perhaps because you do not understand what a tablebase is.

You are very intelligent, can I call you a genius from now on

Call me what you wish. But please stop posting false statements about positions that can be easily checked with tablebases.

You said that both of the following positions are wins for Black, but with best play by both sides, they are draws:

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

[d]8/8/4n3/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

[pichy]

This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

In the first position after several moves all that black has to do is to force the position into this new one and it will be mate in 14

[d]8/8/8/2bkp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 2 1

Both positions are draws. Please consult tablebases: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

According to tablebases, your top position is a draw. So Black cannot force White into your second position.

Therefore. you can’t say that since the tablebase saw this new position as a draw that Black cannot force White into the second position. Remember that we are supposed to see what engines do without using TB.

What does the word "force" mean to you?

I will answer that, when you first answer what does the phrase without using tablebase means to you?

I see now that I am wasting my time. Apparently you prefer to post false statements like

Code: Select all

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:43 pm	 
This ending position is not a draw like most engines evaluate it to be, Black should win at the end 

[D]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

perhaps because you do not understand what a tablebase is.

You are very intelligent, can I call you a genius from now on

Call me what you wish. But please stop posting false statements about positions that can be easily checked with tablebases.

You said that both of the following positions are wins for Black, but with best play by both sides, they are draws:

[d]8/8/3b4/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

[d]8/8/4n3/3kp3/3r4/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 7 1

If this wasn't about chess, I would post that I can jump further than you, but I am afraid that you will answer with ( I can jump much further by using a glider)