about winning with odds against weak engines

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Uri Blass
Posts: 10267
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

about winning with odds against weak engines

Post by Uri Blass »

A possible try to win against weak engines is first to build emulator to weak chess engines.

If you can find the exact moves of some engine with free source code and rating of 1600 but 1000 times faster then second thing to do is to write an engine with a good evaluation that does selective search when for itself it search all moves but for the opponent only one move that is the move of the emulator.

In this case it is going to search based on known mistakes of the opponent.

I wonder what is the maximal handicap that you can use and beat the lowest CCRL engines in the CCRL rating list in this method.
lkaufman
Posts: 5960
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA

Re: about winning with odds against weak engines

Post by lkaufman »

Uri Blass wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:48 pm A possible try to win against weak engines is first to build emulator to weak chess engines.

If you can find the exact moves of some engine with free source code and rating of 1600 but 1000 times faster then second thing to do is to write an engine with a good evaluation that does selective search when for itself it search all moves but for the opponent only one move that is the move of the emulator.

In this case it is going to search based on known mistakes of the opponent.

I wonder what is the maximal handicap that you can use and beat the lowest CCRL engines in the CCRL rating list in this method.
I doubt that anyone would devote the effort needed to do that, but the general idea of simulating the opponent, especially a human one, to maximize chances in handicap play is interesting. But other than shortening the search drastically, it's not too obvious how to do that.
Komodo rules!
Chessqueen
Posts: 5576
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: about winning with odds against weak engines

Post by Chessqueen »

Uri Blass wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:48 pm A possible try to win against weak engines is first to build emulator to weak chess engines.

If you can find the exact moves of some engine with free source code and rating of 1600 but 1000 times faster then second thing to do is to write an engine with a good evaluation that does selective search when for itself it search all moves but for the opponent only one move that is the move of the emulator.

In this case it is going to search based on known mistakes of the opponent.

I wonder what is the maximal handicap that you can use and beat the lowest CCRL engines in the CCRL rating list in this method.
I would say probably at Queen Odds either of these three engines

466 Damas 9 1560 +25 −25 47.8% +17.1 17.6% 626
76.1%
467 IQ23.003 1547 +21 −21 33.6% +118.6 32.6% 854
72.6%
468 Cicada 0.1 64-bit 1536 +24 −25 44.1% +48.6 19.7% 636
65.6

[pgn][Event "Queen Odds"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.09.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "Cicada"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1536"]
[Time "07:36:43"]
[WhiteElo "3590"]
[TimeControl "60+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "151"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. e3 Nc6 2. d3 Nf6 3. a3 d5 4. Nd2 e5 5. b3 Bf5 6. Ne2 Bd6 7. g3 Qd7 8. h3
e4 9. d4 Qe7 10. c4 Qe6 11. c5 Be7 12. g4 Bg6 13. Bb2 O-O-O 14. b4 a6 15.
Nf4 Qd7 16. b5 axb5 17. Bxb5 h6 18. a4 Bh7 19. a5 g5 20. a6 b6 21. cxb6
gxf4 22. Rc1 fxe3 23. fxe3 Bd6 24. Bxc6 cxb6 25. Ba4+ Qc7 26. Rxc7+ Kxc7
27. Nb1 Bg3+ 28. Ke2 Ra8 29. Bb5 Bg6 30. Rg1 Bh4 31. Rc1+ Kd8 32. Rc6 h5
33. Rd6+ Kc7 34. Rc6+ Kb8 35. Rxb6+ Kc7 36. Rc6+ Kd8 37. Rd6+ Ke7 38. Ba3
Kf8 39. g5 Bxg5 40. Rxd5+ Kg7 41. Rxg5 Ne8 42. Bxe8 Rhxe8 43. Ra5 Kf6 44.
Nc3 Ke6 45. Nd5 Ra7 46. Bc5 Rd7 47. Nb6 Ra7 48. d5+ Kf6 49. Bd4+ Kg5 50.
d6+ f5 51. Kf2 Rf8 52. Nd5 Rd7 53. a7 Rxd6 54. Bc5 Rdd8 55. Be7+ Kh6 56.
Nf4 Rd2+ 57. Ke1 Ra8 58. Kxd2 Kg7 59. Nxg6 Kxg6 60. h4 Kf7 61. Bc5 Kg7 62.
Bd4+ Kh6 63. Rxf5 Kg6 64. Rb5 Rf8 65. Rb6+ Kh7 66. Rb8 Rf2+ 67. Kc3 Ra2 68.
a8=Q Rxa8 69. Rxa8 Kh6 70. Rf8 Kh7 71. Kc4 Kh6 72. Kd5 Kh7 73. Ke6 Kg6 74.
Ra8 Kh7 75. Kf5 Kh6 76. Rh8# 1-0[/pgn]
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5576
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: about winning with odds against weak engines

