Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

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Uri Blass
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by Uri Blass »

Chessqueen wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:17 am
lkaufman wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:18 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:59 am Will you write a chess opening book for Knight Odds on how to play Vs engines, since even IM like Andras is having a hard time to play Vs Komodo Dragon 2 ==> https://www.chess.com/article/view/gm-l ... white-book
Right now I'm more interested in figuring out how the engine should play down a piece rather than how the human should play up a piece, which of course partly depends on what openings the human is familiar with in normal chess. Maybe after we've had many Dragon vs. GM knight odds matches it will be possible to determine what works best for the humans.

Or these three pawns Odds as White to a Human IM which ended up in a draw too :roll:

[d]r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/P2PPP1P/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
These three pawns could be the same as a Knight odds after all,so the misconception that a Knight is worth more than three pawns in the beginning turn out that if you let the engine play the position, it is really only worth 3 pawns; and possibly Komodo Dragon2 could give those three pawns Odds as Black to an IM.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit-bmi2"]
[Black "Komodo-13.3-64bit-bmi2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3400"]
[Time "13:36:52"]
[WhiteElo "3400"]
[TimeControl "5400+5"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/p2ppp1p/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "144"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 Bg7 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. O-O d5 5. d3 O-O 6. c3 Rb8 7. b3 Re8 8.
Bg5 h6 9. Be3 e5 10. Qc1 Kh7 11. c4 Be6 12. Rd1 Rc8 13. Rb1 Qc7 14. Bc5 Kg8
15. h3 Ne7 16. Bb4 Nc6 17. Bc3 a5 18. Nh4 Bf8 19. Rf1 Bg7 20. Rd1 Qb6 21.
e3 Qa7 22. Ra1 Qd7 23. Kh2 Rb8 24. Qb2 Qd6 25. Rac1 Bd7 26. Qd2 a4 27. bxa4
Rb7 28. a5 Ra7 29. Qe1 Rc8 30. a4 dxc4 31. dxc4 Qc5 32. f4 Be6 33. e4 Re8
34. Rd3 Kh7 35. Nf3 Nd7 36. Bd2 Qe7 37. Qe3 Nf6 38. Nxe5 Nxe5 39. fxe5 Ng8
40. c5 Rb8 41. Rd6 Rb2 42. Qc3 Ra2 43. Ra1 Rxd2 44. Rxd2 Qc7 45. Rd5 Ne7
46. c6 Qxc6 47. Qc5 Qa8 48. Rf1 Ng6 49. Rf5 Rb7 50. Qf2 Kg8 51. Qd4 Qa7 52.
Qxa7 Rxa7 53. Rb5 Bxf5 54. exf5 Nxe5 55. Bb7 Kf8 56. a6 Bf6 57. Kg2 Nc4 58.
Kf3 Nd6 59. Kg4 Bg5 60. Rb6 Ke7 61. h4 Be3 62. Rb3 Bd2 63. Rb2 Bc3 64. Rb3
Ba5 65. Kh5 Nxf5 66. Rb5 Nxg3+ 67. Kxh6 Bd2+ 68. Kg7 Ke6 69. Bc8+ Kd6 70.
Bb7 Ke6 71. Bc8+ Kd6 72. Bb7 Ke6 {3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
This is a clear win for white and I do not know why you use a weak engine to find the theoretical result
Edit:I replied to the wrong post but I believe that a piece is more than 3 pawns in the opening.
Maybe even more than 4 pawns based on my limited test between stockfish and stockfish.

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.06.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_21062123_x64_avx2"]
[Black "stockfish_21062123_x64_avx2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/P2PPP1P/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[GameDuration "00:20:08"]
[GameEndTime "2021-06-22T08:16:42.291 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[GameStartTime "2021-06-22T07:56:33.996 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[PlyCount "171"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]

