A PC equals to Apple MacBook Pro with chip M4 pro?

[smatovic]

Did look up some parts:

Code: Select all

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X (16 cores Zen 3)   ~325 USD
MOBO: middle class AM4 socket             ~150 USD
RAM: 2x32GB DDR4 3200                     ~150 USD
GPU: Nvidia RTX 4060 8GB                  ~350 USD
SSD: M.2 premium 2TB                      ~200 USD
Case: big tower entry                     ~150 USD
PSU: 1000W middle class                   ~150 USD
--------------------------------------------------
                                         ~1475 USD

Code: Select all

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (16 cores Zen 4)   ~500 USD
MOBO: middle class AM5 socket             ~200 USD
RAM: 2x32GB DDR5 6000                     ~225 USD
GPU: Nvidia RTX 4060 8GB                  ~350 USD
SSD: M.2 premium 2TB                      ~200 USD
Case: big tower entry                     ~150 USD
PSU: 1000W middle class                   ~150 USD
--------------------------------------------------
                                         ~1775 USD

~Half the price of the M4 Pro (w/o peripherals) and outperforms it on CPU and
GPU level by raw numbers* (in fact, half the price, double the performance).

The next GPU level is the RTX 4070++, double the performance, double the VRAM,
double the price.

You can choose to invest for some upgrade ability, like a motherboard with a
second PCIe x16 slot, better PSU and case, if you intend to add a second, or
upgrade to a high-end, GPU. If not, you can spare some money on mobo and PSU+
case.

*
https://ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd--in ... ckfish.php
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_sil ... processors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... _40_series

--
Srdja

[smatovic]

...
AMD Ryzen series scales currently up to 16 cores, if you need more then the pricier Threadripper(Pro) and Epyc step in. Ryzen Zen 3 has DDR4 and AVX2, Ryzen Zen 4 has DDR4 and AVX-512 via 2x256b, Ryzen Zen 5 has new AM5 socket with DDR5 and AVX-512 with 512b data path. ThreadripperPro and Epyc have more memory channels and PCIe lanes. Given your budget, I guess a Ryzen 7000 series is the choice.
...

Error, Ryzen Zen 4 has AM5 socket with DDR5 memory modules.

--
Srdja

[phhnguyen]

It doesn't make any sense to switch from Apple to a PC only.
You can buy a new iMac or Mac Mini or Mac Studio or MacBook...
Under 1700 USD sounds like the price for only one RTX GPU.

I need a strong computer to run continuously for very long periods, say 2-4 years (to generate some EGTBs), passing all hot summers - my house doesn’t have aircon and the temperatures may exceed 40 degrees sometimes. I’m sure a desktop computer can do that job in that condition. However, I’m unsure about an expensive laptop such as a MacBook Pro. Anyway, looks like it is not a good idea to run it continuously in the highest power for such a long time!

Having a huge RAM is another pain (a huge RAM is very necessary for EGTB generators). I can upgrade a PC to 128 GB RAM within USD 300. However, it’s a huge pain for a MacBook Pro since I need to select the highest configuration first and then pay a huge money for extra RAM, which may be 3-6 times more expensive (than that upgrade for a PC). Frankly speaking, if I don’t need more than 64 GB for EGTB generating, I don’t have to look into the PC world!

I’m still a fan of Apple and still need a laptop. For me, no Windows laptop can compare with a MacBook Pro. But if I can find a good PC for my heavy jobs, I may postpone the purchase for a while (say, 1-2 years) and pick a much cheaper MacBook Pro one.

BTW, I have been shopping but not rushing to buy. I would like to know what I can get with a given budget. Information is always good. Purchasing decisions and budgets may be changed later.

[phhnguyen]

Did look up some parts:

Code: Select all

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X (16 cores Zen 3)   ~325 USD
MOBO: middle class AM4 socket             ~150 USD
RAM: 2x32GB DDR4 3200                     ~150 USD
GPU: Nvidia RTX 4060 8GB                  ~350 USD
SSD: M.2 premium 2TB                      ~200 USD
Case: big tower entry                     ~150 USD
PSU: 1000W middle class                   ~150 USD
--------------------------------------------------
                                         ~1475 USD

Code: Select all

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (16 cores Zen 4)   ~500 USD
MOBO: middle class AM5 socket             ~200 USD
RAM: 2x32GB DDR5 6000                     ~225 USD
GPU: Nvidia RTX 4060 8GB                  ~350 USD
SSD: M.2 premium 2TB                      ~200 USD
Case: big tower entry                     ~150 USD
PSU: 1000W middle class                   ~150 USD
--------------------------------------------------
                                         ~1775 USD

~Half the price of the M4 Pro (w/o peripherals) and outperforms it on CPU and
GPU level by raw numbers* (in fact, half the price, double the performance).

