Sorry, George, but better late than never

[bob]

<sigh>

It is always "I know a guy, but I can't mention his name, but he is an expert and he said ..."

You've been predicting doom for those of us investigating Vas since it started. You were right about the doom, but not about the recipient. Not a soul is worried about how this was handled, there is too much science and experience involved. Is your "guy" really better than people like Ken Thompson? _really_?

Didn't think so...

The only thing left open is whether the FSF will jump in after reviewing the report themselves...

Your bullshit doesnt even past the smell test. You are not the first tenured phd who thought God put him in charge of the world. Like I said, hang around. We're gonna have some fun with this. And by the way, the ruling that a person(s) make is only as good as the crapola they were sucked into looking at. All I see is a tired, vengeful, jealous old man.

That's because you are looking in a mirror, not at me. But that is your problem. I doubt Vas thinks this is "fun". And it is unfortunate that things reached this point. But there will be _zero_ repercussions from this. Because facts are facts, even if you don't understand them. I've been "hanging around" for over 40 years. I don't think that will stop any time soon...

Funny maybe, in a way, that I have to come close to pinching myself to keep from feeling sorry for you. Again, all I see in you is a hate filled, vengeful, jealous and biased old man who feels quite comfortable in the sheltered world of academia and forums. And doesnt, never have, and never will venture out from your little shelter into the real world where people dont give a goddam who you are, and are not the least bit impressed with you. Probably is best for you to stay in places like this where you have your little group that follows every little thing you say and salivate at the chance to talk with you. And that is not saliva you see coming out of my mouth when you speak.

If there is any one thing I don't need from you, it is "pity." You make asinine statements, "I know a guy but can't mention his name" or "I know a judge..." or "I know somebody important..." All a crock. You have told me and others, many times, that this investigation would blow up in our faces. Hasn't happened yet. Don't expect it to in the future either. If you can't accept the truth, there's a word for that. "delusional". But the report "is the truth". And the verdict was reasonable considering the guilty party chose to ignore the entire process and offer no defense of any kind...

A lack of interest on his part does not constitute a lack of honesty on my part.

In the first place, you would do well to listen to Dann Corbit about all this. You might learn something. And you are dead in the water wrong. I said the most likely scenario in this deal would be liars, I cant say jealous peers, because it is doubtful he has any. So I will leave it as jealous. And people with little or no character involved in the proceedings. So dont come back in my face with your gloating and bloating. Again, read Corbit's threads. Any proceeding that was fair and not loaded with as many Vas haters as you guys could find- it would have been entirely different. And dont expect me to buy your answer that you didnt have anything to do with picking the judges. That is a blatant lie. But it wouldnt matter who put them there in the end. You should be proud of your little group. You have all made a mockery of the legal system. I knew you werent above it, but a couple really surprised me. I thought they had at least a bit of character. Dann is the only one I have read who is dead on with every statement. Maybe Dann is as sick of the way you operate as I am. Who knows. But in the end Dann is right. This was a terrible travesty of justice. You should be proud of yourself.

The judges were the ICGA board + president. You don't follow discussions very well, do you? This is not a "travesty of justice". It is "justice well-served." The acts of Vas are reprehensible, to anyone that competes fairly....

of course, that might be beyond your ability to understand. You do have to walk the walk first, before you can understand why the rules are so important to the participants. And remember, these rules were formulated _by_ the participants..

In your mind, apparently, this is a conspiracy. Never mind the data that was presented, all the discussions about how wrong this was, the people involved, from a hero of mine that did the original Unix operating system, to many past but no longer active computer chess participants. Yep. One large conspiracy. Nothing to do with rules. With Ethics. With honesty and honor. Just a giant conspiracy. At least in your world. You might wonder why there are so few that feel as you do. There is an obvious answer. You just have to look for it and think about it.

You may really believe all the bullshit you are bloviating about. Listen carefully_ (see, i can use uppercase on the dash, too)__ If Vas is going to be held to this litmus test- then each and every commercial programmer should have to do the same. With Dann Corbit, or at least someone with as much character as he has, setting the parameters each programmer must follow. Lets go that route, and see how long it is before your bubble bursts. When all those results were in, some bright programmer is going to say everything was fine until Bob Hyatt had to open his big mouth.

