A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

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Frank Quisinsky
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Full name: Frank Quisinsky

A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

[pgn][Event "40 Moves in 12 min"]
[Site "fcp-tourney-2021, WASP-1"]
[Date "2021.03.17"]
[Round "24.41"]
[White "Dragon by Komodo NN AVX2 x64"]
[Black "Wasp 4.50 Modern x64"]
[ECO "E81"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. d4 {book 0s} Nf6 {book 0s} 2. c4 {book 0s} g6 {book 0s}
3. Nc3 {book 0s} Bg7 {book 0s} 4. e4 {book 0s} d6 {book 0s}
5. f3 {book 0s} O-O {book 0s} 6. Be3 {book 0s} a6 {book 0s}
7. Qd2 {book 0s} c6 {book 0s} 8. Bd3 {book 0s} b5 {book 0s}
9. Nge2 {+0.39/28 36s} Nbd7 {+0.41/22 16s (bxc4)} 10. O-O
{+0.43/28 45s (b3)} e5 {+0.32/23 16s} 11. b3 {+0.35/28 22s}
exd4 {+0.41/23 16s} 12. Nxd4 {+0.43/27 17s (Bxd4)} Bb7
{+0.34/21 22s (Ne5)} 13. Rad1 {+0.49/26 22s (Nc2)} Qc7
{+0.33/23 16s (Re8)} 14. Rfe1 {+0.64/27 30s (Be2)} b4
{+0.24/21 22s (Rfe8)} 15. Nce2 {+0.61/28 20s (Na4)} c5
{+0.35/23 16s (d5)} 16. Nc2 {+0.68/28 16s} Ne5 {+0.33/25
19s (a5)} 17. Bh6 {+0.80/29 19s (Bg5)} Bxh6 {+0.22/25 17s}
18. Qxh6 {+0.63/29 16s} Nh5 {+0.26/24 17s} 19. Nf4
{+0.58/28 24s (Kh1)} Nxf4 {+0.28/25 17s} 20. Qxf4 {+0.63/29
16s} a5 {+0.38/24 17s (Nc6)} 21. Ne3 {+0.64/28 41s (Qg3)}
a4 {+0.29/24 17s} 22. h4 {+0.79/30 35s (Bb1)} Qe7 {+0.47/23
24s} 23. Qg3 {+0.64/28 15s (Bc2)} axb3 {+0.58/22 24s (Kh8)}
24. axb3 {+0.36/27 20s} Nc6 {+0.40/24 30s (Kh8)} 25. Nf5
{+1.51/27 31s (h5)} Qe5 {+0.46/25 17s} 26. f4 {+1.48/26
26s} Qc3 {+0.46/24 18s (Qb2)} 27. Re3 {+1.31/24 13s (h5)}
Qxb3 {+0.83/23 33s (Nd4)} 28. Rb1 {+1.99/25 17s} Qa2
{+0.42/23 24s} 29. h5 {+2.22/27 36s} Ra3 {+1.20/22 26s}
30. Rbe1 {+2.44/24 15s} Qb2 {+0.61/23 32s} 31. Nxd6
{+2.45/25 16s} Ba8 {+0.62/24 17s} 32. Kh2 {+2.75/25 20s
(e5)} Qg7 {+0.76/22 24s (Ra7)} 33. Qg5 {+2.13/25 11s (Qh4)}
Nd8 {+0.90/22 17s (f6)} 34. h6 {+3.52/25 12s (Qxc5)} Qb2
{+1.59/25 18s} 35. Qg3 {+3.52/25 13s (Nb5)} Nc6 {+1.59/23
21s} 36. Nb5 {+4.30/27 26s} Rb3 {+2.36/24 29s (Nd4)}
37. Nc7 {+4.94/25 14s (R1e2)} Nd4 {+2.55/22 30s (Ra3)}
38. f5 {+5.49/25 9s} Bc6 {+3.84/23 37s (Ra3)} 39. Rb1
{+8.02/27 19s} Qd2 {+6.04/24 26s (Qa2)} 40. Rxb3 {+9.64/23
8s} Qa2 {+9.51/21 15s} 41. Rb1 {+12.07/28 30s} Qa7
{+12.00/21 14s} 42. Nd5 {+13.38/26 13s (Rf1)} Qb8
{+12.30/21 17s (b3)} 43. e5 {+15.13/26 17s (Ne7+)} Bxd5
{+13.28/21 18s (Kh8)} 44. cxd5 {+15.85/26 36s} c4
{+17.61/21 37s (Kh8)} 45. fxg6 {+16.83/26 1:29m} hxg6
{+24.74/23 38s} 46. Bxg6 {+M15/19 2s} Kh8 {+43.04/23 2:15m}
47. Qf4 {+M14/20 3s (Bh7)} fxg6 {+24.16/19 15s} 48. Qxd4
{+M13/21 3s} Kh7 {+M15/20 1:41m} 49. d6 {+M12/21 5s} Rf2
{+33.60/15 12s (g5)} 50. e6 {+M11/16 2s} Qg8 {+M9/16 27s}
51. e7 {+M8/19 2s} Rf4 {+M8/15 0s (Rd2)} 52. Qxf4 {+M7/24
1s} g5 {+M7/13 0s} 53. Qf5+ {+M6/30 2s (Qf6)} Qg6 {+M6/11
0s} 54. Qxg6+ {+M5/57 1s} Kxg6 {+M5/9 0s} 55. e8=Q+ {+M4/99
0s} Kxh6 {+M4/7 0s} 56. Re6+ {+M3/99 0s} Kg7 {+M3/5 0s}
57. Qg6+ {+M2/99 0s (Rg6+)} Kf8 {+M2/3 0s} 58. Re8# {+M1/99
0s (Rf1+)} 1-0[/pgn]

