The Biggest Match since Kasparov v Deep Blue?

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Rybka on its 52 core Cluster has become an awesome Chess entity, probably more powerful than Deep Blue. We all know that Deep Blue defeated Kasparov. Cluster Rybka would I am sure beat any GM or other engine in a match. But can it beat any other Chess entity?

The only engine to have finished ahead of Rybka in recent times in a major tournament is Hiarcs, probably the most consistent performer on the SSDF ratings list for almost 20 years.

I am organising a match in Central London. It will be played where the public can watch as well as all the usual internet streams on Playchess and ICC etc...

The match will be a Top GM + Hiarcs v Cluster Rybka. 6 games played over a week using a Fischer time control probably 90+30 or 90+60. Hiarcs will use hardware that fits in 1 box, probably a dual Nehalem system. The GM will have access to CB10 and opening books. He will not see the Rybka opening book, the only engine he can load is Hiarcs.

I have discussed the match with Vas Rajlich who has agreed to play. I have a top GM lined up and a venue in Central London. I just need to raise a few thousand Euros to make it all happen. 3 sponsors so far have promised some cash towards the event.

Would you like to contribute? If so please get in touch with me via a Private message. This is a match that will interest the media and promote Computer Chess.

Rybka vs Pablo.

or

Rybka vs GM + Naum.

Pablo is a weak chess player,I can asure you of that....Even a 2400 program running on an average hardware will wipe the floor with him....in a 10 games match,the result will be 10-0 for the program....
Making 1-2 draws ot of 200 games is not even a good performance.....
Playing the strong chess engines running on a decent hardware has increased my playing strength more than 300 Elo....but it took me more than 8 years of persistant playing to achieve this goal....618 games at long time controls and double this number as training games....
Dr.D

[Peter Hegger]

Let me make the moves for HIARCS instead of a GM doing it. I won't charge nearly as much.
Peter

Peter+Hiarcs+Hardware+CB x GM+Hiarcs+Hardware+CB.

I think the second entity will have no difficulties to win a match.
The middlegame and the endgame will be the key to that.
And I suppose that even the opening can make some difference.
Obviously Peter can not have a high rating.
A GM is dedicated to chess since childhood, he is a professional. He has the
experience and knowledge needed to evaluate much better than an amateur,
certain positions that the engines do not understand.
Today in my profession, a software is very important. I see engineers not specialized
in calculation of structures using a software for calculation of structure with
bad results.

Hi,
Yes, I'm a weak player, 1700-1800. But my rating wouldn't matter as I'd merely be relaying moves for HIARCS.

I think Peter+HIARCS vs GM+HIARCS might very well result in a victory for my side since I'd be a consistent 3000 rather than a 3000 who makes the occasional 2700 move.
Best wishes,
Peter

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Let me make the moves for HIARCS instead of a GM doing it. I won't charge nearly as much.
Peter

Peter+Hiarcs+Hardware+CB x GM+Hiarcs+Hardware+CB.

I think the second entity will have no difficulties to win a match.
The middlegame and the endgame will be the key to that.
And I suppose that even the opening can make some difference.
Obviously Peter can not have a high rating.
A GM is dedicated to chess since childhood, he is a professional. He has the
experience and knowledge needed to evaluate much better than an amateur,
certain positions that the engines do not understand.
Today in my profession, a software is very important. I see engineers not specialized
in calculation of structures using a software for calculation of structure with
bad results.

Hi,
Yes, I'm a weak player, 1700-1800. But my rating wouldn't matter as I'd merely be relaying moves for HIARCS.

I think Peter+HIARCS vs GM+HIARCS might very well result in a victory for my side since I'd be a consistent 3000 rather than a 3000 who makes the occasional 2700 move.
Best wishes,
Peter

I was talking about Pablo who plays stonewalled positions who lives in South America
Dr.D

[mschribr]

You seem to assume that the GM is totally unprepared for the match.

I guess that it is obvious that the GM is going to train at home by playing as a team with hiarcs against Rybka and he is not going to use a strategy that gives him worse results relative to the results of hiarcs(not using worse strategy is very easy and accepting all the moves of hiarcs is one way).

Uri

He can not prepare very well if he does not have a 52 core computer.
Look at past freestyle tournaments. The weaker player wins by being a referee over 3 or 4 programs. If he had 3 engines running on 3 computers he would have a chance.
Mark

I agree that he cannot prepare very well but at least he can verify that his playing strength is not weaker than the engine and some preperation is better than nothing.