Your implication being that _everyone_ cheats by copying the code of others? I can only speak for myself, where I say "no". And for Vas, where I say "yes". Of course there are a ton of copiers when you take all the robo derivatives, but they are already known and irrelevant as far as the ICGA goes... Anyone can investigate anything they want. Doesn't bother me. If others are guilty, they can take the fall as well. Fair competition is a lot of fun. Unfair is not.

[bob]

<sigh>

It is always "I know a guy, but I can't mention his name, but he is an expert and he said ..."

You've been predicting doom for those of us investigating Vas since it started. You were right about the doom, but not about the recipient. Not a soul is worried about how this was handled, there is too much science and experience involved. Is your "guy" really better than people like Ken Thompson? _really_?

Didn't think so...

The only thing left open is whether the FSF will jump in after reviewing the report themselves...

Your bullshit doesnt even past the smell test. You are not the first tenured phd who thought God put him in charge of the world. Like I said, hang around. We're gonna have some fun with this. And by the way, the ruling that a person(s) make is only as good as the crapola they were sucked into looking at. All I see is a tired, vengeful, jealous old man.

That's because you are looking in a mirror, not at me. But that is your problem. I doubt Vas thinks this is "fun". And it is unfortunate that things reached this point. But there will be _zero_ repercussions from this. Because facts are facts, even if you don't understand them. I've been "hanging around" for over 40 years. I don't think that will stop any time soon...

Funny maybe, in a way, that I have to come close to pinching myself to keep from feeling sorry for you. Again, all I see in you is a hate filled, vengeful, jealous and biased old man who feels quite comfortable in the sheltered world of academia and forums. And doesnt, never have, and never will venture out from your little shelter into the real world where people dont give a goddam who you are, and are not the least bit impressed with you. Probably is best for you to stay in places like this where you have your little group that follows every little thing you say and salivate at the chance to talk with you. And that is not saliva you see coming out of my mouth when you speak.

If there is any one thing I don't need from you, it is "pity." You make asinine statements, "I know a guy but can't mention his name" or "I know a judge..." or "I know somebody important..." All a crock. You have told me and others, many times, that this investigation would blow up in our faces. Hasn't happened yet. Don't expect it to in the future either. If you can't accept the truth, there's a word for that. "delusional". But the report "is the truth". And the verdict was reasonable considering the guilty party chose to ignore the entire process and offer no defense of any kind...

A lack of interest on his part does not constitute a lack of honesty on my part.

In the first place, you would do well to listen to Dann Corbit about all this. You might learn something. And you are dead in the water wrong. I said the most likely scenario in this deal would be liars, I cant say jealous peers, because it is doubtful he has any. So I will leave it as jealous. And people with little or no character involved in the proceedings. So dont come back in my face with your gloating and bloating. Again, read Corbit's threads. Any proceeding that was fair and not loaded with as many Vas haters as you guys could find- it would have been entirely different. And dont expect me to buy your answer that you didnt have anything to do with picking the judges. That is a blatant lie. But it wouldnt matter who put them there in the end. You should be proud of your little group. You have all made a mockery of the legal system. I knew you werent above it, but a couple really surprised me. I thought they had at least a bit of character. Dann is the only one I have read who is dead on with every statement. Maybe Dann is as sick of the way you operate as I am. Who knows. But in the end Dann is right. This was a terrible travesty of justice. You should be proud of yourself.

What is with you anyway? You have nothing to say. Your strawman if you could call it that has nothing at all to do with the case. You only attack reasonable people who did what they had to do. You don't like the outcome so you attack many good people involved in computer chess for decades. Nothing will apperantly let you accept the facts and you still wouldn't if it went all the way to the Supreme Court,

Vas could have defended himself, he never tried. When the ICGA ask for you to show your source code you do it. That's the rules and is an offence not to comply. Vas brought it upon himself.

On;y a fool would keep ranting at this point.

Well if it floats your boat, read all the threads and posts that Dann Corbit has written on the subject. You have heard of Dann, havent you? Then come back and tell me where our opinions differ on this subject- his and mine. I might add that it is probably not a good idea in your thread to allude that he could possibly be a fool, also.

I think Dann is beginning to come back to the reality side of this, so you might not be counting him on your side much longer... There was a lot about ICGA events, rules, and the investigation that he was unaware of. Enlightenment cures a lot of evils...

[geots]

<sigh>

It is always "I know a guy, but I can't mention his name, but he is an expert and he said ..."

You've been predicting doom for those of us investigating Vas since it started. You were right about the doom, but not about the recipient. Not a soul is worried about how this was handled, there is too much science and experience involved. Is your "guy" really better than people like Ken Thompson? _really_?