For three days I am looking the game in live mode.
All seems to be good for Wasp but Dragon put a bomb in move 25.Nf5!!

Never, never, never I am thinking because I saw nothing.
A deep combination, different strong moves follow.

Yesterday in the evening I analyze the move ... a bomb I think.
In such moments I am thinking I am very bad chess player!!

Best
Frank
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12540
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by Dann Corbit »

Start analyzing from Black's 24th move.
Use the Sugar ICCF version, and give it plenty of time, at least ten minutes per move.
I did not analyze it yet, but I think move 24 by black is the mistake that lost the game.

To understand fully what the engines are telling us, play through ten to fifteen of the pv moves at each ply.
Then you can see the plan and why it makes sense.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
User avatar
Tibono
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:16 pm
Location: France

Re: A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by Tibono »

Well, without calculating any long range plan, the move 25.Nf5 is easy to ponder as very good: the knight reaches a strong, center outpost as the g6 pawn is pinned, while gaining a tempo as the enemy Queen is under attack; in addition it is a fork to the weak backward pawn d6 with a potential later threat to the b7 runner and f7 pawn ... A move that cumulates qualities MUST be a good move! (I am no strong player, but I currently read Lyudmil Tsvetkov's The Fine Art of Chess, an excellent book!)
Frank Quisinsky
Posts: 6808
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