I cannot tell nothing based on free style tournaments because I know nothing about the players and their strategy and I do not care about it.

I believe that there was not enough money in the free style to convince strong GM's to participate.

Uri

The 2750 gm and 3000 hiarcs combination will play worse than just hiarcs alone. The 2750 gm will not understand the analysis of the 3000 hiarcs and so would make moves a 2750 gm would understand.

This 52 core Rybka vs gm + hiarcs match is similar to the freestyle tournaments. The winners have written articles about their strategy. The freestyle tournaments are stronger than any human tournaments.

The freestyle tournaments prize fund is $16,000, winner gets $7,000. What is prize fund of the other major tournaments like Corus, Linares and Dortmund? Remember the freestyle tournaments have no travel or hotel expenses. The entry fee for GMs is 0. The reason strong GMs don’t enter is because the level of play is too high.
Mark

[S.Taylor]

You seem to assume that the GM is totally unprepared for the match.

I guess that it is obvious that the GM is going to train at home by playing as a team with hiarcs against Rybka and he is not going to use a strategy that gives him worse results relative to the results of hiarcs(not using worse strategy is very easy and accepting all the moves of hiarcs is one way).

Uri

He can not prepare very well if he does not have a 52 core computer.
Look at past freestyle tournaments. The weaker player wins by being a referee over 3 or 4 programs. If he had 3 engines running on 3 computers he would have a chance.
Mark

I agree that he cannot prepare very well but at least he can verify that his playing strength is not weaker than the engine and some preperation is better than nothing.

I cannot tell nothing based on free style tournaments because I know nothing about the players and their strategy and I do not care about it.

I believe that there was not enough money in the free style to convince strong GM's to participate.

Uri

The 2750 gm and 3000 hiarcs combination will play worse than just hiarcs alone. The 2750 gm will not understand the analysis of the 3000 hiarcs and so would make moves a 2750 gm would understand.

This 52 core Rybka vs gm + hiarcs match is similar to the freestyle tournaments. The winners have written articles about their strategy. The freestyle tournaments are stronger than any human tournaments.

The freestyle tournaments prize fund is $16,000, winner gets $7,000. What is prize fund of the other major tournaments like Corus, Linares and Dortmund? Remember the freestyle tournaments have no travel or hotel expenses. The entry fee for GMs is 0. The reason strong GMs don’t enter is because the level of play is too high.
Mark

This sounds crazy! Do you mean that the top GM's don't have superior chess knowledge and understanding?

Just because GM's lose more, isn't that for a different reason? Isn't that because humans are more prone to make mistakes and have different states of mind and emotions, which machines don't have?
So what does that have to do with not actually understanding the computer analysis? Why wouldn't the human GM then be able to come up with the superior move, based on positional knowledge (together with checking variations for unintended blunders)?

[michiguel]

You seem to assume that the GM is totally unprepared for the match.

I guess that it is obvious that the GM is going to train at home by playing as a team with hiarcs against Rybka and he is not going to use a strategy that gives him worse results relative to the results of hiarcs(not using worse strategy is very easy and accepting all the moves of hiarcs is one way).

Uri

He can not prepare very well if he does not have a 52 core computer.
Look at past freestyle tournaments. The weaker player wins by being a referee over 3 or 4 programs. If he had 3 engines running on 3 computers he would have a chance.
Mark

I agree that he cannot prepare very well but at least he can verify that his playing strength is not weaker than the engine and some preperation is better than nothing.

I cannot tell nothing based on free style tournaments because I know nothing about the players and their strategy and I do not care about it.

I believe that there was not enough money in the free style to convince strong GM's to participate.

Uri

The 2750 gm and 3000 hiarcs combination will play worse than just hiarcs alone. The 2750 gm will not understand the analysis of the 3000 hiarcs and so would make moves a 2750 gm would understand.

Oh please... a GM has a better overall understanding than an engine.
The GM will fill all the wholes in knowledge that an engine have, particularly in the endgame or close positions, when it is needed most.
And viceversa, the GM can check all the plans to make sure that they are tactically sound.

Miguel

This 52 core Rybka vs gm + hiarcs match is similar to the freestyle tournaments. The winners have written articles about their strategy. The freestyle tournaments are stronger than any human tournaments.