Didn't think so...

The only thing left open is whether the FSF will jump in after reviewing the report themselves...

Your bullshit doesnt even past the smell test. You are not the first tenured phd who thought God put him in charge of the world. Like I said, hang around. We're gonna have some fun with this. And by the way, the ruling that a person(s) make is only as good as the crapola they were sucked into looking at. All I see is a tired, vengeful, jealous old man.

That's because you are looking in a mirror, not at me. But that is your problem. I doubt Vas thinks this is "fun". And it is unfortunate that things reached this point. But there will be _zero_ repercussions from this. Because facts are facts, even if you don't understand them. I've been "hanging around" for over 40 years. I don't think that will stop any time soon...

Funny maybe, in a way, that I have to come close to pinching myself to keep from feeling sorry for you. Again, all I see in you is a hate filled, vengeful, jealous and biased old man who feels quite comfortable in the sheltered world of academia and forums. And doesnt, never have, and never will venture out from your little shelter into the real world where people dont give a goddam who you are, and are not the least bit impressed with you. Probably is best for you to stay in places like this where you have your little group that follows every little thing you say and salivate at the chance to talk with you. And that is not saliva you see coming out of my mouth when you speak.

If there is any one thing I don't need from you, it is "pity." You make asinine statements, "I know a guy but can't mention his name" or "I know a judge..." or "I know somebody important..." All a crock. You have told me and others, many times, that this investigation would blow up in our faces. Hasn't happened yet. Don't expect it to in the future either. If you can't accept the truth, there's a word for that. "delusional". But the report "is the truth". And the verdict was reasonable considering the guilty party chose to ignore the entire process and offer no defense of any kind...

A lack of interest on his part does not constitute a lack of honesty on my part.

In the first place, you would do well to listen to Dann Corbit about all this. You might learn something. And you are dead in the water wrong. I said the most likely scenario in this deal would be liars, I cant say jealous peers, because it is doubtful he has any. So I will leave it as jealous. And people with little or no character involved in the proceedings. So dont come back in my face with your gloating and bloating. Again, read Corbit's threads. Any proceeding that was fair and not loaded with as many Vas haters as you guys could find- it would have been entirely different. And dont expect me to buy your answer that you didnt have anything to do with picking the judges. That is a blatant lie. But it wouldnt matter who put them there in the end. You should be proud of your little group. You have all made a mockery of the legal system. I knew you werent above it, but a couple really surprised me. I thought they had at least a bit of character. Dann is the only one I have read who is dead on with every statement. Maybe Dann is as sick of the way you operate as I am. Who knows. But in the end Dann is right. This was a terrible travesty of justice. You should be proud of yourself.

What is with you anyway? You have nothing to say. Your strawman if you could call it that has nothing at all to do with the case. You only attack reasonable people who did what they had to do. You don't like the outcome so you attack many good people involved in computer chess for decades. Nothing will apperantly let you accept the facts and you still wouldn't if it went all the way to the Supreme Court,

Vas could have defended himself, he never tried. When the ICGA ask for you to show your source code you do it. That's the rules and is an offence not to comply. Vas brought it upon himself.

On;y a fool would keep ranting at this point.

Well if it floats your boat, read all the threads and posts that Dann Corbit has written on the subject. You have heard of Dann, havent you? Then come back and tell me where our opinions differ on this subject- his and mine. I might add that it is probably not a good idea in your thread to allude that he could possibly be a fool, also.

I think Dann is beginning to come back to the reality side of this, so you might not be counting him on your side much longer... There was a lot about ICGA events, rules, and the investigation that he was unaware of. Enlightenment cures a lot of evils...

So you think Dann is ok now with having programmers as judge and jury, or anywhere near. Wont happen. Nelson hit the nail on the head also. You are easy to see thru.

[bob]

<sigh>

It is always "I know a guy, but I can't mention his name, but he is an expert and he said ..."

You've been predicting doom for those of us investigating Vas since it started. You were right about the doom, but not about the recipient. Not a soul is worried about how this was handled, there is too much science and experience involved. Is your "guy" really better than people like Ken Thompson? _really_?

Didn't think so...

The only thing left open is whether the FSF will jump in after reviewing the report themselves...

Your bullshit doesnt even past the smell test. You are not the first tenured phd who thought God put him in charge of the world. Like I said, hang around. We're gonna have some fun with this. And by the way, the ruling that a person(s) make is only as good as the crapola they were sucked into looking at. All I see is a tired, vengeful, jealous old man.

