Sven Schüle wrote:Thanks, Carlos. I took a first look at the games but I'm afraid it will be necessary for me to try to reproduce the problem on my own, since I could not find any obvious similarities between these games that were lost on time. It would have been nice to see something like "when it happens, it always happens after move 50" or so, but this is not the case.
The only common thing was that in nearly all games Surprise lost on time in won positions
Sven
Unfortunately, it is all the information I have about it. I'd like that Arena had an option to keep the debug files for each game. Anyway, Arena seems to have a bug related to time control (it is not exact) and engines with aggressive time management losses on time now and then for this reason. Not sure if it is the case with Surprise though.
OTOH, I have seen some games where engines lost won/drew games on time because they keep searching until the last ply depht. For example, Scorpio, Protector and some versions of Toga. Some engines like Crafty moves instantly when they reach a position with 4 or 5 pieces, using EGTB info, other engines like the mentioned above keep searching (showing a PLY 64 +Mate in X eval score) despite they have few seconds on the clock.
Regards,
Carlos
PS: Here some example of what I am talking about:
[Event "Test"]
[Site "HOME"]
[Date "2010.03.13"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Protector 1.3.2 x32"]
[Black "Twisted Logic 20100131"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "2200"]
[ECO "B97"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Time "17:48:06"]
[Variation "Najdorf, Poisoned Pawn, 10.e5 dxe5 11.fxe5 Nfd7 12.Bc4"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[TimeControl "60+1"]
[Termination "time forfeit"]
[PlyCount "204"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Qb6 8.
Qd2 Qxb2 9. Rb1 Qa3 10. e5 dxe5 11. fxe5 {-0.07/9 3} Nfd7 12. Be2 {-0.10/9
3} Bb4 {-0.77/11 6} 13. Rb3 {+0.05/10 3} Qa5 {-0.16/9 2} 14. a3 {-0.31/9 3}
Bc5 {+0.24/9 2} 15. Nf3 {-0.32/9 8} Nc6 {+0.49/9 2} 16. Ne4 {-0.49/8 1}
Qxd2+ {+0.57/8 2} 17. Bxd2 {-0.34/9 3} O-O {+0.72/8 2} 18. Nxc5 {-0.31/10
2} Nxc5 {+0.59/10 2} 19. Rb1 {-0.21/11 3} Rd8 {+0.64/12 3} 20. Bg5
{-0.35/11 3} Rd5 {+0.79/11 2} 21. Bc4 {-0.26/11 2} Rd7 {+0.75/12 2} 22. Be3
{-0.64/10 1} Na4 {+0.70/12 2} 23. Be2 {-0.50/10 1} Nc3 {+0.81/11 2} 24. Rb3
{-0.71/9 2} Nd5 {+0.88/12 2} 25. Bd2 {-0.45/10 1} Nde7 {+0.88/10 2} 26. Bd3
{-0.41/10 2} b5 {+0.73/10 2} 27. c4 {-0.62/9 3} Nf5 {+0.94/11 3} 28. cxb5
{-0.64/10 3} Ncd4 {+1.16/11 2} 29. Nxd4 {-1.08/10 1} Nxd4 {+1.05/10 2} 30.
Rb2 {-1.06/11 2} axb5 {+1.11/12 2} 31. Bb4 {-0.84/11 3} Nf3+ {+1.04/11 2}
32. Ke2 {-0.88/12 2} Nxe5 {+1.01/12 2} 33. Bxb5 {-0.86/11 2} Ba6 {+1.04/11
1} 34. Bxa6 {-0.88/11 2} Rxa6 {+1.04/10 1} 35. Rc1 {-0.99/11 6} f6
{+1.09/11 2} 36. Rd2 {-1.01/10 2} Rxd2+ {+1.07/10 1} 37. Kxd2 {-0.92/12 2}
Ra7 {+1.07/10 4} 38. Ke2 {-0.92/10 1} Kf7 {+1.10/12 6} 39. Rc8 {-1.03/10 4}
Rb7 {+1.13/10 1} 40. h3 {-1.08/9 0} Kg6 {+1.10/10 2} 41. Ke3 {-1.02/8 0}
Kf5 {+1.24/10 1} 42. g4+ {-1.08/9 1} Kg5 {+1.44/10 1} 43. Re8 {-1.06/9 1}
Rd7 {+1.59/10 1} 44. Ke2 {-1.14/9 1} Rd3 {+1.61/10 1} 45. Bd2+ {-1.31/10 1}
Kg6 {+1.92/12 1} 46. Bf4 {-1.55/11 1} Rxh3 {+2.04/11 1} 47. Bxe5 {-1.56/11
0} Kf7 {+2.10/10 1} 48. Rb8 {-1.54/10 1} fxe5 {+2.14/10 1} 49. a4 {-1.70/11
0} Ra3 {+2.10/10 1} 50. Rb7+ {-1.65/10 0} Kf6 {+2.10/10 1} 51. g5+
{-1.53/11 1} Kf5 {+2.09/12 3} 52. Rf7+ {-1.51/11 0} Kg4 {+2.05/12 1} 53.
