Can Komodo give a Queen to a 1500 chess Engine on CCRL?

[yurikvelo]

hard to start with a Queen missing from the original position without having Stockfish resign immediately

there is no UCI option to resign
it is solely GUI decision to adjudicate game

[Chessqueen]

hard to start with a Queen missing from the original position without having Stockfish resign immediately

there is no UCI option to resign
it is solely GUI decision to adjudicate game

I changed the resign to -1275 and Stockfish still resigned after a few moves, NOT like Komodo that it continue up to the very end after you assign contempt to either 150 or 180

[lkaufman]

Final result for Dragon 2 giving queen odds to Irina 0.15 at 2' + 1" blitz was +106 -70 =24 for +63 elo. So based on this, at blitz CCRL tc Dragon is about even with 1500 CCRL blitz at queen odds. Overnight running 15' + 10" rapid, I expect Dragon to lose badly.

I came to Philippines Thursday and leaving today in 30 minutes, 4 hours ago I visited one of their local Chess Club and found Nelson a 1545 rated player since I am with my i7 laptop computer he agreed to play one game with Queen Odds against Komodo 13.3 I only had to pay him $10.00 since he lost and if he had won $25.00 which is a lot of money in Philippines and $15.00 for a draw. Well he tried hard to get at least a draw but was could NOT draw against the Beast. I also played one game against a local Fulo, Nunilon III rated 2025 and drew at TC 5'+3"

[pgn][Event "Queen Odds"]
[Site "Philippines Chess Club"]
[Date "2021.09.05"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit-bmi2"]
[Black "Nelson"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1545"]
[Time "02:09:31"]
[WhiteElo "3470"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 3 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "100"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. Nf3 Nc6 2. d3 Nf6 3. e4 d5 4. e5 Ng4 5. d4 Bf5 6. c3 Qd7 7. h3 Bxb1 8.
Rxb1 Qf5 9. Ra1 Nh6 10. Bb5 g6 11. O-O O-O-O 12. Nh4 Qe6 13. Nf3 Bg7 14.
Re1 Qd7 15. b4 Rde8 16. a4 a6 17. Bd3 Nf5 18. b5 axb5 19. axb5 Nb8 20. g4
Nh6 21. Bf4 Nxg4 22. e6 fxe6 23. hxg4 e5 24. Nxe5 Bxe5 25. Rxe5 Qxg4+ 26.
Bg3 Qf3 27. Re3 Qg4 28. Be2 Qf5 29. Re5 Qd7 30. b6 Na6 31. bxc7 Nxc7 32. c4
Qh3 33. cxd5 b6 34. Rc1 Kb7 35. Bf3 Na6 36. Rce1 Kc8 37. Re6 Nb8 38. Rxb6
Ref8 39. Bg2 Qg4 40. Rxb8+ Kd7 41. Rb7+ Kd8 42. Rexe7 g5 43. d6 Qc8 44.
Rec7 Rf6 45. Bc6 Qa8 46. Rb1 Rf7 47. Bxa8 Rxc7 48. dxc7+ Kd7 49. Rb8 Rc8
50. Rxc8 Kxc8 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]

This is a very nice game, because the human player played as well as I would expect from his rating, and still got crushed. My overnight result of Dragon giving queen odds to Irina in 15' + 10" Rapid has Dragon losing by about 75 elo, as I expected.

[lkaufman]

But against another 1600 rated player Komodo lost very quickly, and I lost $25.00. This is using my Laptop Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz with 15.9 GB Memory

[pgn][Event "Queen Odds"]
[Site "Philippines Chess Club"]
[Date "2021.09.05"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit-bmi2"]
[Black "Jose"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1600"]
[Time "08:09:17"]
[WhiteElo "3470"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "43"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 d5 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. e3 Bg4 5. Nbd2 Bxf3 6. gxf3 Nh5 7. Bg3
Nxg3 8. hxg3 e5 9. O-O-O exd4 10. exd4 Nxd4 11. Re1+ Be7 12. c3 Ne6 13. Re5
O-O 14. f4 Bf6 15. Reh5 h6 16. Rxh6 gxh6 17. Kd1 Bg7 18. f3 c5 19. Kc2 d4
20. Bc4 dxc3 21. bxc3 {White resigns} Qd6 22. Ne4 {White resigns} *[/pgn]

This is strange because the blunder 16. Rxh6?? makes no sense, I can't replicate it at any time or depth with K14.1 (I don't have 13.3 on my laptop). Were you perhaps using MCTS? I think MCTS just falls apart completely when down a huge amount like this. I would only use MCTS for handicap play if the handicap is not more than a rook, if the time control is Rapid rather than blitz, and if the number of threads is at least four.

[Chessqueen]

[quote=lkaufman post_id=904385 time=1630853016 user_id=4773]
[quote=Chessqueen post_id=904370 time=1630848122 user_id=10732]
But against another 1600 rated player Komodo lost very quickly, and I lost $25.00. This is using my Laptop Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz with 15.9 GB Memory

Yes I was using the MCTS of Komodo 13.3. I would like to continue testing versus many humans with your latest beta version of Komodo DragonX. Here waiting at Malina Airport Young 13 years old Daniel was looking at me going over some games with my Laptop and I asked him if he has a rating he is 1465.

[pgn][Event "Queen Odds"]
[Site "Manila Airport"]
[Date "2021.09.05"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Daniel"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1465"]
[Time "09:45:17"]
[WhiteElo "3480"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "43"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. e3 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. d4 e4 4. f3 Bb4 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 d5 7. a4 O-O 8.
Ne2 exf3 9. gxf3 Be6 10. Nf4 Qd7 11. Nxe6 fxe6 12. Bd3 Qf7 13. O-O Qh5 14.
Kh1 Ne4 15. fxe4 Rxf1+ 16. Bxf1 Qf3+ 17. Kg1 Nd7 18. Ba3 Qxe3+ 19. Kh1 Qxc3
20. Rb1 Qxa3 21. Bg2 {White resigns}[/pgn]

[lkaufman]

But against another 1600 rated player Komodo lost very quickly, and I lost $25.00. This is using my Laptop Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz with 15.9 GB Memory

Yes I was using the MCTS of Komodo 13.3. I would like to continue testing versus many humans with your latest beta version of Komodo DragonX. Here waiting at Malina Airport Young 13 years old Daniel was looking at me going over some games with my Laptop and I asked him if he has a rating he is 1465.

[pgn][Event "Queen Odds"]
[Site "Manila Airport"]
[Date "2021.09.05"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Daniel"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1465"]
[Time "09:45:17"]
[WhiteElo "3480"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "43"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. e3 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. d4 e4 4. f3 Bb4 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 d5 7. a4 O-O 8.
Ne2 exf3 9. gxf3 Be6 10. Nf4 Qd7 11. Nxe6 fxe6 12. Bd3 Qf7 13. O-O Qh5 14.
Kh1 Ne4 15. fxe4 Rxf1+ 16. Bxf1 Qf3+ 17. Kg1 Nd7 18. Ba3 Qxe3+ 19. Kh1 Qxc3
20. Rb1 Qxa3 21. Bg2 {White resigns}[/pgn]

With large handicaps the exact version of Dragon doesn't matter, nor does the hardware if you don't use MCTS which you shouldn't at queen odds. The only thing that matters is to set Contempt properly; for queen odds I would go with the maximum value of 250.

[Guenther]

hard to start with a Queen missing from the original position without having Stockfish resign immediately :roll:

there is no UCI option to resign
it is solely GUI decision to adjudicate game

He was told already dozens of time...

[Chessqueen]

hard to start with a Queen missing from the original position without having Stockfish resign immediately

there is no UCI option to resign
it is solely GUI decision to adjudicate game

He was told already dozens of time...

Now with you, it is the 13th times. Why you have to be number 13? Simply leave it at a dozen. I like everything at a dozen, for example a dozen eggs etc...... You are no different than most chess Hustlers, Trash Talkers Talk Talk and trying to belittle others

[Leto]

But against another 1600 rated player Komodo lost very quickly, and I lost $25.00. This is using my Laptop Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz with 15.9 GB Memory

Yes I was using the MCTS of Komodo 13.3. I would like to continue testing versus many humans with your latest beta version of Komodo DragonX. Here waiting at Malina Airport Young 13 years old Daniel was looking at me going over some games with my Laptop and I asked him if he has a rating he is 1465.

[pgn][Event "Queen Odds"]
[Site "Manila Airport"]
[Date "2021.09.05"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Daniel"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1465"]
[Time "09:45:17"]
[WhiteElo "3480"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "43"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. e3 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. d4 e4 4. f3 Bb4 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 d5 7. a4 O-O 8.
Ne2 exf3 9. gxf3 Be6 10. Nf4 Qd7 11. Nxe6 fxe6 12. Bd3 Qf7 13. O-O Qh5 14.
Kh1 Ne4 15. fxe4 Rxf1+ 16. Bxf1 Qf3+ 17. Kg1 Nd7 18. Ba3 Qxe3+ 19. Kh1 Qxc3
20. Rb1 Qxa3 21. Bg2 {White resigns}[/pgn]

With large handicaps the exact version of Dragon doesn't matter, nor does the hardware if you don't use MCTS which you shouldn't at queen odds. The only thing that matters is to set Contempt properly; for queen odds I would go with the maximum value of 250.

I'd say 11.Nxe6 is bad, when down by so many pieces doesn't make sense to trade pieces in my opinion, I think you would want to keep as many pieces as possible and try hard to complicate the position and hope the opponent keeps blundering.

[lkaufman]

But against another 1600 rated player Komodo lost very quickly, and I lost $25.00. This is using my Laptop Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz with 15.9 GB Memory

Yes I was using the MCTS of Komodo 13.3. I would like to continue testing versus many humans with your latest beta version of Komodo DragonX. Here waiting at Malina Airport Young 13 years old Daniel was looking at me going over some games with my Laptop and I asked him if he has a rating he is 1465.

[pgn][Event "Queen Odds"]
[Site "Manila Airport"]
[Date "2021.09.05"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Daniel"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1465"]
[Time "09:45:17"]
[WhiteElo "3480"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "43"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. e3 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. d4 e4 4. f3 Bb4 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 d5 7. a4 O-O 8.
Ne2 exf3 9. gxf3 Be6 10. Nf4 Qd7 11. Nxe6 fxe6 12. Bd3 Qf7 13. O-O Qh5 14.
Kh1 Ne4 15. fxe4 Rxf1+ 16. Bxf1 Qf3+ 17. Kg1 Nd7 18. Ba3 Qxe3+ 19. Kh1 Qxc3
20. Rb1 Qxa3 21. Bg2 {White resigns}[/pgn]

With large handicaps the exact version of Dragon doesn't matter, nor does the hardware if you don't use MCTS which you shouldn't at queen odds. The only thing that matters is to set Contempt properly; for queen odds I would go with the maximum value of 250.

I'd say 11.Nxe6 is bad, when down by so many pieces doesn't make sense to trade pieces in my opinion, I think you would want to keep as many pieces as possible and try hard to complicate the position and hope the opponent keeps blundering.

You have just identified a basic difference between Stockfish and Komodo. Stockfish has code that makes no sense to a chess master because it must have shown a tiny elo gain, that causes it to make this obvious mistake. We don't allow chessically incorrect code in Komodo even if it adds an elo point. That's one reason Komodo is so much stronger than Stockfish in handicap play, even if stockfish still comes out ahead head to head in standard chess.