1. Nc3 {+2.06/32 25s} e6 {-2.04/30 33s} 2. Bg2 {+2.08/24 2.5s}
Rb8 {-1.91/28 9.9s} 3. Rb1 {+1.96/26 4.2s} a6 {-1.89/25 2.2s}
4. d4 {+2.09/25 5.0s} b5 {-1.94/25 3.0s} 5. Qc2 {+2.09/27 11s} f5 {-1.83/29 20s}
6. Na4 {+2.03/28 5.3s} d6 {-2.15/27 6.8s} 7. Nh3 {+2.14/27 5.5s}
Nf6 {-2.07/27 2.9s} 8. O-O {+2.15/27 3.9s} Bd7 {-2.03/31 13s}
9. Nb2 {+2.23/26 3.0s} Be7 {-2.14/27 1.8s} 10. Nd3 {+2.09/25 6.2s}
O-O {-2.13/26 3.4s} 11. Kh1 {+2.29/29 24s} c5 {-2.02/27 3.3s}
12. dxc5 {+2.20/27 2.2s} dxc5 {-2.26/30 8.3s} 13. Bf4 {+2.23/29 5.5s}
c4 {-2.27/27 3.0s} 14. Ne5 {+2.30/30 7.0s} Rb6 {-2.43/33 26s}
15. Rbd1 {+2.34/27 3.3s} Qc8 {-2.41/28 2.1s} 16. Nxd7 {+2.42/28 6.5s}
Nxd7 {-2.30/30 3.4s} 17. e4 {+2.46/28 5.4s} Nc5 {-2.23/30 5.0s}
18. exf5 {+2.46/28 5.0s} Rxf5 {-2.21/26 3.3s} 19. Be3 {+2.47/29 15s}
Rd6 {-2.65/27 9.7s} 20. Rxd6 {+2.53/27 5.6s} Bxd6 {-2.36/27 3.4s}
21. Rd1 {+2.56/26 3.5s} Be7 {-2.56/30 21s} 22. Qe2 {+2.69/27 4.2s}
g6 {-2.84/30 17s} 23. Nf4 {+2.91/25 3.9s} Rf6 {-2.98/31 17s}
24. h4 {+2.90/28 4.2s} Qc7 {-2.96/30 1.7s} 25. Nh3 {+2.90/30 5.4s}
Rf7 {-2.85/27 2.5s} 26. Ng5 {+2.98/28 4.9s} Bxg5 {-3.07/29 5.0s}
27. hxg5 {+3.15/29 5.6s} Nd3 {-3.18/30 3.9s} 28. Be4 {+3.25/29 4.9s}
Nf4 {-3.01/27 2.8s} 29. Qg4 {+3.22/28 5.1s} c3 {-3.12/31 19s}
30. Kg1 {+3.26/31 5.3s} Kg7 {-3.00/31 5.7s} 31. Rd4 {+3.23/33 9.2s}
Qe5 {-3.19/31 2.1s} 32. Bc2 {+3.50/33 7.6s} Nd5 {-3.15/32 3.2s}
33. Re4 {+3.19/38 12s} Nxe3 {-3.23/31 2.6s} 34. Rxe3 {+3.43/37 11s}
Qd6 {-3.36/31 3.3s} 35. Qh4 {+3.51/39 27s} Qf4 {-3.30/31 8.4s}
36. Qxf4 {+3.53/39 5.4s} Rxf4 {-3.38/31 2.2s} 37. Rxc3 {+3.53/39 5.4s}
Rg4+ {-3.23/34 2.9s} 38. Rg3 {+3.54/38 8.4s} Rc4 {-3.22/35 4.8s}
39. Bb3 {+3.54/37 4.6s} Re4 {-3.43/34 3.9s} 40. f3 {+3.57/33 4.5s}
Re5 {-3.31/33 5.5s} 41. Rg4 {+3.46/36 7.6s} a5 {-3.23/32 4.7s}
42. Kf2 {+3.54/35 4.6s} b4 {-3.65/35 18s} 43. Kg3 {+3.72/34 4.7s}
Kh8 {-4.44/37 61s} 44. Kh4 {+3.92/33 8.7s} Rf5 {-4.62/33 10.0s}
45. Bd1 {+4.12/33 8.2s} Rd5 {-4.47/32 11s} 46. Bc2 {+4.45/35 37s}
Rc5 {-4.49/36 22s} 47. Rg2 {+4.49/30 3.6s} Rc3 {-4.36/36 31s}
48. Kg4 {+4.56/33 4.6s} e5 {-4.43/33 2.7s} 49. Re2 {+4.54/36 5.5s}
Rc4+ {-4.78/36 5.3s} 50. Kg3 {+4.96/36 8.3s} Rc7 {-4.87/37 5.2s}
51. Bb3 {+5.16/33 5.5s} Re7 {-5.17/31 8.2s} 52. Rd2 {+5.30/29 6.4s}
h6 {-4.78/31 4.1s} 53. Rh2 {+5.30/31 4.9s} h5 {-5.22/31 8.6s}
54. Re2 {+5.51/34 14s} Kg7 {-5.80/33 28s} 55. Re4 {+5.71/29 5.2s}
Ra7 {-5.92/31 3.6s} 56. Ba4 {+5.96/31 7.2s} Re7 {-5.93/35 2.2s}
57. Rc4 {+6.08/31 7.1s} Rf7 {-6.01/33 5.0s} 58. Bc2 {+6.33/27 5.6s}
h4+ {-6.01/29 5.7s} 59. Rxh4 {+6.71/27 6.2s} Rc7 {-6.21/29 3.4s}
60. Rh2 {+6.99/26 6.1s} Ra7 {-6.66/29 19s} 61. Re2 {+7.46/28 8.7s}
Rc7 {-7.47/29 10s} 62. Bb3 {+7.69/28 8.4s} Re7 {-7.47/28 1.3s}
63. Re4 {+7.84/28 6.0s} Kh8 {-7.61/28 4.3s} 64. Rc4 {+8.02/32 6.6s}
Ra7 {-7.69/25 2.3s} 65. Ba4 {+8.50/29 11s} Kg7 {-8.15/27 7.1s}
66. Rc6 {+9.07/26 8.6s} Rd7 {-8.45/24 3.6s} 67. Bc2 {+9.66/24 6.5s}
Rd2 {-9.07/21 3.6s} 68. Rxg6+ {+10.58/25 5.7s} Kf8 {-9.07/21 0.97s}
69. Rc6 {+11.51/23 7.4s} Ke7 {-10.15/20 3.6s} 70. g6 {+12.63/24 6.3s}
Kd7 {-11.28/18 2.2s} 71. Be4 {+14.54/26 6.5s} Ke7 {-12.36/20 1.2s}
72. Ra6 {+59.23/35 6.1s} Rd8 {-12.85/18 0.68s} 73. Kg4 {+66.89/37 5.8s}
Rh8 {-13.18/18 0.35s} 74. Kg5 {+M41/39 16s} a4 {-13.25/16 0.11s}
75. Rxa4 {+M35/45 4.3s} Rh2 {-14.31/15 0.12s} 76. Ra7+ {+M29/53 11s}
Ke6 {-12.56/16 0.040s} 77. Bf5+ {+M19/63 3.4s} Kd5 {-56.73/15 0.033s}
78. g7 {+M17/68 5.0s} Rg2+ {-67.92/12 0.018s} 79. Bg4 {+M15/80 3.7s}
Kd4 {-69.87/16 0.015s} 80. g8=Q {+M13/84 2.4s} Ke3 {-M32/14 0.013s}
81. Qb3+ {+M11/147 6.4s} Kf2 {-M10/245 3.4s} 82. Rd7 {+M9/245 2.7s}
e4 {-M8/245 0.063s} 83. fxe4 {+M7/245 0.022s} Rxg4+ {-M6/245 0.008s}
84. Kxg4 {+M5/245 0.006s} Ke1 {-M4/245 0.006s} 85. Rd1+ {+M3/245 0.004s}
Kf2 {-M2/245 0.003s} 86. Qf3# {+M1/245 0.003s, White mates} 1-0

