Something very strange [Strelka]

[Albert Silver]

You should be careful about your assumptions. What I wrote is fact.

Albert

For you -- may be.
For me and others here who didn't see this correspondence what you wrote is a statement.

Regards,
Geno

Sorry Albert, but I agree with Geno.

I understand. I have been following this for some time, however I am not at liberty to share this correspondence. Suffice it to say, that Vasik and Osipov aren't the only ones privy to it, and I don't mean me.

Albert

[Nid Hogge]

I assume the correspondence was electronic. And I have already seen fake correspondence, that is, the sender pretending he is someone else. I am sure with a little help I could produce a correspondence between Osipov and myself.

I may be sceptic but I simply don't see why I should trust Rajlich's statements more than those of Osipov. I don't know either of them and I am sure that hardly anyone here knows them adequately. All discussion should remain on the area of facts, not opinions and claims.

You can believe whoever you wish Gabor. You choose to believe a shady figure that no one really knows and appeard on one claimed picture, But I rather take the word of an International Master who proved to be honest on several cases, and has appeard multiple times on Computer Chess tournaments and other events so people could get solid imperssion of him and at least confirm he's a real person. Thats why. Well, at least for me.

One really has to wonder where all this negativity for Rajlich comes from, and why he's the one considered unreliable, and not the other way around.

[gerold]

I assume the correspondence was electronic. And I have already seen fake correspondence, that is, the sender pretending he is someone else. I am sure with a little help I could produce a correspondence between Osipov and myself.

I may be sceptic but I simply don't see why I should trust Rajlich's statements more than those of Osipov. I don't know either of them and I am sure that hardly anyone here knows them adequately. All discussion should remain on the area of facts, not opinions and claims.

You can believe whoever you wish Gabor. You choose to believe a shady figure that no one really knows and appeard on one claimed picture, But I rather take the word of an International Master who proved to be honest on several cases, and has appeard multiple times on Computer Chess tournaments and other events so people could get solid imperssion of him and at least confirm he's a real person. Thats why. Well, at least for me.

One really has to wonder where all this negativity for Rajlich comes from, and why he's the one considered unreliable, and not the other way around.

Thats the price one has to pay when at the top. He has the
best chess computer program going.

Gerold.

[GenoM]

One really has to wonder where all this negativity for Rajlich comes from, and why he's the one considered unreliable, and not the other way around.

Thats the price one has to pay when at the top. He has the
best chess computer program going.

Gerold.

It's simply not true. Shredder and SMK were on the top for long time and there wasn't any "negativity" to him.
Ask yourselves why.

[Rolf]

One really has to wonder where all this negativity for Rajlich comes from, and why he's the one considered unreliable, and not the other way around.

Thats the price one has to pay when at the top. He has the
best chess computer program going.

Gerold.

It's simply not true. Shredder and SMK were on the top for long time and there wasn't any "negativity" to him.
Ask yourselves why.

Give me your two most important reasons, please. Who could have something against Vasik? Where did he misbehave or such some?

[ozziejoe]

Evgenii, your question (implying vas is unethical) again does not constitute evidence that Vas has done something wrong. It does not matter how many implicit ad-hominum attacks you make. It does not matter how certain you seem to be that rybka is a clone, nor do your sacastic comments directed at people who disagree with you. None of this will ever consitute evidence.

The author of strelka has admited to decompiling rybka and doing things I think are totally unethical. the author of the engine admiting guilt must count as some evidence

What do they call an unsubstantiated attack on somebody that might hurt their ability to make a living? is this libel or slander?


best
J

[Rolf]

Evengi, your question (implying vas is unethical) again does not constitute evidence that Vas has done something wrong. It does not matter how many implicit ad-hominum attacks you make. It does not matter how certain you seem to be that rybka is a clone, nor do your sacastic comments directed at people who disagree with you. None of this will ever consitute evidence.

The author of strelka has admited to decompiling rybka and doing things I think are totally unethical. the author of the engine admiting guilt must count as some evidence

What do they call an unsubstantiated attack on somebody that might hurt their ability to make a living? is this libel or slander?


best
J

Yes, if your logic would be understood by such people, we didnt have the actual conflict.

As I said earlier, those who commit character assassination against the best programmer who has never done anything wrong against whoever, and then worship someone who has a pseudo identity without any substance, someone who blackmailed Vas, someone who hides, these people who still want to be part of the computerchess community must be banned and forbidden to participate in the different activity groups. It should be clarified that contact with supporters of this anonymous O should be discriminated as unethical. Perhaps then after a while these people realise what they are doing all the time. So, something should be done by all well-meaning people in the community.

In the meantime I read that O begins to prepare his defense. He denies of ever having blackmailed Vas. But this is in vain. Alone to contact such a successful author and then informing or proposing him to look at his own source code, and then perhaps reacting in panic, this alone shows the evil character of these anonymous people. There is no need to present a paper where the term is printed on the front ""that is a blackmail"" so that halfway intelligent people come to the conclusiopn that yes, this is evil blackmail. I doubt without having evidence that such criminal behavior is allowed under the Law in Russia or neighbor states. I am practically certain that even if the Russian institutions would research this case O would get into serious troubles.

Even Kasparov could get into difficulties from a European Law angle. He should be careful in tolerating the continual and constant slander against Vasik Rajlich by his forum people.

[Alexander Schmidt]

My question is about concept:

Is only the same evaluation code in two engines sufficient to say:
"one of these engines is a clone" ?

Is only the same search function code in two engines sufficient to say:
"one of these engines is a clone" ?

I have never heard about such criterion.

For most people, a "clone" is an engine where the code or parts of the code is copied. So if one took parts of code, the word "clone" is not quite correct.

It is well known that many engines share the same move generation code, and no one claim they are clones.

If one took "only" the movegeneration of an open source engine he still has to follow the licence. That means if you use only the movegen of Fruit, you have to publish your engine under GPL with sources.

For the use of Crafty code you need the permission of Robert Hyatt, to publish the engine or participate on tournaments afaik.

Alex

[GenoM]

Evgenii, your question (implying vas is unethical)

Joseph,

what my question is implying is a pure speculation of yours. That was a re-action of untrue statement of Gerold Daniels /that the reason of "negativity" to Vas is that he's the best/.
From your post I see you asked yourself this question but, I think, you didn't liked the answer you gave.

Regards,
Geno

[GenoM]

One really has to wonder where all this negativity for Rajlich comes from, and why he's the one considered unreliable, and not the other way around.

Thats the price one has to pay when at the top. He has the
best chess computer program going.

Gerold.

It's simply not true. Shredder and SMK were on the top for long time and there wasn't any "negativity" to him.
Ask yourselves why.

Give me your two most important reasons, please. Who could have something against Vasik? Where did he misbehave or such some?

Rolf,

please do not ask question before giving me an answer of my question in the cited post above.

Geno