This is a clear win for white and I do not know why you use a weak engine to find the theoretical resultChessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:17 amlkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:18 pmRight now I'm more interested in figuring out how the engine should play down a piece rather than how the human should play up a piece, which of course partly depends on what openings the human is familiar with in normal chess. Maybe after we've had many Dragon vs. GM knight odds matches it will be possible to determine what works best for the humans.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:59 am Will you write a chess opening book for Knight Odds on how to play Vs engines, since even IM like Andras is having a hard time to play Vs Komodo Dragon 2 ==> https://www.chess.com/article/view/gm-l ... white-book
Or these three pawns Odds as White to a Human IM which ended up in a draw too
[d]r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/P2PPP1P/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
These three pawns could be the same as a Knight odds after all,so the misconception that a Knight is worth more than three pawns in the beginning turn out that if you let the engine play the position, it is really only worth 3 pawns; and possibly Komodo Dragon2 could give those three pawns Odds as Black to an IM.
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit-bmi2"]
[Black "Komodo-13.3-64bit-bmi2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3400"]
[Time "13:36:52"]
[WhiteElo "3400"]
[TimeControl "5400+5"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/p2ppp1p/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "144"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 Bg7 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. O-O d5 5. d3 O-O 6. c3 Rb8 7. b3 Re8 8.
Bg5 h6 9. Be3 e5 10. Qc1 Kh7 11. c4 Be6 12. Rd1 Rc8 13. Rb1 Qc7 14. Bc5 Kg8
15. h3 Ne7 16. Bb4 Nc6 17. Bc3 a5 18. Nh4 Bf8 19. Rf1 Bg7 20. Rd1 Qb6 21.
e3 Qa7 22. Ra1 Qd7 23. Kh2 Rb8 24. Qb2 Qd6 25. Rac1 Bd7 26. Qd2 a4 27. bxa4
Rb7 28. a5 Ra7 29. Qe1 Rc8 30. a4 dxc4 31. dxc4 Qc5 32. f4 Be6 33. e4 Re8
34. Rd3 Kh7 35. Nf3 Nd7 36. Bd2 Qe7 37. Qe3 Nf6 38. Nxe5 Nxe5 39. fxe5 Ng8
40. c5 Rb8 41. Rd6 Rb2 42. Qc3 Ra2 43. Ra1 Rxd2 44. Rxd2 Qc7 45. Rd5 Ne7
46. c6 Qxc6 47. Qc5 Qa8 48. Rf1 Ng6 49. Rf5 Rb7 50. Qf2 Kg8 51. Qd4 Qa7 52.
Qxa7 Rxa7 53. Rb5 Bxf5 54. exf5 Nxe5 55. Bb7 Kf8 56. a6 Bf6 57. Kg2 Nc4 58.
Kf3 Nd6 59. Kg4 Bg5 60. Rb6 Ke7 61. h4 Be3 62. Rb3 Bd2 63. Rb2 Bc3 64. Rb3
Ba5 65. Kh5 Nxf5 66. Rb5 Nxg3+ 67. Kxh6 Bd2+ 68. Kg7 Ke6 69. Bc8+ Kd6 70.
Bb7 Ke6 71. Bc8+ Kd6 72. Bb7 Ke6 {3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
Edit:I replied to the wrong post but I believe that a piece is more than 3 pawns in the opening.
Maybe even more than 4 pawns based on my limited test between stockfish and stockfish.
