Genius is free chess engine with free source

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Tony Thomas

Re: Genius is free chess engine with free source

Post by Tony Thomas » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:04 am

Terry McCracken wrote: You must be joking.....it's been around for 17 years, besides, that's not the point.

Of course the author knows.
Do you think that any of the kids that play with 8 core Rybka over at playchess knows about Genius? I would say that more than 50% of them have never heard of Chess Genius. Whether or not the author knows about Chess Genius, we dont know the answer to that, anything anyone except the author says would be a speculation. I dont see the need for a lawsuit because he is not selling anything. Besides, you remember the Gromit chess engine, no one sued them because they used a name with a copyright.

Uri Blass
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Re: Genius is free chess engine with free source

Post by Uri Blass » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:10 am

gerold wrote:
Tony Thomas wrote:
tiger wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
tiger wrote: This guy deserves to be sued because he is using Genius as the name of a chess program. He is using the same name as Richard Lang's program, which existed long before and is known worldwide

I hope Richard Lang has been informed about it.


// Christophe
Could well be an innocent error Christophe.

Besides "The Genius" is surely different from "Chess Genius" ?

Regards, Graham.

An innocent error? Yeah, like the guy was living in a far far away village in india and has never got access to internet before! ;-)

OK, let's play it soft.

(begin gentle tone)
If it was not intentional, he should change the name of his engine as soon as he is informed.
(end gentle tone)

Anything that has the "Genius" word in his name and is a chess engine is a clear hijacking of a famous existing work by Richard Lang. I can't believe a court would decide otherwise.

I think it would be enough to inform Sourceforge about the trademark infringement and the project would be quickly removed from there.


// Christophe
Why do you take everything so seriously. Chess Genius isnt as well known as you think.
This engine doesn't work. :)
It is not correct
The engine works

He seems to use non standard notation

The white king is at the 8th rank and at the d file so
d7-d5 d2-d4 is written instead of 1.e2-e4 e7-e5

I also cannot see black pieces if they are on black squares but except these minor problems it is possible to play against this engine and it is even possible to castle.

I played a game and it was able to save my game


In order to make a move you need to click on the square that you want to move a piece from it and also do not leave the mouse and move it to the square that you want to go

Here is a game that I played against it in it's default level that is not the strongest level

I decided to offer a draw to Genius after winning material because I did not like the interface.

It seems that Genius did not save the last move that he played when it saved the game except the last move.


1. d7 - d5 2. d2 - d4 3. b8 - c6 4. g1 - f3 5. g8 - f6 6. b1 - c3 7. c6 - b4 8. c1 - d2 9. c8 - f5 Castling 10. e8 - c6 11. a2 - a3 12. b4 - c2 13. c1 - c2 14. f5 - c2 15. b1 - c2 16. f6 - e4 17. f3 - e5 18. c6 - e6 19. c3 - e4 20. d5 - e4 21. e2 - e3 22. a7 - a6 23. f1 - c4 24. e6 - f6 25. e5 - f7
nbnp
otm


Note that I used winboard to watch the game(I do not like to play half blindfold when I do not see part of the pieces) and winboard saved the game like that

[Event "Edited game"]
[Site "URI-AMD"]
[Date "2007.06.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "-"]
[Black "-"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Ng5 Be7 5. Bc4 O-O 6. Qf3 h6 7. Nxf7 Rxf7
8. Bxf7+ Kxf7 9. Nd5 Nd4 10. Qd3 Nxd5 11. exd5 d6 12. h3 Bf5 13. Qc3 Nxc2+
14. Ke2
*

Terry McCracken

Re: Genius is free chess engine with free source

Post by Terry McCracken » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:30 am

Tony Thomas wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote: You must be joking.....it's been around for 17 years, besides, that's not the point.

Of course the author knows.
Do you think that any of the kids that play with 8 core Rybka over at playchess knows about Genius? I would say that more than 50% of them have never heard of Chess Genius. Whether or not the author knows about Chess Genius, we dont know the answer to that, anything anyone except the author says would be a speculation. I dont see the need for a lawsuit because he is not selling anything. Besides, you remember the Gromit chess engine, no one sued them because they used a name with a copyright.
Hmmm....a lot of rich kids eh? I find it hard to believe that more than 50% wouldn't know the name Chess Genius.

Probably don't know which year we landed on the moon either...sad...

If he tries to sell it he should be sued. Even giving it away using Genius in the name is unethical.

Uri Blass
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Re: Genius is free chess engine with free source

Post by Uri Blass » Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:14 am

Terry McCracken wrote:
Tony Thomas wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote: You must be joking.....it's been around for 17 years, besides, that's not the point.

Of course the author knows.
Do you think that any of the kids that play with 8 core Rybka over at playchess knows about Genius? I would say that more than 50% of them have never heard of Chess Genius. Whether or not the author knows about Chess Genius, we dont know the answer to that, anything anyone except the author says would be a speculation. I dont see the need for a lawsuit because he is not selling anything. Besides, you remember the Gromit chess engine, no one sued them because they used a name with a copyright.
Hmmm....a lot of rich kids eh? I find it hard to believe that more than 50% wouldn't know the name Chess Genius.