Rxg7 {-1.49/12 0} Rxa4 {+2.05/11 1} 54. Rxh7 {-1.50/12 1} Kxg5 {+2.02/10 1}
55. Ke3 {-1.49/12 1} Rd4 {+2.02/10 1} 56. Re7 {-1.49/11 0} Kf6 {+2.02/11 1}
57. Rh7 {-1.49/13 1} Ra4 {+2.02/10 1} 58. Rh6+ {-1.49/12 1} Ke7 {+2.02/11
1} 59. Rh1 {-1.49/12 0} Kd6 {+2.02/10 1} 60. Rd1+ {-1.46/11 1} Kc5
{+2.03/10 1} 61. Rd8 {-1.47/11 0} Ra1 {+2.02/10 1} 62. Rc8+ {-1.49/12 1}
Kd5 {+2.02/11 1} 63. Rd8+ {-1.49/12 0} Kc6 {+2.02/11 1} 64. Rc8+ {-1.48/13
0} Kd7 {+2.02/11 1} 65. Rh8 {-1.49/13 1} Kd6 {+2.02/11 1} 66. Rd8+
{-1.49/13 0} Ke7 {+2.02/12 1} 67. Rc8 {-1.48/13 1} Ra4 {+2.02/12 1} 68. Rb8
{-1.48/13 0} Rf4 {+2.02/12 1} 69. Rb7+ {-1.49/12 0} Kf6 {+2.02/12 1} 70.
Rb2 {-1.49/12 0} Rf1 {+2.02/11 1} 71. Rh2 {-1.49/12 1} Re1+ {+2.02/10 1}
72. Kd2 {-1.50/13 1} Rb1 {+2.02/11 1} 73. Ke3 {-1.50/12 0} Rb3+ {+2.02/11
1} 74. Ke4 {-1.50/13 0} Rb4+ {+2.02/11 1} 75. Ke3 {-1.49/14 1} Rg4
{+2.02/12 1} 76. Rf2+ {-1.49/11 0} Kg6 {+2.02/13 1} 77. Rf8 {-1.49/13 0}
Ra4 {+2.02/11 1} 78. Rg8+ {-1.47/13 2} Kf6 {+2.02/12 1} 79. Rf8+ {-1.47/15
0} Kg5 {+2.02/11 1} 80. Rg8+ {-0.57/13 0} Kh6 {+0.71/10 1} 81. Re8
{-0.62/14 0} Ra6 {+0.76/11 1} 82. Ke4 {-0.63/14 1} Kg6 {+0.78/11 1} 83.
Kxe5 {-0.63/14 1} Kf7 {+0.77/10 1} 84. Rc8 {-0.63/12 0} Ra5+ {+0.77/9 1}
85. Ke4 {-0.63/13 0} Ra1 {+0.78/9 1} 86. Rc3 {-0.63/13 1} Re1+ {+0.87/9 1}
87. Re3 {-0.63/13 0} Rxe3+ {+1.98/12 1} 88. Kxe3 {0.00/43 1} Kf6 {+2.06/27
1} 89. Kf2 {0.00/50 1} Kf5 {+2.24/24 1} 90. Kf3 {0.00/57 1} e5 {+2.25/25 1}
91. Ke3 {0.00/64 1} e4 {+2.25/22 1} 92. Kd2 {0.00/64 1} Ke6 {+2.06/25 1}
93. Ke1 {0.00/64 1} Ke5 {+2.06/21 1} 94. Kd2 {0.00/64 1} Kd4 {+2.12/21 1}
95. Ke2 {0.00/64 1} Kc4 {+2.05/22 1} 96. Ke3 {0.00/64 1} Kd5 {+1.81/27 3}
97. Kd2 {0.00/64 1} Kd6 {0.00/17 2} 98. Ke1 {0.00/64 1} Ke6 {+1.56/18 0}
99. Kd2 {0.00/64 1} Kf5 {+1.63/23 2} 100. Ke1 {0.00/64 1} Kf4 {+1.63/22 1}
101. Kf2 {0.00/64 1} e3+ {+1.63/19 1} 102. Ke2 {0.00/64 1} Ke4 {+0.36/21 1}
103. ... {0-1 White forfeits on time} 0-1
[Event "Test"]
[Site "HOME"]