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.06.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_21062123_x64_avx2"]
[Black "stockfish_21062123_x64_avx2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/P2PPP1P/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[GameDuration "00:20:08"]
[GameEndTime "2021-06-22T08:16:42.291 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[GameStartTime "2021-06-22T07:56:33.996 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[PlyCount "171"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]
1. Nc3 {+2.06/32 25s} e6 {-2.04/30 33s} 2. Bg2 {+2.08/24 2.5s}
Rb8 {-1.91/28 9.9s} 3. Rb1 {+1.96/26 4.2s} a6 {-1.89/25 2.2s}
4. d4 {+2.09/25 5.0s} b5 {-1.94/25 3.0s} 5. Qc2 {+2.09/27 11s} f5 {-1.83/29 20s}
6. Na4 {+2.03/28 5.3s} d6 {-2.15/27 6.8s} 7. Nh3 {+2.14/27 5.5s}
Nf6 {-2.07/27 2.9s} 8. O-O {+2.15/27 3.9s} Bd7 {-2.03/31 13s}
9. Nb2 {+2.23/26 3.0s} Be7 {-2.14/27 1.8s} 10. Nd3 {+2.09/25 6.2s}
O-O {-2.13/26 3.4s} 11. Kh1 {+2.29/29 24s} c5 {-2.02/27 3.3s}
12. dxc5 {+2.20/27 2.2s} dxc5 {-2.26/30 8.3s} 13. Bf4 {+2.23/29 5.5s}
c4 {-2.27/27 3.0s} 14. Ne5 {+2.30/30 7.0s} Rb6 {-2.43/33 26s}
15. Rbd1 {+2.34/27 3.3s} Qc8 {-2.41/28 2.1s} 16. Nxd7 {+2.42/28 6.5s}
Nxd7 {-2.30/30 3.4s} 17. e4 {+2.46/28 5.4s} Nc5 {-2.23/30 5.0s}
18. exf5 {+2.46/28 5.0s} Rxf5 {-2.21/26 3.3s} 19. Be3 {+2.47/29 15s}
Rd6 {-2.65/27 9.7s} 20. Rxd6 {+2.53/27 5.6s} Bxd6 {-2.36/27 3.4s}
21. Rd1 {+2.56/26 3.5s} Be7 {-2.56/30 21s} 22. Qe2 {+2.69/27 4.2s}
g6 {-2.84/30 17s} 23. Nf4 {+2.91/25 3.9s} Rf6 {-2.98/31 17s}
24. h4 {+2.90/28 4.2s} Qc7 {-2.96/30 1.7s} 25. Nh3 {+2.90/30 5.4s}
Rf7 {-2.85/27 2.5s} 26. Ng5 {+2.98/28 4.9s} Bxg5 {-3.07/29 5.0s}
27. hxg5 {+3.15/29 5.6s} Nd3 {-3.18/30 3.9s} 28. Be4 {+3.25/29 4.9s}
Nf4 {-3.01/27 2.8s} 29. Qg4 {+3.22/28 5.1s} c3 {-3.12/31 19s}
30. Kg1 {+3.26/31 5.3s} Kg7 {-3.00/31 5.7s} 31. Rd4 {+3.23/33 9.2s}
Qe5 {-3.19/31 2.1s} 32. Bc2 {+3.50/33 7.6s} Nd5 {-3.15/32 3.2s}
33. Re4 {+3.19/38 12s} Nxe3 {-3.23/31 2.6s} 34. Rxe3 {+3.43/37 11s}
Qd6 {-3.36/31 3.3s} 35. Qh4 {+3.51/39 27s} Qf4 {-3.30/31 8.4s}
36. Qxf4 {+3.53/39 5.4s} Rxf4 {-3.38/31 2.2s} 37. Rxc3 {+3.53/39 5.4s}
