ATM censorship has been relaxed on Rybka forum.

[Tom Barrister]

So the Rybka people are saying that it's cool for Rybka to be a Fruit derivative, because Mr. Rajlich turned it into the top rated engine in the world.

But it wasn't okay for Houdini to possibly be a Rybka derivative, even though Mr. Houdart turned it into the top engine in the world.

Duh.

[Steve B]

So the Rybka people are saying that it's cool for Rybka to be a Fruit derivative, because Mr. Rajlich turned it into the top rated engine in the world.

But it wasn't okay for Houdini to possibly be a Rybka derivative, even though Mr. Houdart turned it into the top engine in the world.

Duh.

Exactly Regards
Steve

[K I Hyams]

So the Rybka people are saying that it's cool for Rybka to be a Fruit derivative, because Mr. Rajlich turned it into the top rated engine in the world.

But it wasn't okay for Houdini to possibly be a Rybka derivative, even though Mr. Houdart turned it into the top engine in the world.

Duh.

One of their “star players” says that both Rybka and Houdini are valid because each was an improvement upon that on which it was based. Instead, he associates himself with the following arguments:
1. Rajlich is a nice man.
2. The copying took place a long time ago.
3. The offence was very minor.
4. The improvement that Rajlich obtained was very large.
5. The behaviour of Rajlich’s detractors is similar to that of a lynch mob.
6. ICGA is irrelevant.
7. The Rybka version under investigation is not one that won a world title.
8. Omitting the world's strongest computer chess entity from a 2011 tournament is a travesty.

[kranium]

anyway..in a bizarre twist of fate ..the destiny's of Rybka and Ippo & Family seem to be intertwined..
if Rybka is unmasked as an illegal derivative by the ICGA then i wonder how this impacts Ippo and family ?
Would Rybka be removed from all rating lists and even deemed unacceptable to post about here ??(violation of Legal provision of charter ) and if so..what about Ippo and family then?
would be a strange ..even cruel result ..for Rybka to be banned and yet Ippo and Family deemed acceptable for the rating groups to continue to test or be discussed here
perhaps they all should be painted with the same brush once the ICGA renders its verdict?
Steve

If the ICGA decides to ban Ippo and 'family', I hope and pray they would present some evidence of this 'hypothetical' Rybka 3/IppoLit code relationship. To date, nothing exists (to my knowledge) besides Vas's word.

I sincerely hope that such a misbegotten travesty does not occur.

Norm

[Steve B]

One of their “star players” says that both Rybka and Houdini are valid because each was an improvement upon that on which it was based. Instead, he associates himself with the following arguments:
1. Rajlich is a nice man.
2. The copying took place a long time ago.
3. The offence was very minor.
4. The improvement that Rajlich obtained was very large.
5. The behaviour of Rajlich’s detractors is similar to that of a lynch mob.
6. ICGA is irrelevant.
7. The Rybka version under investigation is not one that won a world title.
8. Omitting the world's strongest computer chess entity from a 2011 tournament is a travesty.

each argument more ridiculous then the next
desperate even..also a bit sad
to realize that you have devoted your time and effort ..posting day after day ..in a forum that at the end of the day ..is devoted to an illegal derivative.. must be a very depressing thought
the first reaction is always to lash out at the messenger

you must have had a field day replying to that silly nonsense

In Denial Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

anyway..in a bizarre twist of fate ..the destiny's of Rybka and Ippo & Family seem to be intertwined..
if Rybka is unmasked as an illegal derivative by the ICGA then i wonder how this impacts Ippo and family ?
Would Rybka be removed from all rating lists and even deemed unacceptable to post about here ??(violation of Legal provision of charter ) and if so..what about Ippo and family then?
would be a strange ..even cruel result ..for Rybka to be banned and yet Ippo and Family deemed acceptable for the rating groups to continue to test or be discussed here
perhaps they all should be painted with the same brush once the ICGA renders its verdict?
Steve

If the ICGA decides to ban Ippo and 'family', I hope and pray they would present some evidence of this 'hypothetical' Rybka 3/IppoLit code relationship. To date, nothing exists (to my knowledge) besides Vas's word.

I sincerely hope that such a misbegotten travesty does not occur.

Norm

i wasn't thinking of the ICGA banning Ippo & Family in my post
i believe that from now on all engines entered into an ICGA event will have to reveal their source code in case claims arise against that program
i cant see any of the "Ippo Engines" ever doing that so its not an issue

i was just discussing/wondering how will the CC community view/deal with the Ippo engines once the decision is made on Rybka?
seems like a strange result for Rybka to be deservedly and finally unmasked for what it was all of this time(an illegally derived Fruit Engine) and yet for Ippo-Robbo-Houdini ..etc..etc ..to go on like nothing has changed
its a complete 100% role reversal
where at first Rybka was accepted and Ippo and Friends were condemed..now..Rybka is exposed and condemned (Rightfully so) and Ippo and Friends are perfectly accepted

it always bothered me as moderator that we should condemn Ippo and Family ..while at the same time Rybka was out there( with evidence against it's originality) and yet it was considered perfectly legit
i felt it made no sense to condemn arbitrarily the middle of this chain of engines starting only at Ippo
Fruit--->Rybka--->Ippo--->Robo--->Firebird--->Houdini
now that the root of the chain (Rybka) will soon be officially exposed i see a bit of a dilemma for the CC community

Perhaps we should just just consider all of these engines as Fruit derivatives and leave it at that

Chain Gang Regards
Steve

[Tom Barrister]

1. Rajlich is a nice man.
2. The copying took place a long time ago.
3. The offence was very minor.
4. The improvement that Rajlich obtained was very large.
5. The behaviour of Rajlich’s detractors is similar to that of a lynch mob.
6. ICGA is irrelevant.
7. The Rybka version under investigation is not one that won a world title.
8. Omitting the world's strongest computer chess entity from a 2011 tournament is a travesty.

1) Yes, nice men always steal code and sell them for profit, fail to update their engines, and ignore their customers.

2) I doubt it. I believe that if Rybka 4 source were revealed, we would find code from almost every strong engine out there, including those that are closed-source

3) Illegal copying of an entire program is hardly minor, nor is a minor offense justifiable.

4) No doubt. When one copies the best parts of 15-20 engines and takes the best ideas from others, he should make a big improvement, too.

5) Lynch mobs don't go after people who aren't believed to be guilty of something.

6) So are all of the arguments presented.

7) I have no doubt that the one that won a world title is a conglameration of several other engines.

8) By that logic, if it were proven that Messrs. Carlsen or Anand were cheating with computers (and I'm not even hinting that they have been), it would be a travesty to ban them from future tournaments, since they are two of the best players in the world. Also, Rybka is no longer the strongest.