[pgn][Event "40 Moves in 12 min"]
[Site "fcp-tourney-2021, WASP-1"]
[Date "2021.03.20"]
[Round "25.41"]
[White "Wasp 4.50 Modern x64"]
[Black "Dragon by Komodo NN AVX2 x64"]
[ECO "A61"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1. d4 {book 0s} Nf6 {book 0s} 2. c4 {book 0s} e6 {book 0s}
3. Nf3 {book 0s} c5 {book 0s} 4. d5 {book 0s} exd5 {book
0s} 5. cxd5 {book 0s} d6 {book 0s} 6. Nc3 {book 0s} g6
{book 0s} 7. Nd2 {book 0s} Bg7 {book 0s} 8. Nc4 {book 0s}
O-O {book 0s} 9. Bf4 {book 0s} Ne8 {book 0s} 10. e3 {book
0s} b6 {book 0s} 11. h3 {+0.55/22 27s} Nd7 {+0.17/26 17s
(Na6)} 12. Nxd6 {+0.44/24 23s (a4)} Bxc3+ {0.00/32 48s
(Nxd6)} 13. bxc3 {+0.11/27 17s} Nxd6 {+0.13/32 26s}
14. Bxd6 {+0.23/26 17s} Qf6 {+0.55/28 21s} 15. Bxf8
{+0.22/25 17s} Qxc3+ {+0.59/29 26s} 16. Ke2 {+0.22/25 17s}
Qb2+ {+0.57/27 19s} 17. Kf3 {+0.17/26 17s} Kxf8 {+0.39/29
20s} 18. Qc1 {+0.24/24 26s (Bd3)} Qe5 {-0.05/26 15s}
19. Bc4 {+0.15/24 34s} Nf6 {+0.10/27 19s} 20. Ke2 {+0.28/24
25s} Kg8 {0.00/28 25s (Nxd5)} 21. f3 {+0.54/23 31s (f4)} a6
{0.00/29 31s (b5)} 22. a4 {+0.75/24 17s (Bb3)} Rb8 {0.00/28
16s} 23. Kf2 {+0.49/24 35s (f4)} b5 {+0.13/28 18s} 24. axb5
{+0.62/25 17s} axb5 {+0.18/29 17s} 25. Be2 {+0.54/25 17s}
c4 {+0.39/29 23s} 26. d6 {+0.52/25 17s} Qxd6 {+0.15/29 18s}
27. Rd1 {+0.46/25 17s} Nd5 {+0.47/30 23s} 28. Qb2 {+0.62/26
24s} Be6 {+0.41/28 20s} 29. Qd4 {+0.43/23 18s} Qc6
{+0.35/30 30s} 30. Rdb1 {+0.47/24 18s (Ra5)} Rc8 {0.00/31
15s} 31. Bf1 {+0.56/24 19s (Rc1)} h5 {+0.18/29 47s (h6)}
32. Ra5 {+0.42/23 19s (e4)} b4 {0.00/31 15s (Nc7)} 33. e4
{+0.59/26 26s} Nf4 {+0.05/32 17s} 34. Rxb4 {+0.65/26 20s}
c3 {+0.13/34 30s} 35. Ra1 {+1.02/25 22s} Qc7 {+0.24/32 29s}
36. Rc1 {+1.03/25 21s} Rd8 {+0.10/32 14s (c2)} 37. Qxc3
{+1.65/26 23s} Nxh3+ {+0.08/34 15s} 38. gxh3 {+1.81/29 23s}
Qh2+ {+0.09/32 12s} 39. Bg2 {+1.25/30 37s} Bxh3 {+0.08/34
18s} 40. Rg1 {+1.82/28 24s} h4 {+0.07/33 10s} 41. Rd4
{+1.64/26 13s (Rbb1)} Rb8 {0.00/34 34s} 42. Rdd1 {+1.74/26
14s} Qg3+ {0.00/34 19s} 43. Kf1 {+1.25/27 14s} Be6 {0.00/35
22s} 44. Qd4 {+1.13/25 21s (Ke2)} Rb3 {0.00/33 24s (h3)}
45. Ra1 {+0.82/25 21s (Ke2)} Bc4+ {0.00/40 15s (Rb8)}
46. Qxc4 {+2.00/24 14s} Rxf3+ {0.00/36 14s} 47. Bxf3
{+2.04/24 14s} Qxf3+ {0.00/34 17s} 48. Ke1 {+1.49/15 0s}
Qe3+ {0.00/35 40s} 49. Qe2 {+2.21/23 14s} Qxg1+ {0.00/36
12s} 50. Qf1 {+2.13/23 14s} Qe3+ {0.00/37 16s} 51. Kd1
{+2.17/22 14s} Qd4+ {0.00/39 16s (Qxe4)} 52. Ke2 {+2.23/21
15s (Kc2)} Qxe4+ {0.00/41 25s} 53. Kf2 {0.00/23 45s (Kd2)}
Qd4+ {0.00/42 13s} 54. Kg2 {0.00/23 14s} h3+ {0.00/44 16s}
55. Kxh3 {0.00/24 14s} Qh8+ {0.00/43 12s (Qe3+)} 56. Kg2
{0.00/27 14s (Kg3)} Qb2+ {0.00/46 16s} 57. Kh3 {0.00/25 14s
(Kh1)} Qh8+ {0.00/46 17s (Qc3+)} 58. Kg2 {0.00/27 15s
(Kg3)} Qb2+ {0.00/50 16s} 59. Kg1 {0.00/27 15s (Kh1)} Qd4+
{0.00/51 1:01m} 60. Kh2 {0.00/26 15s (Kg2)} Qe5+ {0.00/42
15s} 61. Kg1 {0.00/27 15s} Qd4+ {0.00/47 53s} 62. Kh2
{0.00/27 15s (Kg2)} Qe5+ {0.00/40 46s} 63. Kh1 {0.00/28 16s
(Kg1)} Qh8+ {0.00/57 7s} 64. Kg1 {0.00/31 16s (Kg2)} Qd4+
{0.00/69 7s} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

