The Sorcerer's Apprentice

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

[d]r2qk2r/pp2bpp1/1n3n1p/2pP4/2P1P1b1/3Q1N2/PP1N1PPP/R1B1K2R w KQkq - 0 1

What does SF say here?

Code: Select all

info depth 42 seldepth 56 multipv 1 score cp 0 nodes 18649081346 nps 21788371 hashfull 999 tbhits 0 time 855919 pv e1g1 e8g8 b2b3 f6h5 c1b2 d8c7 e4e5 c7d7 h2h3 g4e6 d5d6 e6h3 g2h3 d7h3 d3e4 f7f5 e4e3 h3g4 g1h1 g4h3 h1g1

As said, you might simply want to continue the search from here, as in the actual game:

[d]r2q1rk1/pp2bpp1/1n3n1p/2pPN3/2P1P1b1/3Q4/PP1N1PPP/R1B2RK1 b - - 7 14

Who wants to play b3, when you have better moves like Ne5?

[lech]

Lyudmil, maybe it is that Marco Costalba, Louis Zullli and the other Stockfish's soldiers are only some chess ignorants. Whot do you want to prove before the .....

[zullil]

Lyudmil, maybe it is that Marco Costalba, Louis Zullli and the other Stockfish's soldiers are only some chess ignorants. Whot do you want to prove before the .....

I don't mind being called a "chess ignorant", but I'm not a "Stockfish soldier."

When Lyudmil demonstrates a weakness in SF, I am happy to admit it. I enjoy his posts, and have even learned a bit about chess from watching his contests against SF on my computer.

[lech]

Lyudmil, maybe it is that Marco Costalba, Louis Zullli and the other Stockfish's soldiers are only some chess ignorants. Whot do you want to prove before the .....

I don't mind being called a "chess ignorant", but I'm not a "Stockfish soldier."

When Lyudmil demonstrates a weakness in SF, I am happy to admit it. I enjoy his posts, and have even learned a bit about chess from watching his contests against SF on my computer.

I like you Lyudmil and my advice is: STOP it! If you can't programming STOP it! If you can try do it yourself, STOP it too! Here are lots of people ready to STOP you.

[michiguel]

White has 2-3 full pawns advantage above.

Do I see clearly that SF gives more than a pawn black advantage, or maybe this is just a hallucination?

This sac is very dubious, so no surprise black is favored.

Miguel

There are two lines that seem to favor black,
a) Nd6 (rather than Nb6) followed by Nxfe4, which is very tactical, and
b) after c4, Nbd7 with the idea of deploying the B to c5 and Qe7.

In the game, Black messed it up by moving the Q the K side, trapping it. There were plenty of opportunities to improve.

Miguel

Not at all, no opportunities to improve at all, white is simply winning that.

I could play this game 100 times against SF or any other engine, and black will not draw even a single game.

Then, do it, and post the pgns here.

This is known theory since the 60's. Black is most likely winning, but for sure, white will suffer. After 8. dxe4?! Nxc4 9. Qd4 the line is pretty much busted with 9.... Nd6. Then, 10. Nc3 Nfxe4 11. Nxe4 Qe7 12. O-O Nxe4 13. Re1 f5 14. Nd2 and Euwe says Qc5 is -/+ However, engines believe Kd8 is even better. After 14. Nd2 Kd8 15. Nxe4 fxe4 16. Rxe4 Qf6 white is severely struggling.

If you can improve on this, please show it. However, I doubt it because the lines are pretty much forced.

Miguel

Btw., if you look at the game, this is a very nice example of the strength of long chains, but SF refuses to implement them.

I think that anyone wanting to learn very good opening theory, the best possible, in no time at all, should only take a look at all Bronstein games - much better than checking some large databases containing games of all sorts and players.

If you would like to learn opening theory, just look at Bronstein games, second best theoretician would be Fischer, and Kasparov is far behind.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Lyudmil, maybe it is that Marco Costalba, Louis Zullli and the other Stockfish's soldiers are only some chess ignorants. Whot do you want to prove before the .....

I don't mind being called a "chess ignorant", but I'm not a "Stockfish soldier."

When Lyudmil demonstrates a weakness in SF, I am happy to admit it. I enjoy his posts, and have even learned a bit about chess from watching his contests against SF on my computer.

I like you Lyudmil and my advice is: STOP it! If you can't programming STOP it! If you can try do it yourself, STOP it too! Here are lots of people ready to STOP you.

Nothing can stop me.
Only thing that can stop me is when Louis says, Let's break it. Then I will listen.

But not when people like Lanzo Nazaire and Jose Miguel Planton want me to stop.

If you really like chess knowledge and are interested in engine improvement, you would enjoy this thread and readily support me, instead of joining the group of people wanting to stop me.

[d]r2q1rk1/pp2bpp1/1n3n1p/2pPN3/2P1P1b1/3Q4/PP1N1PPP/R1B2RK1 b - - 7 14

Here is the main quiet position from the game again, we leave the tactical complications for the time being aside.

Claim is: white is better or even winning.

If Louis is not interested in analysing this, then we stop it here, but if Lanzo tells me to stop, I surely won't.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

This game is unbelievable, much better than the games Carlsen and Anand play.

They knew to play in the old days, especially in 1950-1970.

Pity that wonderful competition has already long gone.

White wins after Ne5, no doubt about that, but SF seemingly still does not see it...

[zullil]

[d]r2q1rk1/pp2bpp1/1n3n1p/2pPN3/2P1P1b1/3Q4/PP1N1PPP/R1B2RK1 b - - 7 14

Here is the main quiet position from the game again, we leave the tactical complications for the time being aside.

Claim is: white is better or even winning.

According to SF, Black has already squandered the large advantage he would have had with 9...Nd6 instead of 9...Nb6.

That said, in this position SF would play Bh5 with evaluation 0.
[d]r2q1rk1/pp2bpp1/1n3n1p/2pPN2b/2P1P3/3Q4/PP1N1PPP/R1B2RK1 w - - 8 15

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

[d]r2q1rk1/pp2bpp1/1n3n1p/2pPN3/2P1P1b1/3Q4/PP1N1PPP/R1B2RK1 b - - 7 14

Here is the main quiet position from the game again, we leave the tactical complications for the time being aside.

Claim is: white is better or even winning.

According to SF, Black has already squandered the large advantage he would have had with 9...Nd6 instead of 9...Nb6.

That said, in this position SF would play Bh5 with evaluation 0.
[d]r2q1rk1/pp2bpp1/1n3n1p/2pPN2b/2P1P3/3Q4/PP1N1PPP/R1B2RK1 w - - 8 15

f4

[d]r2q1rk1/pp2bpp1/1n3n1p/2pPN2b/2P1PP2/3Q4/PP1N2PP/R1B2RK1 b - f3 0 2

[zullil]

f4

[d]r2q1rk1/pp2bpp1/1n3n1p/2pPN2b/2P1PP2/3Q4/PP1N2PP/R1B2RK1 b - f3 0 2

f4 was expected by SF. It plays Nfd7 with evaluation 0.
[d]r2q1rk1/pp1nbpp1/1n5p/2pPN2b/2P1PP2/3Q4/PP1N2PP/R1B2RK1 w - - 1 16