[Date "2010.03.13"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Protector 1.33"]
[Black "Umko 0.8"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "2200"]
[ECO "E04"]
[Opening "Catalan"]
[Time "18:26:46"]
[Variation "Open, 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.Qa4 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 Nd5"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[TimeControl "60+1"]
[Termination "time forfeit"]
[PlyCount "228"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 d5 4. Nf3 dxc4 5. Bg2 Nc6 6. Qa4 Bb4+ 7. Bd2 Nd5
8. Bxb4 Nxb4 9. O-O Rb8 10. Nc3 a6 11. Ne5 {+0.59/10 7} O-O {-0.22/10 3}
12. Bxc6 {+0.66/10 3} Nxc6 {-0.15/10 3} 13. Nxc6 {+0.73/11 2} bxc6
{-0.24/11 3} 14. Qxc4 {+0.49/11 4} Qd6 {-0.20/9 3} 15. e3 {+0.64/11 5} Rxb2
{-0.25/10 3} 16. Rab1 {+0.45/10 3} Rb6 {-0.17/10 3} 17. Rfc1 {+0.36/10 4}
Rd8 {-0.25/11 3} 18. Ne4 {+0.26/9 2} Qd5 {-0.03/11 3} 19. Qc2 {+0.29/9 2}
Bd7 {-0.02/9 3} 20. Nc5 {+0.69/9 4} Be8 {-0.17/9 3} 21. Rb3 {+0.62/8 1} a5
{-0.47/9 3} 22. Rcb1 {+0.76/8 1} Rxb3 {-0.15/9 2} 23. axb3 {+0.44/10 2} e5
{-0.14/10 2} 24. Rd1 {+0.60/10 2} f5 {-0.40/10 2} 25. Qxf5 {+0.62/11 5}
exd4 {-0.40/10 2} 26. Qxd5+ {+0.64/11 2} Rxd5 {-0.44/11 2} 27. exd4
{+0.80/12 1} Bh5 {-0.51/11 2} 28. Rd2 {+0.75/12 1} Bf3 {-0.51/13 2} 29. h4
{+0.62/13 6} Rd8 {-0.33/12 2} 30. Rd3 {+0.73/12 2} Bh5 {-0.57/12 2} 31. f3
{+0.82/11 1} Bf7 {-0.59/11 2} 32. Kf2 {+0.85/10 1} Rb8 {-0.72/11 2} 33. Ke3
{+0.84/11 2} Re8+ {-0.66/12 2} 34. Kd2 {+0.83/12 2} Rd8 {-0.69/12 2} 35.
Ke2 {+0.75/11 1} g6 {-0.71/11 2} 36. Nb7 {+0.98/11 2} Rd5 {-0.60/11 2} 37.
Kd2 {+0.96/11 1} Rb5 {-0.83/12 2} 38. Nc5 {+1.17/12 1} Bd5 {-0.90/13 2} 39.
Re3 {+1.02/11 0} Kf7 {-0.89/12 2} 40. Kc3 {+1.07/11 1} Rb8 {-0.84/12 1} 41.
f4 {+1.05/11 1} h5 {-0.86/13 1} 42. Re5 {+0.98/12 1} Rd8 {-0.87/12 1} 43.
Na6 {+1.06/12 1} Rc8 {-0.88/12 1} 44. Kc2 {+1.13/12 1} Kf6 {-0.86/13 1} 45.
Kb2 {+1.06/12 1} Kg7 {-0.88/12 1} 46. Re3 {+1.17/12 2} Kf6 {-0.86/12 1} 47.