Probably don't know which year we landed on the moon either...sad...

If he tries to sell it he should be sued. Even giving it away using Genius in the name is unethical.
The program comes with source so it is clear that he had no intentions to sell it.

Uri

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tiger
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Re: Genius is free chess engine with free source

Post by tiger » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:07 am

Uri Blass wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote:
Tony Thomas wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote: You must be joking.....it's been around for 17 years, besides, that's not the point.

Of course the author knows.
Do you think that any of the kids that play with 8 core Rybka over at playchess knows about Genius? I would say that more than 50% of them have never heard of Chess Genius. Whether or not the author knows about Chess Genius, we dont know the answer to that, anything anyone except the author says would be a speculation. I dont see the need for a lawsuit because he is not selling anything. Besides, you remember the Gromit chess engine, no one sued them because they used a name with a copyright.
Hmmm....a lot of rich kids eh? I find it hard to believe that more than 50% wouldn't know the name Chess Genius.

Probably don't know which year we landed on the moon either...sad...

If he tries to sell it he should be sued. Even giving it away using Genius in the name is unethical.
The program comes with source so it is clear that he had no intentions to sell it.

Uri

That is not the point.

Try to write an open source operating system and call it "Open Windows" and see what happens.

It does not matter if you try to make money from it or not.


// Christophe

Spock

Re: Genius is free chess engine with free source

Post by Spock » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:47 am

tiger wrote: Try to write an open source operating system and call it "Open Windows" and see what happens.


// Christophe
Indeed, even Lindows was enough to cause a lawsuit :shock:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_vs._Lindows

Uri Blass
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Re: Genius is free chess engine with free source

Post by Uri Blass » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:38 am

Spock wrote:
tiger wrote: Try to write an open source operating system and call it "Open Windows" and see what happens.


// Christophe
Indeed, even Lindows was enough to cause a lawsuit :shock:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_vs._Lindows

Yes but I am not sure if even using the name open windows is illegal
From that site:
"Microsoft feared that a court may define "Windows" as generic and result in the loss of its status as a trademark."

I am against fights against similiar names when the programmer of the product with the similiar name does not try to make money from selling his product(the genius case) so it is impossible
to say that he earns money from causing the customers to believe in something that is not correct.

It is also clear that the programmer of lindows did not expect people to believe that lindows is windows

People usually pay attention to the first letter and they will not miss the difference so my opinion is that there was no moral right for microsoft to complain even in case of not choosing generic name to their product and
if we talk about chess programs I do not see how selling a chess program with the name Lybka or Liger or Lritz or Liarcs or Lap!chess or Lunior or Lhredder is going to reduce the sales of Vas or Christophe or other programmers.

Uri

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Graham Banks
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Re: Genius is free chess engine with free source

Post by Graham Banks » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:59 am

We had a ridiculous case here a few years back where a major company (can't recall which one) got a family business using their family name to change because the family name was the same as the major company's.

As far as I'm concerned, you should have every right to name your business with your family name.

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George Tsavdaris
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Re: Question....

Post by George Tsavdaris » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:59 am

tiger wrote:
If it was not intentional, he should change the name of his engine as soon as he is informed.

Anything that has the "Genius" word in his name and is a chess engine is a clear hijacking of a famous existing work by Richard Lang. I can't believe a court would decide otherwise.
Suppose i write a Chess engine, a bad Chess engine, and name it "Crocodile" for example. But because my engine is bad it will gain only limited publicity.
Then are you saying that after i name my engine "Crocodile", NO ONE else can name his engine: "Crocodile" or "The Crocodile" or nothing that contains the name "Crocodile" in it?

Or it depends on the how much famous will be my engine?
Because if this is the case then it is ridiculous. Since in this way the successful=strong people will be treated with a favorable way and this is injustice!



And what happens if i write several,for example 20, very similar(because of limited time) engines under GPL for example and name them with common names? None will be able to use any of these names in its engine?

In my eyes "The Genius" is different to the name "Chess Genius". Did Lang copyrighted/patented the word "Genius" not to be used in a Chess or other program?

Dirt
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Re: Genius is free chess engine with free source

Post by Dirt » Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:57 pm

Graham Banks wrote:We had a ridiculous case here a few years back where a major company (can't recall which one) got a family business using their family name to change because the family name was the same as the major company's.

As far as I'm concerned, you should have every right to name your business with your family name.
While I agree that companies are getting more trademark protection than they deserve, if a family name is too close to that of an established competitor it shouldn't be allowed. It's not like using your family name is the only possible choice for the name of a business.

When Mike Rowe called his company Mike Rowe Soft, I don't think he was ignorant of the confusing nature of the name. Even though it was mostly a joke, I think Microsoft did have a legitimate complaint there.

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