That's because you are looking in a mirror, not at me. But that is your problem. I doubt Vas thinks this is "fun". And it is unfortunate that things reached this point. But there will be _zero_ repercussions from this. Because facts are facts, even if you don't understand them. I've been "hanging around" for over 40 years. I don't think that will stop any time soon...

Funny maybe, in a way, that I have to come close to pinching myself to keep from feeling sorry for you. Again, all I see in you is a hate filled, vengeful, jealous and biased old man who feels quite comfortable in the sheltered world of academia and forums. And doesnt, never have, and never will venture out from your little shelter into the real world where people dont give a goddam who you are, and are not the least bit impressed with you. Probably is best for you to stay in places like this where you have your little group that follows every little thing you say and salivate at the chance to talk with you. And that is not saliva you see coming out of my mouth when you speak.

If there is any one thing I don't need from you, it is "pity." You make asinine statements, "I know a guy but can't mention his name" or "I know a judge..." or "I know somebody important..." All a crock. You have told me and others, many times, that this investigation would blow up in our faces. Hasn't happened yet. Don't expect it to in the future either. If you can't accept the truth, there's a word for that. "delusional". But the report "is the truth". And the verdict was reasonable considering the guilty party chose to ignore the entire process and offer no defense of any kind...

A lack of interest on his part does not constitute a lack of honesty on my part.

In the first place, you would do well to listen to Dann Corbit about all this. You might learn something. And you are dead in the water wrong. I said the most likely scenario in this deal would be liars, I cant say jealous peers, because it is doubtful he has any. So I will leave it as jealous. And people with little or no character involved in the proceedings. So dont come back in my face with your gloating and bloating. Again, read Corbit's threads. Any proceeding that was fair and not loaded with as many Vas haters as you guys could find- it would have been entirely different. And dont expect me to buy your answer that you didnt have anything to do with picking the judges. That is a blatant lie. But it wouldnt matter who put them there in the end. You should be proud of your little group. You have all made a mockery of the legal system. I knew you werent above it, but a couple really surprised me. I thought they had at least a bit of character. Dann is the only one I have read who is dead on with every statement. Maybe Dann is as sick of the way you operate as I am. Who knows. But in the end Dann is right. This was a terrible travesty of justice. You should be proud of yourself.

What is with you anyway? You have nothing to say. Your strawman if you could call it that has nothing at all to do with the case. You only attack reasonable people who did what they had to do. You don't like the outcome so you attack many good people involved in computer chess for decades. Nothing will apperantly let you accept the facts and you still wouldn't if it went all the way to the Supreme Court,

Vas could have defended himself, he never tried. When the ICGA ask for you to show your source code you do it. That's the rules and is an offence not to comply. Vas brought it upon himself.

On;y a fool would keep ranting at this point.

Well if it floats your boat, read all the threads and posts that Dann Corbit has written on the subject. You have heard of Dann, havent you? Then come back and tell me where our opinions differ on this subject- his and mine. I might add that it is probably not a good idea in your thread to allude that he could possibly be a fool, also.

I think Dann is beginning to come back to the reality side of this, so you might not be counting him on your side much longer... There was a lot about ICGA events, rules, and the investigation that he was unaware of. Enlightenment cures a lot of evils...

So you think Dann is ok now with having programmers as judge and jury, or anywhere near. Wont happen. Nelson hit the nail on the head also. You are easy to see thru.

Programmers were not "judge and jury". But if it were so, yes, it is ok. Programmers formed the ICGA. We wrote the rules. We wrote the programs (supposedly). We organized the early competitions. This was all about programmers. And we tried to refine the rules, as years passed and transgressions were noticed. Why _wouldn't_ we want programmers (or former programmers) to handle this. It is _our_ organization, after all...

When all you have left is personal insults, that pretty well says that the arguments are over and you have nothing factual left to offer. Our report stands on its own. The verdict was reached by the ICGA. The story is over. Until the next protest comes up, where it will start again...

[geots]

<sigh>

It is always "I know a guy, but I can't mention his name, but he is an expert and he said ..."

You've been predicting doom for those of us investigating Vas since it started. You were right about the doom, but not about the recipient. Not a soul is worried about how this was handled, there is too much science and experience involved. Is your "guy" really better than people like Ken Thompson? _really_?