Hi Dann,

I am looking not before move 25., thats right.

But the combination after 25. Nf5 is to long for see that the game is won for Dragon. A lot of strong moves follow. Exactly the same in the game from round 25 vs. Komodo. Wasp made a draw but Komodo have a very long time the draw in the eval ... Wasp more as 10 moves later. The same here, the pawn move 40. ... h4 not to see for myself during the game is still running. I am absolutly sure Wasp will win the first game vs. Dragon. Today a stronger chessplayer with 2.400 Elo I have at home. His comment, Frank ... you have to look in the game Komodo vs. Wasp. Wasp can win the game.

That's very interesting again and again.
Wasp have a very strong king safty and is a great attacker (place 8 at the moment in the still running FCP Tourney-2021).
Dragon is 325 Elo stronger as Wasp and if I am looking in detail I can see the Elo different if I invest many time for analyzes! The advantage from Wasp (the great middlegame) is only a small advantage if Wasp have to play games vs. 325-375 Elo stronger engines.

In round 25 Wasp made draw vs. Stockfish and Dragon but with such a high Elo different a won game is for Wasp not possible. Same for all the other engines in the tourney.

I am thinking about it, to play the next tourneys without Stockfish and Komodo, so I have two places for weaker engines. The reason is that to many moves I can't understand during the games are still running.

For Tibono ...
Yes I like it a lot to read chess books and follow the great combinations from our grandmaster or chess teacher. I have a lot of fun with my chess books. But engines with 3500 Elo, 750 Elo stronger as the World Champion are playing in an other league and often moves are not directly to understand. In the first game the high Eval after 25. Nf5 is for me not to understand in the time the game is still running. Later, after the game I understand the combination but not in the first first 20 seconds I have time during the match is still running.

Best
Frank
User avatar
xr_a_y
Posts: 1871
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:28 pm
Location: France

Re: A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by xr_a_y »

As a human, this move seems complex indeed, but for any engine I guess, this is quite easy.

Minic + noisy notch get that at depth 9 !

