Syzygy bases ... question to "Syzygy Probe Depth"

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi there,

I need a tip for the syzygz UCI setting:
Syzygy Probe Depth=2

For FCP Tourney-2020 I am using for all engines (where I can set the option)
Syzygy Probe Depth=2

I am using 4-pieces for my tourneys and Fischer time control 20 minutes + 5 seconds.

Not sure with the Syzygy Probe Depth settings because standard settings by engine programmers are quiet different.

So, what I should config for the next FCP-Tourney?
Syzygy Probe Depht=2 or an other setting!

Absolutely not sure here!

Best
Frank

[MikeB]

Hi there,

I need a tip for the syzygz UCI setting:
Syzygy Probe Depth=2

For FCP Tourney-2020 I am using for all engines (where I can set the option)
Syzygy Probe Depth=2

I am using 4-pieces for my tourneys and Fischer time control 20 minutes + 5 seconds.

Not sure with the Syzygy Probe Depth settings because standard settings by engine programmers are quiet different.

So, what I should config for the next FCP-Tourney?
Syzygy Probe Depht=2 or an other setting!

Absolutely not sure here!

Best
Frank

As long as you are on SSD , use 1. It will probe at depth 1. ON a slow HHD drive, you might want to go higher than 2, if you see a slowdown in nps. Go high enough so that you don't see a major slowdown in nps.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Mike,

ah, that is the reason.
In this case I have to set =1.

Mike, could you help us again with a MAC version of Wasp 4.00?
After all I know you are the expert here.

I have 3 support questions for it and now longer a good excuse.
That would be great if you can do that for us.

Maybe you have time for it?

Best and thanks for answere of syzygy question.
Frank

[Nordlandia]

For syzygy 3-4-5 it is safe to leave egtb probe depth at default because it will be catched in RAM on the fly.

Alternative is to catch them in RAM before the match start so you won't expierence slowdown by HDD.

There is a syntax for pre-catching syzygy. I'll look around for it.

[syzygy]

For syzygy 3-4-5 it is safe to leave egtb probe depth at default because it will be catched in RAM on the fly.

Indeed. Unless the available RAM is really low (but Frank seems to be using 3+4-piece TBs only, which should certainly fit in RAM without any issue).

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi syzygy,



I will use the chance of the day for two more questions!?

1. With 3-4 pieces only
Syzygy Probe Depth can be set to "1" if I understand.
I am using "Samsung 970 EVO Plus"

2. Should I copy the syzygy files for all of the engines where use endgame databases in an own directory or should I give for all of the engines the same syzygy directory?

3. I think such a tourney is more interesting with 3-4men only for different reasons.
- access is to high for 3-4-5 pieces if 10 games on i9-10900 runs to the same time
- I like to see the engine fight not the database influence

Fact is, I am all the time not sure?!!
Maybe I should use for all of the engines 3-4-5 pieces?

Around the year 1999 many of developers and testers agreed that engine testing is better without nalimov tablebases.

Three possibilities:
1. Without endgame databases
2. With 3-4 pieces (good for avoid unnecessary endgame moves ... the reason I am using all the time 3-4 pieces.
3. With 3-4-5 pieces

What's your opinion about it for a long time tournament with 41.000 games (10 matches runs to the same time) and Fischer time control game in 20 minutes + 5 seconds?

Best
Frank

[syzygy]

1. With 3-4 pieces only
Syzygy Probe Depth can be set to "1" if I understand.
I am using "Samsung 970 EVO Plus"

If you have an SSD, why not at least use 5 piece TBs?
OK, you are giving the answer already below.

2. Should I copy the syzygy files for all of the engines where use endgame databases in an own directory or should I give for all of the engines the same syzygy directory?

You should let all engines use the same table files. That way, each file will be cached in RAM only once to the benefit of both engines.

3. I think such a tourney is more interesting with 3-4men only for different reasons.
- access is to high for 3-4-5 pieces if 10 games on i9-10900 runs to the same time
- I like to see the engine fight not the database influence

If you let all engines use the same syzygy files, there should not be any slowdown as long as there is about 400 MB of RAM for caching the TB files in memory. So don't set the size of the hashtable for each of the 10 engines to exactly 1/10th of your RAM but make sure that a bit of RAM is left for caching TB files.

With 5-piece TBs there is still plenty of room for the engines to have a fight. (But you should do what you like best, of course.)

Maybe I should use for all of the engines 3-4-5 pieces?

That's what I would do for sure.

Around the year 1999 many of developers and testers agreed that engine testing is better without nalimov tablebases.

But Nalimov tablebases are different. The 5-piece Nalimov tables are about 7 GB, so will not easily be cached in RAM. In addition, probing them costs a lot more time, and any Nalimov TB cache you give to an engine won't be used by other engines.

The 5-piece Syzygy WDL tables are just 340MB and will quickly be cached into the Windows system file cache, where they are directly accessed by all the engines (which don't need private TB caches).

What's your opinion about it for a long time tournament with 41.000 games (10 matches runs to the same time) and Fischer time control game in 20 minutes + 5 seconds?

Letting all engines use 3-4-5 piece Syzygy tables should not give any performance problems at all.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi syzygy,

thats good explantion I understand.

OK, I will used the 3-4-5 pieces syzygy bases.

Detail page:
http://www.amateurschach.de/main/_fcp-tourney-2021.htm

I will write a short messages about the changes between FCP Tourney-2020 and FCP Tourney-2021

For the moment:
- engines should play with default contempt settings.
- 3-4-5 pieces endgame databases

Thank you!!!

Best
Frank

It's better to organice the next tournament with a bit more time / patience.
I will added later a screen from the UCI settings for each of the engines in tournament *.zip file.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Ah sorry ...

If I understand for 3-4-5 pieces syzygy it's better to set syzygy probe depth to "2" on my Samsung 970 EVO Plus?
Or the same as for 3-4 pieces syzygy with probe depth to "1"?

Default settings by engine programmers are quiet different here!

[syzygy]

Ah sorry ...

If I understand for 3-4-5 pieces syzygy it's better to set syzygy probe depth to "2" on my Samsung 970 EVO Plus?
Or the same as for 3-4 pieces syzygy with probe depth to "1"?

Default settings by engine programmers are quiet different here!

On your system probe depth 1 will be fine with 3-4-5-piece TBs.