The next GPU level is the RTX 4070++, double the performance, double the VRAM,
double the price.

You can choose to invest for some upgrade ability, like a motherboard with a
second PCIe x16 slot, better PSU and case, if you intend to add a second, or
upgrade to a high-end, GPU. If not, you can spare some money on mobo and PSU+
case.

*
https://ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd--in ... ckfish.php
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_sil ... processors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... _40_series

--
Srdja

It was a nice surprise since you solved my challenging problem which I thought would be hard.
I will use that as the baseline to decide on any computer purchase.
Thanks!

[phhnguyen]

And you can still consider to install a Linux on your box, Ubuntu is quite decent in regard of GPGPU and machine learning, you can run Windows executables via Wine, if not, Windows has WSL, windows subsystem for Linux.

Another surprise. I thought Windows always had higher priorities than Linux for developers, from creating hardware drivers to implementing/optimizing AI libraries. Can you tell me more?

[smatovic]

...
I’m still a fan of Apple and still need a laptop. For me, no Windows laptop can compare with a MacBook Pro. But if I can find a good PC for my heavy jobs, I may postpone the purchase for a while (say, 1-2 years) and pick a much cheaper MacBook Pro one.
...

I use a thin laptop and connect via ssh to other machines for work and chess, so you can choose your OS flavor for local work and Linux/Unix for remote work, need to be firm on the command line though.

--
Srdja

[smatovic]

And you can still consider to install a Linux on your box, Ubuntu is quite decent in regard of GPGPU and machine learning, you can run Windows executables via Wine, if not, Windows has WSL, windows subsystem for Linux.

Another surprise. I thought Windows always had higher priorities than Linux for developers, from creating hardware drivers to implementing/optimizing AI libraries. Can you tell me more?

Take a look into this thread:

Operating system for engine development?
viewtopic.php?t=79229

And the Nvidia DGX series is delivered with a customized Ubuntu Linux, so there is good Nvidia and machine learning support present:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_DGX#DGX_Station

How a setup can look like for example:

Deep Learning Workstation Setup with Ubuntu 22.04
https://sabbir.dev/article/deep-learnin ... untu-2204/

--
Srdja

[Hai]

It doesn't make any sense to switch from Apple to a PC only.
You can buy a new iMac or Mac Mini or Mac Studio or MacBook...
Under 1700 USD sounds like the price for only one RTX GPU.

I need a strong computer to run continuously for very long periods, say 2-4 years (to generate some EGTBs), passing all hot summers - my house doesn’t have aircon and the temperatures may exceed 40 degrees sometimes. I’m sure a desktop computer can do that job in that condition. However, I’m unsure about an expensive laptop such as a MacBook Pro. Anyway, looks like it is not a good idea to run it continuously in the highest power for such a long time!

Having a huge RAM is another pain (a huge RAM is very necessary for EGTB generators). I can upgrade a PC to 128 GB RAM within USD 300. However, it’s a huge pain for a MacBook Pro since I need to select the highest configuration first and then pay a huge money for extra RAM, which may be 3-6 times more expensive (than that upgrade for a PC). Frankly speaking, if I don’t need more than 64 GB for EGTB generating, I don’t have to look into the PC world!

I’m still a fan of Apple and still need a laptop. For me, no Windows laptop can compare with a MacBook Pro. But if I can find a good PC for my heavy jobs, I may postpone the purchase for a while (say, 1-2 years) and pick a much cheaper MacBook Pro one.

BTW, I have been shopping but not rushing to buy. I would like to know what I can get with a given budget. Information is always good. Purchasing decisions and budgets may be changed later.

I run my MacBook Pro 16-inch M1 MAX maxed out since a few years 24 hours @ 365 days.
Works fine without problem.
I can even use it on my legs in the hot summer.
It works great with Stockfish and LC0 in the same time.
A PC will produce much more heat. My PC room was always +20 degrees more. It was shit.
You don't need to be unsure about the expensive MacBook Pro. It's worth the money.
You're a fan of Apple + you still need a laptop = MacBook.
You can postpone the purchase for some months, because you can buy the new and much stronger M5 MAX later this year or you buy then the much cheaper M4 MAX.