Rg4+ {-3.23/34 2.9s} 38. Rg3 {+3.54/38 8.4s} Rc4 {-3.22/35 4.8s}
39. Bb3 {+3.54/37 4.6s} Re4 {-3.43/34 3.9s} 40. f3 {+3.57/33 4.5s}
Re5 {-3.31/33 5.5s} 41. Rg4 {+3.46/36 7.6s} a5 {-3.23/32 4.7s}
42. Kf2 {+3.54/35 4.6s} b4 {-3.65/35 18s} 43. Kg3 {+3.72/34 4.7s}
Kh8 {-4.44/37 61s} 44. Kh4 {+3.92/33 8.7s} Rf5 {-4.62/33 10.0s}
45. Bd1 {+4.12/33 8.2s} Rd5 {-4.47/32 11s} 46. Bc2 {+4.45/35 37s}
Rc5 {-4.49/36 22s} 47. Rg2 {+4.49/30 3.6s} Rc3 {-4.36/36 31s}
48. Kg4 {+4.56/33 4.6s} e5 {-4.43/33 2.7s} 49. Re2 {+4.54/36 5.5s}
Rc4+ {-4.78/36 5.3s} 50. Kg3 {+4.96/36 8.3s} Rc7 {-4.87/37 5.2s}
51. Bb3 {+5.16/33 5.5s} Re7 {-5.17/31 8.2s} 52. Rd2 {+5.30/29 6.4s}
h6 {-4.78/31 4.1s} 53. Rh2 {+5.30/31 4.9s} h5 {-5.22/31 8.6s}
54. Re2 {+5.51/34 14s} Kg7 {-5.80/33 28s} 55. Re4 {+5.71/29 5.2s}
Ra7 {-5.92/31 3.6s} 56. Ba4 {+5.96/31 7.2s} Re7 {-5.93/35 2.2s}
57. Rc4 {+6.08/31 7.1s} Rf7 {-6.01/33 5.0s} 58. Bc2 {+6.33/27 5.6s}
h4+ {-6.01/29 5.7s} 59. Rxh4 {+6.71/27 6.2s} Rc7 {-6.21/29 3.4s}
60. Rh2 {+6.99/26 6.1s} Ra7 {-6.66/29 19s} 61. Re2 {+7.46/28 8.7s}
Rc7 {-7.47/29 10s} 62. Bb3 {+7.69/28 8.4s} Re7 {-7.47/28 1.3s}
63. Re4 {+7.84/28 6.0s} Kh8 {-7.61/28 4.3s} 64. Rc4 {+8.02/32 6.6s}
Ra7 {-7.69/25 2.3s} 65. Ba4 {+8.50/29 11s} Kg7 {-8.15/27 7.1s}
66. Rc6 {+9.07/26 8.6s} Rd7 {-8.45/24 3.6s} 67. Bc2 {+9.66/24 6.5s}
Rd2 {-9.07/21 3.6s} 68. Rxg6+ {+10.58/25 5.7s} Kf8 {-9.07/21 0.97s}
69. Rc6 {+11.51/23 7.4s} Ke7 {-10.15/20 3.6s} 70. g6 {+12.63/24 6.3s}
Kd7 {-11.28/18 2.2s} 71. Be4 {+14.54/26 6.5s} Ke7 {-12.36/20 1.2s}
72. Ra6 {+59.23/35 6.1s} Rd8 {-12.85/18 0.68s} 73. Kg4 {+66.89/37 5.8s}
Rh8 {-13.18/18 0.35s} 74. Kg5 {+M41/39 16s} a4 {-13.25/16 0.11s}
75. Rxa4 {+M35/45 4.3s} Rh2 {-14.31/15 0.12s} 76. Ra7+ {+M29/53 11s}
Ke6 {-12.56/16 0.040s} 77. Bf5+ {+M19/63 3.4s} Kd5 {-56.73/15 0.033s}
78. g7 {+M17/68 5.0s} Rg2+ {-67.92/12 0.018s} 79. Bg4 {+M15/80 3.7s}
Kd4 {-69.87/16 0.015s} 80. g8=Q {+M13/84 2.4s} Ke3 {-M32/14 0.013s}
81. Qb3+ {+M11/147 6.4s} Kf2 {-M10/245 3.4s} 82. Rd7 {+M9/245 2.7s}
e4 {-M8/245 0.063s} 83. fxe4 {+M7/245 0.022s} Rxg4+ {-M6/245 0.008s}
84. Kxg4 {+M5/245 0.006s} Ke1 {-M4/245 0.006s} 85. Rd1+ {+M3/245 0.004s}
Kf2 {-M2/245 0.003s} 86. Qf3# {+M1/245 0.003s, White mates} 1-0
[/pgn]