Didn't think so...

The only thing left open is whether the FSF will jump in after reviewing the report themselves...

Your bullshit doesnt even past the smell test. You are not the first tenured phd who thought God put him in charge of the world. Like I said, hang around. We're gonna have some fun with this. And by the way, the ruling that a person(s) make is only as good as the crapola they were sucked into looking at. All I see is a tired, vengeful, jealous old man.

That's because you are looking in a mirror, not at me. But that is your problem. I doubt Vas thinks this is "fun". And it is unfortunate that things reached this point. But there will be _zero_ repercussions from this. Because facts are facts, even if you don't understand them. I've been "hanging around" for over 40 years. I don't think that will stop any time soon...

Funny maybe, in a way, that I have to come close to pinching myself to keep from feeling sorry for you. Again, all I see in you is a hate filled, vengeful, jealous and biased old man who feels quite comfortable in the sheltered world of academia and forums. And doesnt, never have, and never will venture out from your little shelter into the real world where people dont give a goddam who you are, and are not the least bit impressed with you. Probably is best for you to stay in places like this where you have your little group that follows every little thing you say and salivate at the chance to talk with you. And that is not saliva you see coming out of my mouth when you speak.

If there is any one thing I don't need from you, it is "pity." You make asinine statements, "I know a guy but can't mention his name" or "I know a judge..." or "I know somebody important..." All a crock. You have told me and others, many times, that this investigation would blow up in our faces. Hasn't happened yet. Don't expect it to in the future either. If you can't accept the truth, there's a word for that. "delusional". But the report "is the truth". And the verdict was reasonable considering the guilty party chose to ignore the entire process and offer no defense of any kind...

A lack of interest on his part does not constitute a lack of honesty on my part.

In the first place, you would do well to listen to Dann Corbit about all this. You might learn something. And you are dead in the water wrong. I said the most likely scenario in this deal would be liars, I cant say jealous peers, because it is doubtful he has any. So I will leave it as jealous. And people with little or no character involved in the proceedings. So dont come back in my face with your gloating and bloating. Again, read Corbit's threads. Any proceeding that was fair and not loaded with as many Vas haters as you guys could find- it would have been entirely different. And dont expect me to buy your answer that you didnt have anything to do with picking the judges. That is a blatant lie. But it wouldnt matter who put them there in the end. You should be proud of your little group. You have all made a mockery of the legal system. I knew you werent above it, but a couple really surprised me. I thought they had at least a bit of character. Dann is the only one I have read who is dead on with every statement. Maybe Dann is as sick of the way you operate as I am. Who knows. But in the end Dann is right. This was a terrible travesty of justice. You should be proud of yourself.

What is with you anyway? You have nothing to say. Your strawman if you could call it that has nothing at all to do with the case. You only attack reasonable people who did what they had to do. You don't like the outcome so you attack many good people involved in computer chess for decades. Nothing will apperantly let you accept the facts and you still wouldn't if it went all the way to the Supreme Court,

Vas could have defended himself, he never tried. When the ICGA ask for you to show your source code you do it. That's the rules and is an offence not to comply. Vas brought it upon himself.

On;y a fool would keep ranting at this point.

Well if it floats your boat, read all the threads and posts that Dann Corbit has written on the subject. You have heard of Dann, havent you? Then come back and tell me where our opinions differ on this subject- his and mine. I might add that it is probably not a good idea in your thread to allude that he could possibly be a fool, also.

I think Dann is beginning to come back to the reality side of this, so you might not be counting him on your side much longer... There was a lot about ICGA events, rules, and the investigation that he was unaware of. Enlightenment cures a lot of evils...

So you think Dann is ok now with having programmers as judge and jury, or anywhere near. Wont happen. Nelson hit the nail on the head also. You are easy to see thru.

Programmers were not "judge and jury". But if it were so, yes, it is ok. Programmers formed the ICGA. We wrote the rules. We wrote the programs (supposedly). We organized the early competitions. This was all about programmers. And we tried to refine the rules, as years passed and transgressions were noticed. Why _wouldn't_ we want programmers (or former programmers) to handle this. It is _our_ organization, after all...

When all you have left is personal insults, that pretty well says that the arguments are over and you have nothing factual left to offer. Our report stands on its own. The verdict was reached by the ICGA. The story is over. Until the next protest comes up, where it will start again...

I agree with Nelson. Damn shame for a man who could have been somebody.

[bob]

There you go...