[/pgn]
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Nordlandia
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by Nordlandia »

The complexity of Fischer Random may to an extent compensate knight odds for Dragon. Perhaps it allow Dragon to play Black.
lkaufman
Posts: 5960
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Location: Maryland USA

Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by lkaufman »

Nordlandia wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:56 am The complexity of Fischer Random may to an extent compensate knight odds for Dragon. Perhaps it allow Dragon to play Black.
We've already shown that Komodo can indeed give knight odds in Fischer Random (as white) at 15' +10" Rapid to a rather strong GM, Alex Lenderman, with reasonably balanced chances. And that was a year ago, before NNUE and Dragon.
Komodo rules!
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Nordlandia
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by Nordlandia »

lkaufman wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:33 pm
Nordlandia wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:56 am The complexity of Fischer Random may to an extent compensate knight odds for Dragon. Perhaps it allow Dragon to play Black.
We've already shown that Komodo can indeed give knight odds in Fischer Random (as white) at 15' +10" Rapid to a rather strong GM, Alex Lenderman, with reasonably balanced chances. And that was a year ago, before NNUE and Dragon.
Is it likely a stronger GM might counterbalance NNUE advancement and play on equal conditions as Lenderman compared to pre-NNUE and Dragon.
Chessqueen
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by Chessqueen »

Uri Blass wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:18 am
Chessqueen wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:17 am
lkaufman wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:18 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:59 am Will you write a chess opening book for Knight Odds on how to play Vs engines, since even IM like Andras is having a hard time to play Vs Komodo Dragon 2 ==> https://www.chess.com/article/view/gm-l ... white-book
Right now I'm more interested in figuring out how the engine should play down a piece rather than how the human should play up a piece, which of course partly depends on what openings the human is familiar with in normal chess. Maybe after we've had many Dragon vs. GM knight odds matches it will be possible to determine what works best for the humans.

This is a clear win for white and I do not know why you use a weak engine to find the theoretical result
Edit:I replied to the wrong post but I believe that a piece is more than 3 pawns in the opening.
Maybe even more than 4 pawns based on my limited test between stockfish and stockfish.

Not really it depend who play first the side with the Knight or the side with the 3 extra pawns :roll:
I also run another test with this position and it ended up in a draw

[d]rnbqkbnr/p2ppp1p/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1 ]

Not really it depend who play first the side with the Knight or the side with the 3 extra pawns :roll:
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "07:56:13"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/p2pp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "236"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. e4 Bb7 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. e5 Nd5 4. Nxd5 Bxd5 5. d4 Nc6 6. c4 Bf7 7. Be3 Rb8
8. Be2 e6 9. O-O Be7 10. f4 Qa5 11. Rf2 Rxb2 12. d5 exd5 13. cxd5 Qxd5 14.
Qxd5 Bxd5 15. Bh5+ g6 16. Bxg6+ hxg6 17. Rxb2 Kf7 18. Rd1 Be6 19. a4 Nb4
20. Bxa7 Ra8 21. Bb6 Rxa4 22. Rbd2 Ke8 23. h3 Ra3 24. Kh2 Nc6 25. Rd3 Ra2
26. Be3 Bb4 27. Bd2 Be7 28. Be3 Rb2 29. R1d2 Rb4 30. Rd1 Re4 31. Bc1 Rc4
32. Be3 Bf5 33. R3d2 Re4 34. Rd3 Ra4 35. R3d2 Re4 36. Rd3 Rc4 37. R3d2 Bb4
38. Rf2 Rc3 39. Re2 Be6 40. Bb6 Rb3 41. Bf2 Ba5 42. Rc2 Bd8 43. Rd6 Bf5 44.
Re2 Be7 45. Rd1 Be6 46. g4 Rf3 47. Be3 Bb3 48. Rdd2 Rf1 49. Bf2 Bb4 50. Rb2
Bd5 51. Kg3 Ra1 52. h4 Kf7 53. Re3 Rd1 54. f5 gxf5 55. gxf5 Bd2 56. e6+
dxe6 57. fxe6+ Kf6 58. h5 Bxe3 59. Bxe3 Re1 60. Bc5 Kxe6 61. h6 Be4 62. Rd2
Rh1 63. Rh2 Rf1 64. Rd2 Ne5 65. Rd6+ Kf5 66. h7 Rh1 67. Bd4 Rxh7 68. Bxe5
Kxe5 69. Rd8 Rg7+ 70. Kf2 Bb1 71. Ke3 Rg3+ 72. Kd2 Bg6 73. Ra8 Be4 74. Ra4
Rd3+ 75. Ke2 Rb3 76. Kd2 Bd3 77. Ra7 Bc4 78. Rh7 Bd5 79. Kc2 Rf3 80. Rh4
Be4+ 81. Kb2 Kd5 82. Ka2 Kd4 83. Kb2 Ke5 84. Rh8 Kd4 85. Rh4 Ke5 86. Rh5+
Bf5 87. Rh4 Kd5 88. Rb4 Bd3 89. Ka3 Bc2+ 90. Kb2 Kc5 91. Rh4 Bb3 92. Rh8
Re3 93. Rh4 Rg3 94. Rh7 Bc4 95. Rh8 Bf1 96. Rc8+ Kb4 97. Kc1 Rg2 98. Rc2
Be2 99. Kb2 Rh2 100. Kc1 Kb3 101. Rb2+ Kc4 102. Rc2+ Kb3 103. Rb2+ Kc4 104.
Rc2+ Kd5 105. Rd2+ Kc5 106. Kb2 Rf2 107. Rc2+ Kb4 108. Ka2 Rh2 109. Kb2 Rf2
110. Ka2 Rg2 111. Kb2 Rh2 112. Rd2 Kc5 113. Kc1 Rh1+ 114. Kb2 Rh2 115. Kc3
Rh3+ 116. Kc2 Bf1 117. Rd1 Be2 118. Ra1 Bd1+ {50 moves rule} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
lkaufman
Posts: 5960
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA

Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by lkaufman »

Nordlandia wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:54 pm
lkaufman wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:33 pm
Nordlandia wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:56 am The complexity of Fischer Random may to an extent compensate knight odds for Dragon. Perhaps it allow Dragon to play Black.
We've already shown that Komodo can indeed give knight odds in Fischer Random (as white) at 15' +10" Rapid to a rather strong GM, Alex Lenderman, with reasonably balanced chances. And that was a year ago, before NNUE and Dragon.
Is it likely a stronger GM might counterbalance NNUE advancement and play on equal conditions as Lenderman compared to pre-NNUE and Dragon.
Sure, I imagine that Magnus Carlsen, Wesley So, or Hikaru Nakamura would still win a match from the latest Dragon at Fischer Random knight Odds Rapid, though it might be close if Armageddon scoring (odds-giver wins draws).
Komodo rules!
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by Chessqueen »

Chessqueen wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:57 pm
Uri Blass wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:18 am
Chessqueen wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:17 am
lkaufman wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:18 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:59 am Will you write a chess opening book for Knight Odds on how to play Vs engines, since even IM like Andras is having a hard time to play Vs Komodo Dragon 2 ==> https://www.chess.com/article/view/gm-l ... white-book
Right now I'm more interested in figuring out how the engine should play down a piece rather than how the human should play up a piece, which of course partly depends on what openings the human is familiar with in normal chess. Maybe after we've had many Dragon vs. GM knight odds matches it will be possible to determine what works best for the humans.

This is a clear win for white and I do not know why you use a weak engine to find the theoretical result
Edit:I replied to the wrong post but I believe that a piece is more than 3 pawns in the opening.
Maybe even more than 4 pawns based on my limited test between stockfish and stockfish.


Here on youtube.com you can see GM Nakamura drawing versus Komodo with two pawns Odds. Very soon you will be able to give Nakamura 3 pawns Odds


Not really it depend who play first the side with the Knight or the side with the 3 extra pawns :roll:

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "10:08:37"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/p2ppp1p/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "288"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 d5 2. g3 Nc6 3. Bg2 Bb7 4. O-O Bg7 5. c3 Nf6 6. Nd2 O-O 7. e4 Nxe4 8.
Nxe4 dxe4 9. Re1 e5 10. Rxe4 Ne7 11. Rh4 Bxg2 12. Qh5 Be4 13. Rxe4 Ng6 14.
dxe5 Qd5 15. Rd4 Qxe5 16. Qxe5 Nxe5 17. Kg2 a5 18. Rb1 Rfc8 19. h4 a4 20.
Rd5 Rd8 21. Rxd8+ Rxd8 22. b3 axb3 23. Rxb3 Ra8 24. h5 Bf8 25. Rb5 f6 26.
Be3 Nc4 27. Bd4 Nd6 28. Rc5 Ne8 29. Rb5 Rxa2 30. Rb8 Re2 31. Be3 Ng7 32.
Kf3 Ra2 33. c4 Ne6 34. Ke4 Kf7 35. g4 Ra4 36. Kd3 Ra2 37. Rb7+ Be7 38. c5
Nd8 39. Rc7 Ra3+ 40. Ke2 Ne6 41. Rc8 Ra4 42. f3 Bxc5 43. Rxc5 Nxc5 44. Bxc5
f5 45. g5 f4 46. Kf1 Ra6 47. Kg2 Ra5 48. g6+ hxg6 49. hxg6+ Kxg6 50. Bd6
Kg5 51. Be7+ Kh6 52. Bf8+ Kg5 53. Be7+ Kh6 54. Bd6 Ra2+ 55. Kf1 Ra1+ 56.
Kf2 Ra2+ 57. Kf1 Ra1+ 58. Kf2 Ra4 59. Kg2 Kg5 60. Be5 Ra8 61. Kf1 Re8 62.
Bd6 Re6 63. Bc7 Rc6 64. Be5 Rh6 65. Bc7 Rh1+ 66. Kg2 Ra1 67. Bd6 Rb1 68.
Be7+ Kh6 69. Bd6 Rb2+ 70. Kf1 Kg5 71. Be7+ Kh6 72. Bf8+ Kg5 73. Bd6 Rb1+
74. Kg2 Rd1 75. Be5 Rd2+ 76. Kf1 Rd1+ 77. Kg2 Rd7 78. Kf1 Rb7 79. Bd6 Rb1+
80. Kg2 Ra1 81. Bc7 Rc1 82. Be5 Rc4 83. Bd6 Rc1 84. Be5 Rd1 85. Bb8 Ra1
86. Be5 Rc1 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by Chessqueen »

lkaufman wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:28 pm
Nordlandia wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:54 pm
lkaufman wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:33 pm
Nordlandia wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:56 am The complexity of Fischer Random may to an extent compensate knight odds for Dragon. Perhaps it allow Dragon to play Black.
We've already shown that Komodo can indeed give knight odds in Fischer Random (as white) at 15' +10" Rapid to a rather strong GM, Alex Lenderman, with reasonably balanced chances. And that was a year ago, before NNUE and Dragon.
Is it likely a stronger GM might counterbalance NNUE advancement and play on equal conditions as Lenderman compared to pre-NNUE and Dragon.
Sure, I imagine that Magnus Carlsen, Wesley So, or Hikaru Nakamura would still win a match from the latest Dragon at Fischer Random knight Odds Rapid, though it might be close if Armageddon scoring (odds-giver wins draws).
GM SO is the most to be feared at Fischer Random. I noticed that 130 Elo difference is all that it takes to either draw or win giving the same starting position, here is the difference between Stockfish playing this position as Black or Igel 3.0.5 playing the same position as Black. For those who have Komodo Dragon2 MCTS test this position to see if Komodo Dragon as Black can win or at least draw against Stockfish 13. This is where IM Kaufman can prove his theory about Komodo Dragon2 MCTS being the best as Odds. :?: :roll:

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Igel-x64_bmi2_avx2_3_0_5"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3480"]
[Time "13:39:58"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/p2ppp1p/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "140"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c4 Nc6 2. Nc3 Bg7 3. e3 Nf6 4. d4 Rb8 5. Qa4 O-O 6. Be2 Bb7 7. d5 Ne5 8.
e4 e6 9. O-O a6 10. h3 d6 11. Qc2 exd5 12. exd5 Bc8 13. b3 Ng6 14. Rb1 Re8
15. Bd2 Rb7 16. Rfe1 Re5 17. Rbd1 Rbe7 18. Bf1 Bf5 19. Qc1 Rxe1 20. Rxe1
Ne5 21. Qa3 Nfd7 22. Re3 Nc5 23. Rg3 Kh8 24. b4 Ncd3 25. Qxa6 Bc8 26. Qb5
Rb7 27. Qa5 Qxa5 28. bxa5 Rb2 29. Be3 Ba6 30. Bd4 Nc5 31. Nb5 Rd2 32. Bc3
Rxa2 33. Nxd6 Ng6 34. Nxf7+ Kg8 35. Bxg7 Kxg7 36. Nd6 Rxa5 37. Rf3 Ra1 38.
Rf7+ Kg8 39. Ra7 Nf4 40. Ra8+ Kg7 41. Nf5+ Kf7 42. Ne3 h5 43. h4 Ne4 44. d6
Nd2 45. d7 Ne6 46. Re8 Nxf1 47. Nd5 Nd2+ 48. Kh2 Bxc4 49. Re7+ Kf8 50. Rxe6
Nf1+ 51. Kh3 Ra8 52. Rc6 Bxd5 53. Rc8+ Kf7 54. Rxa8 Be6+ 55. g4 Bxd7 56.
Ra7 Ke7 57. Kg2 Nd2 58. g5 Ne4 59. Kf3 Nc5 60. Ke3 Ne6 61. g6 Kd6 62. Ke4
Nc5+ 63. Kf4 Be6 64. g7 Bg8 65. Ra8 Bf7 66. Ke3 Kd5 67. g8=Q Bxg8 68. Rxg8
Ne6 69. Ra8 Ng7 70. Ra5+ Kd6 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]
Last edited by Chessqueen on Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:02 am, edited 6 times in total.
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by Chessqueen »

Now if you let Igel 3.0.5 play the same position as Black against the same opponent Stockfish you will notice that 130 Elo points is all that it take to either win or draw. For those who have Komodo Dragon2 MCTS test this position to see if Komodo Dragon as Black can win or at least draw against Stockfish 13. This is where IM Kaufman can prove his theory about Komodo Dragon2 MCTS being the best as Odds. :roll:

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.06.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Stockfish_21052415_x64_bmi2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "10:08:37"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/p2ppp1p/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "288"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 d5 2. g3 Nc6 3. Bg2 Bb7 4. O-O Bg7 5. c3 Nf6 6. Nd2 O-O 7. e4 Nxe4 8.
Nxe4 dxe4 9. Re1 e5 10. Rxe4 Ne7 11. Rh4 Bxg2 12. Qh5 Be4 13. Rxe4 Ng6 14.
dxe5 Qd5 15. Rd4 Qxe5 16. Qxe5 Nxe5 17. Kg2 a5 18. Rb1 Rfc8 19. h4 a4 20.
Rd5 Rd8 21. Rxd8+ Rxd8 22. b3 axb3 23. Rxb3 Ra8 24. h5 Bf8 25. Rb5 f6 26.
Be3 Nc4 27. Bd4 Nd6 28. Rc5 Ne8 29. Rb5 Rxa2 30. Rb8 Re2 31. Be3 Ng7 32.
Kf3 Ra2 33. c4 Ne6 34. Ke4 Kf7 35. g4 Ra4 36. Kd3 Ra2 37. Rb7+ Be7 38. c5
Nd8 39. Rc7 Ra3+ 40. Ke2 Ne6 41. Rc8 Ra4 42. f3 Bxc5 43. Rxc5 Nxc5 44. Bxc5
f5 45. g5 f4 46. Kf1 Ra6 47. Kg2 Ra5 48. g6+ hxg6 49. hxg6+ Kxg6 50. Bd6
Kg5 51. Be7+ Kh6 52. Bf8+ Kg5 53. Be7+ Kh6 54. Bd6 Ra2+ 55. Kf1 Ra1+ 56.
Kf2 Ra2+ 57. Kf1 Ra1+ 58. Kf2 Ra4 59. Kg2 Kg5 60. Be5 Ra8 61. Kf1 Re8 62.
Bd6 Re6 63. Bc7 Rc6 64. Be5 Rh6 65. Bc7 Rh1+ 66. Kg2 Ra1 67. Bd6 Rb1 68.
Be7+ Kh6 69. Bd6 Rb2+ 70. Kf1 Kg5 71. Be7+ Kh6 72. Bf8+ Kg5 73. Bd6 Rb1+
74. Kg2 Rd1 75. Be5 Rd2+ 76. Kf1 Rd1+ 77. Kg2 Rd7 78. Kf1 Rb7 79. Bd6 Rb1+
80. Kg2 Ra1 81. Bc7 Rc1 82. Be5 Rc4 83. Bd6 Rc1 84. Be5 Rd1 85. Bb8 Ra1
86. Be5 Rc1 1/2-1/2
[/quote][/pgn]
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Komodo Dragon vs IM Andras Toth knight odds match.

Post by Chessqueen »

lkaufman wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:19 pm
AdminX wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:22 pm

I think he would have lost this one anyway, with little time, complex position, and already dragon had 3 pawns for the piece. Even Carlsen would probably have lost from that situation to Dragon. Final game a great win for Dragon, so final score was 4.5 to 1.5 for Dragon by traditional scoring, or 5 to 1 by the agreed Armageddon scoring. Next up is GM Anthony Wirig, to be scheduled.
Here are some of the Black Opening of GM Anthony Wirig, he has not played against 1. f4

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/18273701861

https://www.chess.com/game/live/1827478 ... thonywirig

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/18227515499

https://www.chess.com/game/daily/338277639

https://www.chess.com/game/live/1630419 ... thonywirig

https://www.chess.com/game/live/1630471 ... thonywirig

https://www.chess.com/game/live/1662699 ... thonywirig

https://www.chess.com/game/live/1690293 ... thonywirig

https://www.chess.com/game/live/1690352 ... thonywirig

https://www.chessgames.com/player/anthony_wirig.html

Here is IM Andras Explanation of why he lost and how he should had played ==>
Do NOT worry and be happy, we all live a short life :roll: