Zangdar - petit sorcier deviendra grand

[Chessqueen]

Hello,

Many thanks for the lenghty explanation. I already got files from Zurichess. (quiet-labeled.epd, v6 and v7).
There are many things I am unfamiliar. I will go step by step, and try to understand all.
I have already read Andrew Grant paper, well, its like ancient greek

In effect, I began with the PeSTO tables, than later used the Weiss ones. They are very good, so I didn't
change for a time. But I think that now, I have to implement something if I want to test different parameters
in the evaluation.

I am a decent club player, although I don't play OTB now, age and illness came... I could put non-stupid
values for the parameters, but good ones ?? Also, Im not sure that "human" ideas in strategy fully apply
for computing. Its sure I prefer look at master games than computer games !

Philippe

I Set up Chesse-320 to Elo = 2975

[pgn][Event "?"] [Site "DESKTOP-4QNC0GS"] [Date "2024.01.07"] [Round "7"] [White "Zangdar-2.24-avx2"] [Black "Cheese-320-win"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [BlackElo "2975"] [ECO "A02"] [Opening "Bird Opening"] [Time "12:01:58"] [Variation "Symmetrical Variation"] [WhiteElo "2975"] [TimeControl "360+7"] [Termination "unterminated"] [PlyCount "137"] [WhiteType "program"] [BlackType "program"] 1. f4 f5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. b3 b6 4. Bb2 Bb7 5. e3 e6 6. g3 Be7 7. Bg2 O-O 8. O-O d5 9. c4 dxc4 10. bxc4 c5 11. Nc3 Nc6 12. Qe2 Qc8 13. Rad1 Rd8 14. d3 h6 15. Rfe1 Rb8 16. a3 a6 17. Qc2 b5 18. cxb5 axb5 19. Nxb5 Na5 20. a4 c4 21. dxc4 Qxc4 22. Rxd8+ Rxd8 23. Qxc4 Nxc4 24. Bxf6 Bxf6 25. Nfd4 Bxg2 26. Kxg2 Bxd4 27. exd4 Ra8 28. Rxe6 Rxa4 29. Nc3 Rb4 30. Nd5 Rb5 31. Rc6 Rxd5 32. Rxc4 Kf7 33. h3 h5 34. Kf3 Rb5 35. Rc3 g6 36. Ke3 Ke6 37. Kd3 Kd5 38. Ra3 Rb1 39. Ra5+ Ke6 40. Re5+ Kd7 41. Kc4 Kd6 42. g4 fxg4 43. hxg4 Rc1+ 44. Kd3 hxg4 45. Rg5 Rd1+ 46. Kc4 Rc1+ 47. Kd3 Rd1+ 48. Ke3 Re1+ 49. Kf2 Rd1 50. Rxg4 Kd5 51. Rxg6 Ke4 *[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

Hello,

Many thanks for the lenghty explanation. I already got files from Zurichess. (quiet-labeled.epd, v6 and v7).
There are many things I am unfamiliar. I will go step by step, and try to understand all.
I have already read Andrew Grant paper, well, its like ancient greek

In effect, I began with the PeSTO tables, than later used the Weiss ones. They are very good, so I didn't
change for a time. But I think that now, I have to implement something if I want to test different parameters
in the evaluation.

I am a decent club player, although I don't play OTB now, age and illness came... I could put non-stupid
values for the parameters, but good ones ?? Also, Im not sure that "human" ideas in strategy fully apply
for computing. Its sure I prefer look at master games than computer games !

Philippe

Zangdar Vs Cheese-320 Elo=2975

Rank Engine Score Za Ch S-B
1 Zangdar-2.24-avx2 11.5/20 · ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· · ===0==1====01011=11= 97.75
2 Cheese-320-win 8.5/20 ===1==0====10100=00= · ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· ·· · 97.75


20 games played / Tournament is finished

Tournament start: 2023.12.24, 07:35:27
Latest update: 2024.01.07, 20:25:21
Site/ Country: DESKTOP-4QNC0GS, United States
Level: Blitz 3/2
Hardware: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz with 15.9 GB Memory
Operating system: Windows 10 Home Home Edition (Build 9200) 64 bit
PGN-File: 1100=1600.pgn
Table created with: Arena 3.5.1