Code: Select all

info string This is Minic version 3.05 (NNUE available)
info string Info  2021-03-20 19:43:31-806: Loading NNUE net ../../../NNUE-Nets/noisy_notch.bin
info depth 1 score cp 60 time 1 nodes 31 nps 30999 seldepth 2 tbhits 0 pv e3d5 
info depth 2 score cp 1295 time 1 nodes 68 nps 68000 seldepth 6 tbhits 0 pv e3d5 c6d4 
info depth 3 score cp 1295 time 1 nodes 109 nps 108999 seldepth 6 tbhits 0 pv e3d5 c6d4 d5e7 
info depth 4 score cp 1295 time 1 nodes 149 nps 149000 seldepth 6 tbhits 0 pv e3d5 c6d4 d5e7 g8h8 
info depth 5 score cp 1191 time 1 nodes 196 nps 195999 seldepth 7 tbhits 0 pv e3d5 c6d4 d5e7 g8h8 g3d6 
info depth 5 score cp 1037 time 1 nodes 241 nps 240999 seldepth 7 tbhits 0 pv e3d5 h7h6 d5e7 c6e7 
info depth 5 score cp 171 time 1 nodes 400 nps 399999 seldepth 9 tbhits 0 pv e3d5 e7d8 
info depth 5 score cp 35 time 1 nodes 544 nps 544000 seldepth 9 tbhits 0 pv g1h2 c6d4 
info depth 5 score cp 8 time 1 nodes 979 nps 978999 seldepth 9 tbhits 0 pv g1h1 c6d4 e3f5 d4f5 e4f5 
info depth 6 score cp 61 time 1 nodes 1042 nps 1041999 seldepth 9 tbhits 0 pv g1h1 a8c8 
info depth 6 score cp 1 time 2 nodes 1180 nps 590000 seldepth 9 tbhits 0 pv g1h1 b7c8 e3f5 c8f5 e4f5 
info depth 7 score cp 40 time 2 nodes 1370 nps 684999 seldepth 9 tbhits 0 pv g1h1 c6d4 e3f5 e7f6 f5d6 
info depth 7 score cp 91 time 2 nodes 1432 nps 715999 seldepth 9 tbhits 0 pv g1h1 g8g7 
info depth 7 score cp 94 time 2 nodes 1558 nps 778999 seldepth 9 tbhits 0 pv g1h1 e7f6 e3f5 g8h8 g3d6 
info depth 8 score cp 102 time 4 nodes 2705 nps 676249 seldepth 10 tbhits 0 pv g1h1 c6d4 e3f5 d4f5 e4f5 e7d8 f5g6 f7g6 
info depth 9 score cp 74 time 8 nodes 5831 nps 728874 seldepth 15 tbhits 0 pv e3d5 e7d8 d3e2 c6d4 d5f6 d8f6 d1d4 
info depth 9 score cp 52 time 17 nodes 9602 nps 564823 seldepth 15 tbhits 0 pv e3f5 e7e5 f3f4 e5f6 e4e5 d6e5 f4e5 f6e6 g1h1 
info depth 10 score cp 79 time 17 nodes 9798 nps 576352 seldepth 15 tbhits 0 pv e3f5 e7d7 
info depth 10 score cp 69 time 22 nodes 13227 nps 601227 seldepth 15 tbhits 0 pv e3f5 e7e5 f3f4 e5e6 d3f1 f8d8 g1h1 a8a3 f5h6 
Later, at depth 26, pv is like this

Code: Select all

info depth 26 score cp 37 time 25736 nodes 18266670 nps 709771 seldepth 42 tbhits 0 hashfull 778 pv e3f5 e7e5 f3f4 e5c3 g3g5 f7f6 g5g3 c6d4 f5d6 b7c6 g1h2 a8a2 f4f5 d4b3 f5g6 c3e5 d6f5 b3d4 f5d4 c5d4 c4c5 a2a3 g3e5 f6e5 d3c4 g8g7 g6h7 g7h7 
Frank Quisinsky
Posts: 6808
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi Vivien,

that's great.

Ah Vivien, I played test games with your version 3.04.
Bug is fixed and your engine will definitiv participate in my next tourney.

Honestly, often it's frustrating if you looking in the games and you understand nothing.
And I believe I am strong chess player if I able to make 30% vs. Wasp on DGT Pi with the level 2325 Elo.

Maybe the time control for my tourneys is bad for watching the games during the games are still running.
45-minutes games aren't enough. I should give more time ... maybe 40 moves in 20 minutes?
To look into the games and not to understand moves ... or better to understand the moves ... 5 moves later ...
is definitiv frustrating.

Stockfish 11012021 is playing now 1.000 games vs. 40 opponents and lost ...
0 games! Komodo lost three games, 2x vs. Stockfish and 1x vs. Critter ... not more!

Frustrating for all the others!

