Raphexon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:11 am
Next you'll argue Houdini source code is available and therefore not a GPL violation. "Just ask for source on some Russian forum"
It's how the Houdini source was obtained that bothers me.
Evidence gathered by guessing passwords isn't illegal in Germany.
Let's say you did something bad and the evidence is in your car then there are 2 possibilities:
a) a person broke in -> this is illegal and the evidence won't be used in court (unless the police gets a permission from a judge or you save a life by breaking into the car)
b) you left your roof and doors open and it was clearly visible -> the evidence will be used in court
In my opinion, it doesn't say much for the standard of German ethics then, but others may be okay with it.
Seems to me that breaking into somebody's computer and stealing private files is wrong.
As far as I am aware almost all countries in the EU. Making laws based on Religion can be dangerous. The reason why guessing passwords is ok is that even though somebody technically did something unethical one is still partly responsible for ones privacy and safety. A recycled password is basically an open door which was again demonstrated. No insurance will pay in case of a theft if you left your door open. Nothing was broken and nobody was harmed and something incriminating was found by accident so logically there is no reason to not permit it as evidence.
If there was no source code on that server nobody would've been harmed by the person guessing the password.
ChickenLogic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:43 pm
As far as I am aware almost all countries in the EU. Making laws based on Religion can be dangerous. The reason why guessing passwords is ok is that even though somebody technically did something unethical one is still partly responsible for ones privacy and safety. A recycled password is basically an open door which was again demonstrated. No insurance will pay in case of a theft if you left your door open. Nothing was broken and nobody was harmed and something incriminating was found by accident so logically there is no reason to not permit it as evidence.
If there was no source code on that server nobody would've been harmed by the person guessing the password.
???
"“Wer unbefugt sich oder einem anderen Zugang zu Daten, die nicht für ihn bestimmt und die gegen unberechtigten Zugang besonders gesichert sind, unter Überwindung der Zugangssicherung verschafft, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft."
"Die deutsche Polizei darf Smartphones und Computer mit richterlichem Beschluss beschlagnahmen, wenn sie als Beweismittel für Ermittlungen infrage kommen. Die Ermittler dürfen auch die gespeicherten SMS und E-Mails auswerten. Computer und Smartphones gelten zwar für viele als „ausgelagertes Gedächtnis“, rechtlich sind sie aber nicht besser geschützt als eine Kiste Briefe."
ChickenLogic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:43 pm
As far as I am aware almost all countries in the EU. Making laws based on Religion can be dangerous. The reason why guessing passwords is ok is that even though somebody technically did something unethical one is still partly responsible for ones privacy and safety. A recycled password is basically an open door which was again demonstrated. No insurance will pay in case of a theft if you left your door open. Nothing was broken and nobody was harmed and something incriminating was found by accident so logically there is no reason to not permit it as evidence.
If there was no source code on that server nobody would've been harmed by the person guessing the password.
???
"“Wer unbefugt sich oder einem anderen Zugang zu Daten, die nicht für ihn bestimmt und die gegen unberechtigten Zugang besonders gesichert sind, unter Überwindung der Zugangssicherung verschafft, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft."
"Die deutsche Polizei darf Smartphones und Computer mit richterlichem Beschluss beschlagnahmen, wenn sie als Beweismittel für Ermittlungen infrage kommen. Die Ermittler dürfen auch die gespeicherten SMS und E-Mails auswerten. Computer und Smartphones gelten zwar für viele als „ausgelagertes Gedächtnis“, rechtlich sind sie aber nicht besser geschützt als eine Kiste Briefe."
There is a difference if police cracks your password covered by a judge or if some anon hacks your server.
--
Srdja
There was no hacking at all. Huge difference that you simply ignore.
"die nicht für ihn bestimmt und die gegen unberechtigten Zugang besonders gesichert sind" - a recycled password isn't exactly "besonders gesichert"(specially secured) which can be confirmed by looking at other cases where password guessing played a role. Part one "nicht für ihn bestimmt" is applicable but it's an 'and' that requires both to be true. According to many cases a weak password doesn't fit 'besonders gesichert' so it doesn't apply.
ChickenLogic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:43 pm
As far as I am aware almost all countries in the EU. Making laws based on Religion can be dangerous. The reason why guessing passwords is ok is that even though somebody technically did something unethical one is still partly responsible for ones privacy and safety. A recycled password is basically an open door which was again demonstrated. No insurance will pay in case of a theft if you left your door open. Nothing was broken and nobody was harmed and something incriminating was found by accident so logically there is no reason to not permit it as evidence.
If there was no source code on that server nobody would've been harmed by the person guessing the password.
???
"“Wer unbefugt sich oder einem anderen Zugang zu Daten, die nicht für ihn bestimmt und die gegen unberechtigten Zugang besonders gesichert sind, unter Überwindung der Zugangssicherung verschafft, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft."
"Die deutsche Polizei darf Smartphones und Computer mit richterlichem Beschluss beschlagnahmen, wenn sie als Beweismittel für Ermittlungen infrage kommen. Die Ermittler dürfen auch die gespeicherten SMS und E-Mails auswerten. Computer und Smartphones gelten zwar für viele als „ausgelagertes Gedächtnis“, rechtlich sind sie aber nicht besser geschützt als eine Kiste Briefe."
There is a difference if police cracks your password covered by a judge or if some anon hacks your server.
--
Srdja
There was no hacking at all. Huge difference that you simply ignore.
"die nicht für ihn bestimmt und die gegen unberechtigten Zugang besonders gesichert sind" - a recycled password isn't exactly "besonders gesichert"(specially secured) which can be confirmed by looking at other cases where password guessing played a role. Part one "nicht für ihn bestimmt" is applicable but it's an 'and' that requires both to be true. According to many cases a weak password doesn't fit 'besonders gesichert' so it doesn't apply.
I stronlgy disagree. It is already sufficient that there was a password protection, regardless of what that password was. Feel free to give some reference of an actual case. What insurance companies and banks consider as "besonders gesichert", how strong your protection has to be, is another topic. Hacking through security protection in Germany is a crime, no matter how strong that security protection was.
ChickenLogic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:43 pm
As far as I am aware almost all countries in the EU. Making laws based on Religion can be dangerous. The reason why guessing passwords is ok is that even though somebody technically did something unethical one is still partly responsible for ones privacy and safety. A recycled password is basically an open door which was again demonstrated. No insurance will pay in case of a theft if you left your door open. Nothing was broken and nobody was harmed and something incriminating was found by accident so logically there is no reason to not permit it as evidence.
If there was no source code on that server nobody would've been harmed by the person guessing the password.
???
"“Wer unbefugt sich oder einem anderen Zugang zu Daten, die nicht für ihn bestimmt und die gegen unberechtigten Zugang besonders gesichert sind, unter Überwindung der Zugangssicherung verschafft, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft."
"Die deutsche Polizei darf Smartphones und Computer mit richterlichem Beschluss beschlagnahmen, wenn sie als Beweismittel für Ermittlungen infrage kommen. Die Ermittler dürfen auch die gespeicherten SMS und E-Mails auswerten. Computer und Smartphones gelten zwar für viele als „ausgelagertes Gedächtnis“, rechtlich sind sie aber nicht besser geschützt als eine Kiste Briefe."
There is a difference if police cracks your password covered by a judge or if some anon hacks your server.
--
Srdja
There was no hacking at all. Huge difference that you simply ignore.
"die nicht für ihn bestimmt und die gegen unberechtigten Zugang besonders gesichert sind" - a recycled password isn't exactly "besonders gesichert"(specially secured) which can be confirmed by looking at other cases where password guessing played a role. Part one "nicht für ihn bestimmt" is applicable but it's an 'and' that requires both to be true. According to many cases a weak password doesn't fit 'besonders gesichert' so it doesn't apply.
I stronlgy disagree. It is already sufficient that there was a password protection, regardless of what that password was. Feel free to give some reference of an actual case. What insurance companies and banks consider as "besonders gesichert", how strong your protection has to be, is another topic. Hacking through security protection in Germany is a crime, no matter how strong that security protection was.
--
Srdja
So now you are IP law expert. Is there a field where you are not an expert???
Or just because you have an opinion makes you an expert?
I'd say you are as usual clueless, and I'm pretty sure many would agree.
One could understand that Dunning-Kruger of yours, but what is hard to understand is total lack of logic.
What you are claiming is basically equivalent to the claim that once you locked your door, even if you left the key in the lock you made it secure and insurance should pay you if someone enters your apartment and steels stuff.
Last edited by Milos on Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Milos wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:46 pm
So now you are IP law expert. Is there a field where you are not an expert???
Or just because you have an opinion makes you an expert?
Hacking into computer systems has pretty much nothing to do with IP-law.
Milos wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:46 pm
So now you are IP law expert. Is there a field where you are not an expert???
Or just because you have an opinion makes you an expert?
Hacking into computer systems has pretty much nothing to do with IP-law.
--
Srdja
And your "arguments" have pretty much nothing to do with logic...
Maybe comprehension of English is your problem. Try looking term hacking in dictionary. Just because you call grass red doesn't mean it is.
Milos wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:46 pm
...
One could understand that Dunning-Kruger of yours, but what is hard to understand is total lack of logic.
..
Milose, help me out, what was the IQ-gap for the Dunning-Kruger?