[pgn][Event "Zangdar Va Cheese-320"] [Site "DESKTOP-4QNC0GS"] [Date "2024.01.07"] [Round "20"] [White "Cheese-320-win"] [Black "Zangdar-2.24-avx2"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [BlackElo "2975"] [ECO "A41"] [Opening "Neo-Old Indian"] [Time "20:14:13"] [Variation "Wade Defence, 3.e4 Nf6"] [WhiteElo "2975"] [TimeControl "180+2"] [Termination "adjudication"] [PlyCount "157"] [WhiteType "program"] [BlackType "program"] 1. Nf3 d6 2. d4 Bg4 3. e4 Nf6 4. h3 Bh5 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8. g4 Bg6 9. Nh4 d5 10. Nxg6 hxg6 11. Bf3 c6 12. a3 a5 13. Re1 a4 14. Bf4 Nbd7 15. e5 Nh7 16. Bg2 Nb6 17. Qe2 Re8 18. Rab1 Nf8 19. Bg3 g5 20. Red1 Ng6 21. Bf1 Nc4 22. Qf3 b5 23. Kg2 Qa5 24. Bd3 Nh4+ 25. Bxh4 gxh4 26. Bxc4 bxc4 27. Na2 Rf8 28. Qf4 f6 29. Nc3 Bxa3 30. Qe3 Be7 31. exf6 Rxf6 32. g5 Rg6 33. f4 Qc7 34. Ne2 Bd6 35. Rf1 Qf7 36. Rf3 Qf5 37. Qd2 Rb8 38. Nc3 Rf8 39. Rbf1 a3 40. bxa3 Bxf4 41. Qxf4 Qxc2+ 42. R1f2 Rxf4 43. Rxc2 Rxg5+ 44. Kf2 Rxf3+ 45. Kxf3 Rg3+ 46. Kf2 Rxh3 47. Kg2 Re3 48. a4 e5 49. dxe5 d4 50. Nd1 Re1 51. Nf2 c3 52. a5 Ra1 53. Kf3 Rxa5 54. Ke4 Ra4 55. Nd3 Kf7 56. Rf2+ Ke7 57. Rg2 g5 58. Rxg5 c2 59. Rg7+ Kf8 60. Rg1 Rc4 61. e6 h3 62. Ke5 h2 63. Rf1+ Ke8 64. Kf6 c1=Q 65. Nxc1 d3 66. Nxd3 Rd4 67. Rh1 Rxd3 68. Rxh2 Rf3+ 69. Ke5 Re3+ 70. Kf5 c5 71. Rh8+ Ke7 72. Rh7+ Ke8 73. Rc7 Rf3+ 74. Ke5 Re3+ 75. Kd5 Rd3+ 76. Kc4 Rd6 77. Kxc5 Rxe6 78. Rb7 Re7 79. Rb6 {User Adjudication} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[Carbec]

Hi,

I started to tune Zangdar, but got some weird results.

Firstly, I noticed that the QueenValue was increasing a lot with iterations, and didn't seemed to stop.
So I redid the tuning, with 100000 iterations. Althought all parameters converged rapidly, I had to
wait at least 50000 iterations to see the QueenValue converge, at a very large value, like 2200+ (EG).

Is this normal ?
Also, Do I have to put the PieceValue, and the PSQT tables in the tuning ?
I noticed also that in several engines, people stop to tune at 10000 iterations;
In that case, QueenValue is not converged.

Thanks for help

Philippe

[mathmoi]

Bonjour Philippe,

I'm not an expert in engine tuning, only did it once with CLOP lots of years ago. Howerver I think that if you tune de PSQT and the piece values together you will get weird results. For exemple, the average value for a queen in the piece-square table could be -1300 and the value of a Queen need to be 2200 to compensate a real average value of 900. I'm not sure what is the prefered solution for this. You could comletely remove the piece values or rebalance the pieces values and PSQT in some ways. I would be interested to know what others do in this situation.

Bonne journée,