Best
Frank
User avatar
yurikvelo
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:53 pm

Re: A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by yurikvelo »

SF-latest (abrok)

Code: Select all

D=40
+0,25	24. ... Kh8 25.f4 Nxd3 26.Rxd3 Qxe4 27.Ng4 Qc6
+0,70	24. ... Rfd8 25.Be2 Kh8 26.f4 Nc6 27.Nd5 Qf8
+0,75	24. ... Rfe8 25.Bf1 Kh8 26.h5 Rad8 27.f4 Nd7
+0,76	24. ... Rad8 25.Be2 Qf6 26.Rd2 Kh8 27.Red1 h5
+0,91	24. ... Ra6 25.f4 Nxd3 26.Rxd3 Re8 27.Nf5 Qe6
+0,98	24. ... Qf6 25.Bf1 Rad8 26.f4 Nc6 27.Nf5 Rfe8
+1,01	24. ... Qe6 25.Bc2 Kh8 26.Re2 Rad8 27.Red2 Rg8
+1,22	24. ... Qd8 25.Rd2 Kh8 26.Red1 Qe7 27.Bc2 Nc6
+1,40	24. ... Qc7 25.h5 Kh8 26.Bb1 gxh5 27.Qh4 f6
+2,22	24. ... Ra3 25.Nf5 Qc7 26.Bc2 Ra2 27.Rxd6 f6
+2,34	24. ... Nc6 25.Nf5 Qe5 26.f4 Qb2 27.Rb1 Qc3		<---- WASP
+2,52	24. ... h5 25.Be2 Kh8 26.f4 Nc6 27.Nd5 Qd8
+2,73	24. ... f6 25.Nf5 Qe6 26.Be2 Ra6 27.h5 g5
+2,76	24. ... Nd7 25.Bb1 Qe5 26.f4 Qc3 27.Qg5 Kh8

D=41
+2,52	25.Nf5 Qe5 26.f4 Qb2 27.Kh2 Bc8 28.Nxd6 Ra2		<---- Dragon
+1,47	25.Bb1 Kh8 26.Rxd6 Ra3 27.Nd5 Qe5 28.Qxe5+ Nxe5
+0,80	25.Nd5 Qd8 26.Ne3 Kh8 27.Bb1 Ne5 28.Rd2 Qe7

D=41
+3,01	26. ... Qb2 27.Kh2 Rad8 28.Bb1 Ba8 29.Re3 Kh8
+3,47	26. ... Qc3 27.Re3 Nd4 28.Nxd6 Qxb3 29.Rde1 Bc6		<---- WASP
+3,63	26. ... Qe6 27.Bb1 Nd4 28.Nxd4 cxd4 29.Rxd4 Qf6

D=38
+3,48	27. ... Nd4 28.Nxd6 Qxb3 29.Rde1 Bc6 30.f5 Qb2
+3,79	27. ... Qxb3 28.Rb1 Qc3 29.Nxd6 Ra3 30.e5 Nd4			<---- WASP
+3,98	27. ... Ra1 28.Rxa1 Qxa1+ 29.Kh2 Rd8 30.h5 Qf6
+4,04	27. ... Rfd8 28.h5 Ra1 29.Rxa1 Qxa1+ 30.Kh2 Bc8
+4,74	27. ... Bc8 28.Bf1 Qb2 29.Nh6+ Kh8 30.Rxd6 Qg7
+4,78	27. ... Rad8 28.Bf1 Qf6 29.Nxd6 Bc8 30.e5 Qg7

D=38
+3,70	28. ... Qc3 29.Nxd6 Ra3 30.e5 Nd4 31.Nxb7 Nc2
+4,42	28. ... Qa2 29.Nxd6 Nd4 30.Rf1 Bc6 31.f5 Qb2	<---- WASP

D=31
+4,50	29.Nxd6 Nd4 30.Rf1 Bc6 31.f5 Qb2 32.Kh2 b3
+3,44	29.Rf1 Rfd8 30.e5 Nd4 31.Nxd6 Qxg2+ 32.Qxg2 Bxg2
+3,22	29.h5 Ra3 30.Rbe1 Qb2 31.Nxd6 Ba8 32.Kh2 Qg7	<---- Dragon
+3,04	29.Rbe1 b3 30.Bb1 Qd2 31.Rd3 Qa5 32.Nxd6 Nd4
+3,04	29.Kh2 Qa5 30.Nxd6 Qc7 31.e5 Rad8 32.h5 Rxd6