Kc3 {+1.06/12 1} Kf5 {-0.86/13 1} 48. Re5+ {+1.10/12 1} Kf6 {-0.86/14 1}
49. Nc5 {+1.08/13 2} Rd8 {-0.86/12 1} 50. Kd3 {+1.11/11 0} Rc8 {-0.86/12 1}
51. Kd2 {+0.99/11 2} Kf7 {-0.87/12 1} 52. Re1 {+1.01/12 0} Rb8 {-0.86/13 1}
53. Kc3 {+0.98/11 1} Rd8 {-0.87/12 1} 54. Na6 {+1.10/12 2} Rc8 {-0.86/13 1}
55. Re2 {+1.10/12 0} Kf8 {-0.86/13 1} 56. Nc5 {+1.05/12 0} Kf7 {-0.86/12 1}
57. Kb2 {+1.01/12 1} Rb8 {-0.86/13 1} 58. Kc2 {+1.06/12 0} Rd8 {-0.86/12 1}
59. Re1 {+1.10/12 1} Kf6 {-0.86/12 1} 60. Kd3 {+1.04/11 1} Kf5 {-0.85/12 1}
61. Re5+ {+1.02/10 1} Kf6 {-0.86/12 1} 62. Kd2 {+0.99/12 1} Kf7 {-0.82/11
1} 63. Kc2 {+0.99/12 1} Kf6 {-0.86/12 1} 64. Kb2 {+1.06/11 1} Kf7 {-0.86/12
1} 65. Na6 {+0.99/11 0} Rd7 {-0.86/12 1} 66. Kc2 {+0.97/12 1} Kf6 {-0.86/13
1} 67. Kd3 {+1.03/12 1} Kf7 {-0.86/12 1} 68. Nc5 {+1.02/13 0} Rd8 {-0.87/12
1} 69. Re1 {+0.92/12 0} Rb8 {-0.83/11 1} 70. Ra1 {+1.09/12 0} Bxb3
{-0.84/10 0} 71. Rxa5 {+0.91/11 1} Ke7 {-0.77/10 1} 72. Ra7 {+1.02/10 0}
Kd6 {-0.65/11 0} 73. Ne4+ {+0.98/10 0} Kd7 {-0.66/11 0} 74. Kc3 {+0.89/11
1} Bd5 {-0.61/12 0} 75. Nc5+ {+0.83/11 0} Kd6 {-0.59/13 1} 76. Ra1
{+0.83/11 0} Re8 {-0.59/12 1} 77. Nb7+ {+0.67/11 1} Kd7 {-0.61/12 0} 78.
Kd3 {+0.65/11 0} Bf3 {-0.54/10 0} 79. Nc5+ {+0.74/9 0} Kd6 {-0.48/11 1} 80.
Ra5 {+0.79/10 0} Be2+ {-0.37/11 0} 81. Kc3 {+0.63/12 1} Bb5 {-0.30/11 0}
82. Ra7 {+0.46/11 1} Re3+ {-0.26/11 1} 83. Kb4 {+0.55/12 1} Bf1 {-0.33/11
0} 84. Ra5 {+0.57/11 0} Bh3 {-0.41/10 1} 85. Nb7+ {+0.32/10 0} Kd7
{-0.03/11 0} 86. Rg5 {+0.16/11 2} Bf5 {-0.52/9 1} 87. Na5 {0.00/11 1} Rd3
{0.00/12 0} 88. Kc5 {0.00/12 0} Rc3+ {0.00/13 0} 89. Kb4 {0.00/15 0} Rd3
{0.00/12 1} 90. Nb3 {0.00/11 0} Kd6 {+0.21/11 1} 91. Kc4 {0.00/12 0} Rd1
{+0.11/12 1} 92. Nc5 {0.00/12 0} Rc1+ {+0.07/11 1} 93. Kb3 {0.00/13 0} Kd5
{+0.01/10 0} 94. Nd3 {+0.21/11 0} Rh1 {-0.10/9 0} 95. Ne5 {+0.02/10 1} Be4
{0.00/9 0} 96. Kc3 {0.00/11 1} Rc1+ {0.00/10 1} 97. Kd2 {0.00/11 0} Rc2+
{+0.04/10 0} 98. Kd1 {-0.43/11 1} Rg2 {+0.09/9 1} 99. Nxg6+ {-0.41/10 1}
Kxd4 {+0.34/9 0} 100. Nf8 {-0.51/10 0} c5 {+0.13/8 1} 101. Ne6+ {-0.39/10
0} Ke3 {+0.45/10 0} 102. Kc1 {-0.48/10 0} c4 {+0.41/8 0} 103. Nc5 {-0.67/10
0} c3 {+0.49/9 0} 104. Nxe4 {-0.16/12 1} Kxe4 {+0.45/9 0} 105. Rxh5
{-0.15/13 1} Rxg3 {+0.42/9 1} 106. Rg5 {-0.15/12 2} Rh3 {+0.55/10 1} 107.
Kc2 {-0.03/11 1} Kd4 {+0.56/11 0} 108. Rg2 {-0.05/11 1} Rxh4 {+0.36/11 0}
109. Rf2 {-0.04/12 1} Ke3 {+0.10/10 0} 110. Rg2 {-0.04/10 0} Rxf4 {+0.34/10
1} 111. Kxc3 {0.00/16 0} Rf6 {+0.07/9 0} 112. Rg7 {0.00/64 2} Rc6+
{+0.55/10 0} 113. Kb3 {0.00/64 2} Rc1 {+0.55/11 1} 114. Re7+ {0.00/64 2}
Kd4 {+0.57/12 0} 115. ... {0-1 White forfeits on time} 0-1
See the eval score in Protector's last moves? They search until the last ply depth (64).