The freestyle tournaments prize fund is $16,000, winner gets $7,000. What is prize fund of the other major tournaments like Corus, Linares and Dortmund? Remember the freestyle tournaments have no travel or hotel expenses. The entry fee for GMs is 0. The reason strong GMs don’t enter is because the level of play is too high.
Mark

[Uri Blass]

You seem to assume that the GM is totally unprepared for the match.

I guess that it is obvious that the GM is going to train at home by playing as a team with hiarcs against Rybka and he is not going to use a strategy that gives him worse results relative to the results of hiarcs(not using worse strategy is very easy and accepting all the moves of hiarcs is one way).

Uri

He can not prepare very well if he does not have a 52 core computer.
Look at past freestyle tournaments. The weaker player wins by being a referee over 3 or 4 programs. If he had 3 engines running on 3 computers he would have a chance.
Mark

I agree that he cannot prepare very well but at least he can verify that his playing strength is not weaker than the engine and some preperation is better than nothing.

I cannot tell nothing based on free style tournaments because I know nothing about the players and their strategy and I do not care about it.

I believe that there was not enough money in the free style to convince strong GM's to participate.

Uri

The 2750 gm and 3000 hiarcs combination will play worse than just hiarcs alone. The 2750 gm will not understand the analysis of the 3000 hiarcs and so would make moves a 2750 gm would understand.

This 52 core Rybka vs gm + hiarcs match is similar to the freestyle tournaments. The winners have written articles about their strategy. The freestyle tournaments are stronger than any human tournaments.

The freestyle tournaments prize fund is $16,000, winner gets $7,000. What is prize fund of the other major tournaments like Corus, Linares and Dortmund? Remember the freestyle tournaments have no travel or hotel expenses. The entry fee for GMs is 0. The reason strong GMs don’t enter is because the level of play is too high.
Mark

1)You assume that the GM is so stupid that he does not know that he does not know.

You forget that the GM can train at home and see if hiarcs moves are better than his moves and choose hiarcs moves in cases that he is not sure and choose his moves in cases that he is sure(and there are cases when the GM can be sure that his moves are better)

The GM also may be able to use hiarcs in a productive way for analysis.

2)Prize fund of 16,000$ is not enough for GM when you need a lot of hours to prepare when winning prize is not something sure even if they are the strongest(and it is hard to be the strongest when you compete with Vas that may have better software and better hardware.

The fact that they believe that they can play better than their software+hardware does not mean that they can play better than other people who have better software+hardware.

Freestyle is not equal software+hardware competition and participating is certainly not free if you want to win because in this case they may need to buy expensive software and also to have more than one GM in the same team to consult.

Even in that case the team of GM may have only probability of 30% to win the event that may be more than other people but not sure win.

Uri

[Uri Blass]

You seem to assume that the GM is totally unprepared for the match.

I guess that it is obvious that the GM is going to train at home by playing as a team with hiarcs against Rybka and he is not going to use a strategy that gives him worse results relative to the results of hiarcs(not using worse strategy is very easy and accepting all the moves of hiarcs is one way).

Uri

He can not prepare very well if he does not have a 52 core computer.
Look at past freestyle tournaments. The weaker player wins by being a referee over 3 or 4 programs. If he had 3 engines running on 3 computers he would have a chance.
Mark

I agree that he cannot prepare very well but at least he can verify that his playing strength is not weaker than the engine and some preperation is better than nothing.

I cannot tell nothing based on free style tournaments because I know nothing about the players and their strategy and I do not care about it.

I believe that there was not enough money in the free style to convince strong GM's to participate.

Uri

The 2750 gm and 3000 hiarcs combination will play worse than just hiarcs alone. The 2750 gm will not understand the analysis of the 3000 hiarcs and so would make moves a 2750 gm would understand.

Oh please... a GM has a better overall understanding than an engine.
The GM will fill all the wholes in knowledge that an engine have, particularly in the endgame or close positions, when it is needed most.
And viceversa, the GM can check all the plans to make sure that they are tactically sound.

Miguel

I agree that the GM can perform better than hiarcs but
there may be tactics that is too deep for the computer to see so
the GM cannot check all the plans to see that they are tactically sound.

chess programs also may find better positional moves by deeper search so the GM take the risk of missing better positional move that hiarcs can find because the GM did not give it enough time.

I assume that the GM train at home and consider all the risks so he is going to use a strategy that is productive but I think like Vasik that Rybka is a clear favourite and Cluster Rybka has probability of more than 75% to win the match.

Uri