D=33
+3,30	33. ... h6 34.Qg4 Ne5 35.fxe5 Qxe5+ 36.Qg3 Qxh5+
+4,07	33. ... f6 34.Qg4 Kh8 35.Rg3 Ne7 36.e5 f5
+4,62	33. ... Nd8 34.h6 Qb2 35.Qg3 Nc6 36.Nb5 Nd4		<---- WASP
+5,51	33. ... Ra2 34.Rg3 h6 35.Qxc5 Ra5 36.Nb5 Qf6
+5,76	33. ... Ra7 34.h6 Qd4 35.Nb5 Qd8 36.Qxd8 Rxd8

D=33
+5,72	36. ... Nd4 37.Rb1 Qd2 38.Nxa3 bxa3 39.Qe1 Qxe1
+7,13	36. ... Rb3 37.R1e2 Qf6 38.e5 Qd8 39.Bxg6 fxg6	<---- WASP
+7,22	36. ... Ra5 37.Qg5 Nd8 38.R3e2 Ne6 39.Rxb2 Nxg5
+7,27	36. ... Re8 37.R1e2 Qf6 38.Nxa3 bxa3 39.e5 Qe7
+7,32	36. ... Ne7 37.R1e2 Qa1 38.Nxa3 bxa3 39.Qg5 a2
jmartus
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 2:50 am

Re: A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by jmartus »

Frank Quisinsky wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:00 pm Hi Vivien,

that's great.

Ah Vivien, I played test games with your version 3.04.
Bug is fixed and your engine will definitiv participate in my next tourney.

Honestly, often it's frustrating if you looking in the games and you understand nothing.
And I believe I am strong chess player if I able to make 30% vs. Wasp on DGT Pi with the level 2325 Elo.

Maybe the time control for my tourneys is bad for watching the games during the games are still running.
45-minutes games aren't enough. I should give more time ... maybe 40 moves in 20 minutes?
To look into the games and not to understand moves ... or better to understand the moves ... 5 moves later ...
is definitiv frustrating.

Stockfish 11012021 is playing now 1.000 games vs. 40 opponents and lost ...
0 games! Komodo lost three games, 2x vs. Stockfish and 1x vs. Critter ... not more!

Frustrating for all the others!

Best
Frank
Put open tal 1.0 in your next tournament it's around 2700 elo
NoChessNoLife
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:06 pm
Full name: Lev Chen

Re: A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by NoChessNoLife »

Hi Frank,
Have you read My System by Nimzowitsch? This move 25.Nf5 is not difficult to see if you understand the principle of PIN. Also are you aware of the attacker's ratio 3 to 1? The move 25. Nf5 has the purpose to drive the queen away from the kingside and to help White to bring more pieces to attack on the kingside. Overall, I think that a strong GM would see this move 25.Nf5 without much difficulties.
OWL
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:20 am
Full name: Daan

Re: A bomb ... I try to understand a long time, a Dragon move vs. Wasp!

Post by OWL »

Well it is easy to say get pieces into the attack, but personally (2100 fide) Nf5 is one of the first moves to consider since it is a double attack on the queen and d6 pawn. However Qe5 is a very effective refutation, Qxe5 appears to yield little just bad bishop and no real future for the knight either. So Nf5 Qe5 f4?! Qc3! becomes the PV, Nxd6 followed by Qd4+, so Re3! is a strong move but these moves are very difficult Qxb3 and we are going to see the b3 pawn traded for the d6 pawn. I believe the point is to change the structure and allow for a possible e5 in the future and open up the bishop.

However it is not practical to play a move like Nf5 which needs a lot of calculation, 25. Bb1 should be considered first since it attacks d6 directly, after 25... Nd4 we have Nf5! and we either win a pawn or 26... Qe5 f4 Nxf5 gf5 Qc3 Re3 Qb2 fg6 hg6 h5 and we have a good attack, on 25... Rfd8 we have also have Nf5 with similar motives.

So the idea of Nf5 (and Bb1) is quite simple activate the bishop, the white bishop is not doing much and taking out the d6 pawn gives the chance to later play e5 and open the b1-h7 diagonal