Post by Chessqueen »

Here is Dragon2 Vs a 1579 rated engine next Stockfish14 vs Casper at Queen Odds

[pgn][Event "Queen Odds"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.09.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "Casper"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1579"]
[Time "07:56:53"]
[WhiteElo "3585"]
[TimeControl "60+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "105"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d3 e5 2. e3 Nc6 3. a3 d5 4. g3 Be6 5. Ne2 Bd6 6. Bg2 f5 7. Nbc3 Nf6 8.
O-O Qd7 9. Nb5 O-O-O 10. d4 Ne7 11. a4 a6 12. Nxd6+ cxd6 13. b3 Qc7 14. Ba3
Rhe8 15. Rfb1 Rd7 16. c3 Nc6 17. b4 Ne7 18. b5 Qc4 19. Bf1 Qc7 20. bxa6
bxa6 21. dxe5 dxe5 22. a5 Nc6 23. Nc1 Nb8 24. Nd3 Ne4 25. Rb6 Rdd8 26. Nb4
Nc5 27. Rb1 e4 28. Nc2 Nbd7 29. Rxa6 Ne5 30. Nd4 Nf3+ 31. Nxf3 exf3 32.
Rbb6 Nd7 33. Ra8+ Nb8 34. Bc5 g5 35. Ba6+ Kd7 36. Bb5+ Nc6 37. Rxc6 Qxg3+
38. hxg3 Rxa8 39. Ra6+ Kc7 40. Bd6+ Kb7 41. Rb6+ Ka7 42. Bc5 Bf7 43. Rf6+
Kb8 44. Bd6+ Kc8 45. Rxf7 Rh8 46. a6 Rg8 47. Rc7+ Kd8 48. Rb7 Kc8 49. Bd7+
Kd8 50. Bc6 Re8 51. a7 Rxe3 52. Rb8+ Rxb8 53. axb8=Q# 1-0[/pgn]
Last edited by Chessqueen on Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5576
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: about winning with odds against weak engines

Post by Chessqueen »

462 Casper rev4 64-bit 1579 +24 −24 50.2% −2.6 23.9%

[pgn][Event "Queen Odds"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.09.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Casper"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1579"]
[Time "08:16:41"]
[WhiteElo "3600"]
[TimeControl "60+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "95"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Nf3 d5 2. e3 Bf5 3. Bd3 Bxd3 4. cxd3 Nc6 5. O-O Nb4 6. Ne1 e5 7. b3 Nf6
8. d4 exd4 9. exd4 c5 10. dxc5 Bxc5 11. Ba3 Bd4 12. Nc3 Nc6 13. Nf3 Qa5 14.
Rae1+ Kd7 15. Nxd4 Nxd4 16. Be7 Ne4 17. b4 Qa3 18. Nxe4 Kxe7 19. Nc3+ Kf8
20. Re5 Rd8 21. Rb1 Nc6 22. Ree1 Nxb4 23. Rb3 Qa5 24. Reb1 Nc6 25. Rxb7 d4
26. Ne4 Qxa2 27. h3 f5 28. Ng5 Rd7 29. R7b2 Qa3 30. Rb8+ Nd8 31. Re1 Qa5
32. Nf3 d3 33. Re5 Rd5 34. Rxd5 Qxd5 35. Rb4 Nc6 36. Rb1 Kf7 37. h4 Qd7 38.
Rd1 Rb8 39. Ng5+ Kg6 40. Nf3 Rb2 41. Kh2 Qd6+ 42. Kg1 Nd4 43. Ng5 h6 44.
Nh3 Ne2+ 45. Kh1 Qe7 46. h5+ Kxh5 47. Kh2 Qh4 48. g3 {White resigns} *[/pgn]
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll: