When can we Expect CCRL to start testing No Castling ?

[Chessqueen]

I remembered when I asked the same question back 15 years or 16 years ago and 3 months later CCRL started testing Chess960(FRC)

Note: I also noticed that in Chess960(FRC) Most top 3 Engines that start with 1.d4 in CCRL out of 64 of the 112 CCRL games White has a a success rate of 75%, How come ?

[Modern Times]

I remembered when I asked the same question back 10 years or 11 years ago and 3 months later CCRL started testing Chess960(FRC)

CCRL FRC testing stared in 2006, nearly 15 years ago

[Chessqueen]

I remembered when I asked the same question back 15 years or 16 years ago and 3 months later CCRL started testing Chess960(FRC)

CCRL FRC testing stared in 2006, nearly 15 years ago

I do not know exactly the year, I believe you were correct, but I started the question and provided different Fens in which engines could start playing each others. If you research and go back in time you will see that I started the question and testing different engines with Chess960 positions way before the CCRL started testing, simply look at my posting way back from 15 or 16 years ago, I was under other name NOT ChessQueen nor Pichy, but I forgot which name I was under back then.

Note: I stopped playing in Chess.com because after I started training online with an IM people were complaining of me cheating since I advanced too quickly in the first 6 months, anyway here are two of my last games in chess.com. https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/6455969696
https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/3587229663

[Chessqueen]

I remembered when I asked the same question back 15 years or 16 years ago and 3 months later CCRL started testing Chess960(FRC)

Note: I also noticed that in Chess960(FRC) Most top 3 Engines that start with 1.d4 in CCRL out of 64 of the 112 CCRL games White has a a success rate of 75%, How come ?

It is very easy to start a non castling chess tournament among Engines
All that is needed is this FEN which does not allow castling ===> rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1
NOT the normal FEN which allows castling==================> rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

[lkaufman]

With normal chess we use opening sets to get enough variety for testing; with FRC we automatically have 960 positions so no problem, but with no castling chess someone would need to build suitable opening sets to provide enough variety for valid testing. Anyway so far the variant doesn't have the popularity or support of FRC; we have major FRC tournaments (St. Louis, World Championships), but so far just this match with 2 players. I like the idea of no castling chess, but it needs some popularity to justify engine testing.

[Graham Banks]

Proper chess is good enough for me.

[Andrew]

I remembered when I asked the same question back 15 years or 16 years ago and 3 months later CCRL started testing Chess960(FRC)

Note: I also noticed that in Chess960(FRC) Most top 3 Engines that start with 1.d4 in CCRL out of 64 of the 112 CCRL games White has a a success rate of 75%, How come ?

It is very easy to start a non castling chess tournament among Engines
All that is needed is this FEN which does not allow castling ===> rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1
NOT the normal FEN which allows castling==================> rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

I've just tried this no castling FEN in the Fritz 17 GUI.
Also through the set up position screen with castling options turned off.

In both cases ran Stockfish 14 with infinite analysis, castling moves appeared in the anaysis.

Wondering if this is a problem with the GUI or the engine?

Andrew

[Andrew]

I remembered when I asked the same question back 15 years or 16 years ago and 3 months later CCRL started testing Chess960(FRC)

Note: I also noticed that in Chess960(FRC) Most top 3 Engines that start with 1.d4 in CCRL out of 64 of the 112 CCRL games White has a a success rate of 75%, How come ?

It is very easy to start a non castling chess tournament among Engines
All that is needed is this FEN which does not allow castling ===> rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1
NOT the normal FEN which allows castling==================> rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

I've just tried this no castling FEN in the Fritz 17 GUI.
Also through the set up position screen with castling options turned off.

In both cases ran Stockfish 14 with infinite analysis, castling moves appeared in the anaysis.

Wondering if this is a problem with the GUI or the engine?

Andrew

I tried a few other engines, same result, looks like it's a bug in the GUI not sending
the correct castling status to the engine.

However it worked fine using the opening move list from another topic

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Rg1 Rg8 4. Rb1 Rb8 5. Ra1 Ra8 6. Rh1 Rh8 7.Nb1 Nb8 8.Ng1 Ng8

Andrew

[AdminX]

I remembered when I asked the same question back 15 years or 16 years ago and 3 months later CCRL started testing Chess960(FRC)

Note: I also noticed that in Chess960(FRC) Most top 3 Engines that start with 1.d4 in CCRL out of 64 of the 112 CCRL games White has a a success rate of 75%, How come ?

It is very easy to start a non castling chess tournament among Engines
All that is needed is this FEN which does not allow castling ===> rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1
NOT the normal FEN which allows castling==================> rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

I've just tried this no castling FEN in the Fritz 17 GUI.
Also through the set up position screen with castling options turned off.

In both cases ran Stockfish 14 with infinite analysis, castling moves appeared in the anaysis.

Wondering if this is a problem with the GUI or the engine?

Andrew

I noticed this as well when I modified the Anand-Kramnik pgns and tried to get an game analysis using Chessbase 16 and saw castling appear there as well. I will see how it goes with Banksia GUI.

PS: My gut tells me it may be an engine issue.

Code: Select all

[Event "NC World Masters 2021"]
[Site "Dortmund"]
[Date "2021.07.18"]
[Round "4.1"]
[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
[Black "Anand, Viswanathan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D32"]
[WhiteElo "2753"]
[BlackElo "2753"]
[Annotator "ChessBase"]
[PlyCount "79"]
[EventDate "2021.07.12"]
[EventType "match"]
[EventCountry "GER"]
[SourceTitle "playchess.com"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceQuality "1"]
[TimeControl "40/5400+30:1800+30"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. c4 {5} e6 {7} 2. d4 {18} d5 {27} 3. Nc3 {13} c5 {11} 4. cxd5 {42} exd5 {9}
5. Nf3 {10} Be6 {14} 6. Bf4 {177} Nc6 {112} 7. e3 {68} a6 {297} 8. dxc5 {763}
Bxc5 {16} 9. Ng5 {309} Nf6 {144} 10. Nxe6 {196} fxe6 {9} 11. Bd3 {7} Bd6 {434}
12. Bg3 {221} Bxg3 {164} 13. hxg3 {313} Ke7 {17} 14. Qe2 {225} h5 {232} 15. Rd1
{202} Ne5 {417} 16. Bc2 {571} Qb6 {277} 17. Bb3 {35} Rad8 {44} 18. Rd4 $11 {
390 remains equal.} Nc6 {415} 19. Rdh4 {187} Ne5 {299} 20. g4 {360} Nexg4 {123}
21. Rxh5 $1 {225 Remove Defender} Rxh5 {394} 22. Rxh5 {124} Nxe3 {232} 23. Rg5
{121} d4 {268} 24. Rxg7+ {131} Kf8 {25} 25. Rg6 {32} dxc3 {131} 26. Qf3 $1 {453
} Qd4 {130} 27. Rxf6+ {201} Kg7 {9} 28. Rf7+ {52} Kg8 {10} 29. fxe3 {195} Qd2+
{10 Double Attack} 30. Kf1 {2} cxb2 {10} 31. Qg4+ {92 Double Attack} Kxf7 {5}
32. Qxe6+ {48} Kg7 {5} 33. Qe7+ {178} Kh8 {52} 34. Qf6+ {18} Kh7 {5} 35. Qf7+ {
27} Kh8 {6} 36. Qh5+ $2 {17} Kg7 {6} 37. Qg5+ {10} Kh7 {5} 38. Qh5+ {16} Kg7 {6
} 39. Qf7+ $11 {4} Kh8 {6} 40. Qh5+ {6} 1/2-1/2

[amanjpro]

Zahak parses all fields of fen, an respects them. If you cannot reproduce the issue with Zahak then it is an engine issue, if you could then it is a GUI issue