Will Komodo Dragon3 have a level based on ratings ?

[Chessqueen]

What I want to know is if Komodo Dragon3 will have different ratings instead of setting it to certain skill level, for instance If I want to play against it all that I will have to do is select a range from 1950 to 2000 and start playing? That will make Komodo Dragon3 the first commercial chess engine that human can select a challenger based on FIDE ratings.

[Chessqueen]

What I want to know is if Komodo Dragon3 will have different ratings instead of setting it to certain skill level, for instance If I want to play against it all that I will have to do is select a range from 1950 to 2000 and start playing? That will make Komodo Dragon3 the first commercial chess engine that human can select a challenger based on FIDE ratings.

Mr. Kaufman I do Not know if I set the correct Skill Level equal to around 1940 FIDE 114 x 17 = 1938 , this is why we need a new level based on ratings for us humans, but I decided to play a game at TC 15'+10" against Dragon2. Tomorrow I agreed to have two games match against Mazara Ruiz, Adan Manuel a 2286 FIDE rated from the Dominican Republic Via Skype. I just want to make sure that I select the correct Skill Level, Skill Level = 20 ? 114 x 20 = 2280. He will get $50.00 for a win and $25.00 for a Draw https://ratings.fide.com/profile/6400248

[pgn][Event "Dragon2 Skill =17"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.09.17"]
[Round "1"]
[White "ChessQueen"]
[Black "Dragon-2-64bit-avx2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1938"]
[ECO "D13"]
[Opening "Slav"]
[Time "17:15:21"]
[Variation "Exchange, 6.Bf4 a6 7.e3 Bg4"]
[WhiteElo "1975"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "247"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bf4 Nc6 7. e3 Bg4 8.
h3 Bxf3 9. Qxf3 e6 10. Be2 Bd6 11. Bg5 h6 12. Bxf6 gxf6 13. O-O f5 14. Bd3
Qg5 15. Nxd5 exd5 16. Qxd5 O-O-O 17. Qxf5+ Kb8 18. Qxf7 Rhg8 19. Be4 Rgf8
20. Qb3 Nb4 21. a3 Qh4 22. Bxb7 Kxb7 23. axb4 Bc7 24. b5 a5 25. Qc2 Kb8 26.
Rac1 Bb6 27. Qd3 Qe7 28. Rc6 Rf6 29. Rd1 h5 30. d5 Rfd6 31. Qf5 h4 32. Qc2
Qe5 33. Qc3 Qe4 34. Qd3 Qxd3 35. Rxd3 Kb7 36. e4 R6d7 37. Kf1 Re7 38. f3
Rc7 39. Rdc3 Rg7 40. Rc2 Rgg8 41. Rh6 Rh8 42. Rg6 Rhg8 43. Re6 Rc8 44. Re7+
Kb8 45. Rc6 Bd8 46. Rh7 a4 47. Rxc8+ Kxc8 48. Ra7 Kb8 49. Rxa4 Kb7 50. Rc4
Bf6 51. Rc2 Be5 52. Rc6 Bxb2 53. Rh6 Bd4 54. Rxh4 Kb6 55. Rg4 Ra8 56. Ke2
Kc5 57. Rg6 Ra2+ 58. Kd3 Ra3+ 59. Kc2 Ra2+ 60. Kb3 Rb2+ 61. Ka3 Kxb5 62.
Rg8 Kc4 63. Rc8+ Kd3 64. d6 Rb7 65. Rc7 Rb8 66. d7 Rd8 67. Kb4 Be5 68. Rb7
Kd4 69. Kb5 Bg3 70. Kc6 Ke5 71. Kc7 Ra8 72. d8=N Ra2 73. Rb5+ Kf4 74. Ne6+
Ke3+ 75. Kc6 Rc2+ 76. Rc5 Rxg2 77. Rc3+ Kd2 78. Ra3 Kc1 79. f4 Bh4 80. e5
Kb2 81. Rf3 Ka1 82. f5 Re2 83. f6 Rxe5 84. f7 Be7 85. Kd7 Bb4 86. Rb3 Rf5
87. Rxb4 Rxf7+ 88. Kd6 Rf1 89. Nf4 Ka2 90. Ke5 Rh1 91. Rb7 Ka3 92. Rb5 Ka4
93. Rd5 Kb4 94. Kd4 Kb3 95. Ke4 Kc4 96. Rd7 Kc5 97. Kf5 Kc6 98. Rh7 Kd6 99.
h4 Rc1 100. h5 Rc8 101. h6 Rf8+ 102. Kg5 Re8 103. Kg6 Ke5 104. Nh5 Rd8 105.
Rf7 Rg8+ 106. Ng7 Rc8 107. h7 Kd6 108. Ra7 Rd8 109. Ra6+ Kd5 110. Re6 Rh8
111. Re8 Rxh7 112. Kxh7 Kc6 113. Kg6 Kd5 114. Nf5 Kc5 115. Rc8+ Kb5 116.
Kg5 Ka4 117. Rb8 Ka3 118. Nd4 Ka4 119. Nc6 Ka3 120. Kf5 Ka4 121. Ke4 Ka3
122. Kd3 Ka2 123. Kc2 Ka3 124. Ra8# *[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

This time I set up the Skill Level to 18 in Dragon2, there must be something wrong with the Skill Level 114 x 18 = 2052 ? Another question is when I set the skill level to 18 is that with 1 core or with 4 cores on my intel i7 3.40GHz ? So far I have been playing those two game with only 1 core

[pgn][Event "Skill Level = 18"]
[Date "2021.09.17"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Dragon-2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1975"]
[ECO "D47"]
[Opening "Semi-Slav"]
[Time "18:47:09"]
[Variation "Meran, 8.Bd3 Bd6"]
[WhiteElo "2052"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "72"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 8.
Bd3 Bd6 9. Bd2 O-O 10. Ne4 Nxe4 11. Bxe4 Bb7 12. a4 Nf6 13. Bd3 bxa4 14.
Bc3 c5 15. Qxa4 cxd4 16. Qxd4 e5 17. Qa4 Bxf3 18. gxf3 h6 19. O-O Nd5 20.
Qe4 Qg5+ 21. Kh1 Nf6 22. Qc6 Qh5 23. Rg1 Rfd8 24. Ba6 e4 25. f4 Qf3+ 26.
Rg2 Be7 27. Rf1 Rab8 28. Bb7 Rd1 29. Rxd1 Qxd1+ 30. Rg1 Qf3+ 31. Rg2 Ng4
32. h3 Nxf2+ 33. Kg1 Qd1+ 34. Kh2 Qh1+ 35. Kg3 Bh4+ 36. Kxh4 Qxh3# 0-1[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

This time I set up the Skill Level to 18 in Dragon2, there must be something wrong with the Skill Level 114 x 18 = 2052 ? Another question is when I set the skill level to 18 is that with 1 core or with 4 cores on my intel i7 3.40GHz ? So far I have been playing those two game with only 1 core

I just Called Adan Manuel Mazara Ruiz rated 2286 and agree to play Knight Odds at 45'+ 10" instead of using Skill Level 18 tomorrow. https://ratings.fide.com/profile/6400248

[pgn][Event "Skill Level = 18"]
[Date "2021.09.17"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Dragon-2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1975"]
[ECO "D47"]
[Opening "Semi-Slav"]
[Time "18:47:09"]
[Variation "Meran, 8.Bd3 Bd6"]
[WhiteElo "2052"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "72"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 8.
Bd3 Bd6 9. Bd2 O-O 10. Ne4 Nxe4 11. Bxe4 Bb7 12. a4 Nf6 13. Bd3 bxa4 14.
Bc3 c5 15. Qxa4 cxd4 16. Qxd4 e5 17. Qa4 Bxf3 18. gxf3 h6 19. O-O Nd5 20.
Qe4 Qg5+ 21. Kh1 Nf6 22. Qc6 Qh5 23. Rg1 Rfd8 24. Ba6 e4 25. f4 Qf3+ 26.
Rg2 Be7 27. Rf1 Rab8 28. Bb7 Rd1 29. Rxd1 Qxd1+ 30. Rg1 Qf3+ 31. Rg2 Ng4
32. h3 Nxf2+ 33. Kg1 Qd1+ 34. Kh2 Qh1+ 35. Kg3 Bh4+ 36. Kxh4 Qxh3# 0-1[/pgn]

[cc2150dx]

Skill levels 1-24 are set to play with 1 core/thread regardless of how many cores/threads you set.

[Chessqueen]

Skill levels 1-24 are set to play with 1 core/thread regardless of how many cores/threads you set.

Thanks, I would like to know if Mr. Kaufman will include levels based on ratings ready in 2 months?

[lkaufman]

Skill levels 1-24 are set to play with 1 core/thread regardless of how many cores/threads you set.

Thanks, I would like to know if Mr. Kaufman will include levels based on ratings ready in 2 months?

The above info is not correct. The Skill levels 1-24 are calibrated for 1 core/1 thread, but if you set threads to 2 or more Komodo or Dragon will play stronger than intended, perhaps sixty elo or so stronger on four threads than on one, depending on the exact version and level. The speed of the processor does not matter.
Regarding our next release, it won't be called Dragon 3 as it is too soon after Dragon 2 under our contract with ChessBase to call it that, but I can say it will be a MAJOR upgrade, and it will be much sooner than 2 months. The plan is to increase the number of Skill levels to 35, with each level estimated to be a fair match at 15' + 10" for a human with that FIDE rating with two zeroes added. We could use the UCI elo option, but I don't see any advantage over just having the Skill level (with two zeroes added) match the FIDE rating. The hard part is of course the lack of much human vs. engine data. I'm tentatively using the formula FIDE Rapid rating = 0.85 x CCRL Rapid rating + 525. So at the top of the single thread list, 3500 CCRL would also be 3500 FIDE Rapid, but this is of course untestable. 2500 CCRL Rapid would be 2650 FIDE, 2000 CCRL would be 2225 FIDE Rapid. If anyone has any comment as to whether this formula needs adjustment, or any relevant engine vs human data at Rapid time controls on modern computers, please say so here. I can still modify the formula and the resultant Skill levels. The levels would assume the use of just one thread, with intermediate values like 1950 being set by using level 19 with perhaps three threads.

[lkaufman]

This time I set up the Skill Level to 18 in Dragon2, there must be something wrong with the Skill Level 114 x 18 = 2052 ? Another question is when I set the skill level to 18 is that with 1 core or with 4 cores on my intel i7 3.40GHz ? So far I have been playing those two game with only 1 core

I just Called Adan Manuel Mazara Ruiz rated 2286 and agree to play Knight Odds at 45'+ 10" instead of using Skill Level 18 tomorrow. https://ratings.fide.com/profile/6400248

[pgn][Event "Skill Level = 18"]
[Date "2021.09.17"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Dragon-2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1975"]
[ECO "D47"]
[Opening "Semi-Slav"]
[Time "18:47:09"]
[Variation "Meran, 8.Bd3 Bd6"]
[WhiteElo "2052"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "72"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 8.
Bd3 Bd6 9. Bd2 O-O 10. Ne4 Nxe4 11. Bxe4 Bb7 12. a4 Nf6 13. Bd3 bxa4 14.
Bc3 c5 15. Qxa4 cxd4 16. Qxd4 e5 17. Qa4 Bxf3 18. gxf3 h6 19. O-O Nd5 20.
Qe4 Qg5+ 21. Kh1 Nf6 22. Qc6 Qh5 23. Rg1 Rfd8 24. Ba6 e4 25. f4 Qf3+ 26.
Rg2 Be7 27. Rf1 Rab8 28. Bb7 Rd1 29. Rxd1 Qxd1+ 30. Rg1 Qf3+ 31. Rg2 Ng4
32. h3 Nxf2+ 33. Kg1 Qd1+ 34. Kh2 Qh1+ 35. Kg3 Bh4+ 36. Kxh4 Qxh3# 0-1[/pgn]

I think that you played rather well in these two games for a 1950 player at 15' + 10", but you are probably right that the formula is a bit too generous in rating Dragon around levels 16 thru 19. You already know that your friend Jorge Hasbun was even with levels 21 and 22 combined at that level, so the formula seems about right at those levels, and probably Ruiz at 2286 would be somewhere between levels 20 and 21 at that time control. For knight odds instead perhaps try the b1 knight for variety this time, with depth 22 and four threads.

[Chessqueen]

This time I set up the Skill Level to 18 in Dragon2, there must be something wrong with the Skill Level 114 x 18 = 2052 ? Another question is when I set the skill level to 18 is that with 1 core or with 4 cores on my intel i7 3.40GHz ? So far I have been playing those two game with only 1 core

I just Called Adan Manuel Mazara Ruiz rated 2286 and agree to play Knight Odds at 45'+ 10" instead of using Skill Level 18 tomorrow. https://ratings.fide.com/profile/6400248

[pgn][Event "Skill Level = 18"]
[Date "2021.09.17"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Dragon-2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1975"]
[ECO "D47"]
[Opening "Semi-Slav"]
[Time "18:47:09"]
[Variation "Meran, 8.Bd3 Bd6"]
[WhiteElo "2052"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "72"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 8.
Bd3 Bd6 9. Bd2 O-O 10. Ne4 Nxe4 11. Bxe4 Bb7 12. a4 Nf6 13. Bd3 bxa4 14.
Bc3 c5 15. Qxa4 cxd4 16. Qxd4 e5 17. Qa4 Bxf3 18. gxf3 h6 19. O-O Nd5 20.
Qe4 Qg5+ 21. Kh1 Nf6 22. Qc6 Qh5 23. Rg1 Rfd8 24. Ba6 e4 25. f4 Qf3+ 26.
Rg2 Be7 27. Rf1 Rab8 28. Bb7 Rd1 29. Rxd1 Qxd1+ 30. Rg1 Qf3+ 31. Rg2 Ng4
32. h3 Nxf2+ 33. Kg1 Qd1+ 34. Kh2 Qh1+ 35. Kg3 Bh4+ 36. Kxh4 Qxh3# 0-1[/pgn]

I think that you played rather well in these two games for a 1950 player at 15' + 10", but you are probably right that the formula is a bit too generous in rating Dragon around levels 16 thru 19. You already know that your friend Jorge Hasbun was even with levels 21 and 22 combined at that level, so the formula seems about right at those levels, and probably Ruiz at 2286 would be somewhere between levels 20 and 21 at that time control. For knight odds instead perhaps try the b1 knight for variety this time, with depth 22 and four threads.

So why cc2150dx Jason Coombs stated this?
Skill levels 1-24 are set to play with 1 core/thread regardless of how many cores/threads you set.

[lkaufman]

This time I set up the Skill Level to 18 in Dragon2, there must be something wrong with the Skill Level 114 x 18 = 2052 ? Another question is when I set the skill level to 18 is that with 1 core or with 4 cores on my intel i7 3.40GHz ? So far I have been playing those two game with only 1 core

I just Called Adan Manuel Mazara Ruiz rated 2286 and agree to play Knight Odds at 45'+ 10" instead of using Skill Level 18 tomorrow. https://ratings.fide.com/profile/6400248

[pgn][Event "Skill Level = 18"]
[Date "2021.09.17"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Dragon-2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1975"]
[ECO "D47"]
[Opening "Semi-Slav"]
[Time "18:47:09"]
[Variation "Meran, 8.Bd3 Bd6"]
[WhiteElo "2052"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "72"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 8.
Bd3 Bd6 9. Bd2 O-O 10. Ne4 Nxe4 11. Bxe4 Bb7 12. a4 Nf6 13. Bd3 bxa4 14.
Bc3 c5 15. Qxa4 cxd4 16. Qxd4 e5 17. Qa4 Bxf3 18. gxf3 h6 19. O-O Nd5 20.
Qe4 Qg5+ 21. Kh1 Nf6 22. Qc6 Qh5 23. Rg1 Rfd8 24. Ba6 e4 25. f4 Qf3+ 26.
Rg2 Be7 27. Rf1 Rab8 28. Bb7 Rd1 29. Rxd1 Qxd1+ 30. Rg1 Qf3+ 31. Rg2 Ng4
32. h3 Nxf2+ 33. Kg1 Qd1+ 34. Kh2 Qh1+ 35. Kg3 Bh4+ 36. Kxh4 Qxh3# 0-1[/pgn]

I think that you played rather well in these two games for a 1950 player at 15' + 10", but you are probably right that the formula is a bit too generous in rating Dragon around levels 16 thru 19. You already know that your friend Jorge Hasbun was even with levels 21 and 22 combined at that level, so the formula seems about right at those levels, and probably Ruiz at 2286 would be somewhere between levels 20 and 21 at that time control. For knight odds instead perhaps try the b1 knight for variety this time, with depth 22 and four threads.

So why cc2150dx Jason Coombs stated this?
Skill levels 1-24 are set to play with 1 core/thread regardless of how many cores/threads you set.

I imagine he read that the Skill levels were calibrated based on one thread and wrongly assumed that threads were just set to 1 automatically.
I'm really having a tough time deciding what CCRL Rapid rating corresponds to a FIDE human rating of let's say 2000, assuming both players are playing 15' + 10" rapid on the reference i7 hardware. Some people seem to think that the CCRL ratings are way too low, several hundred below 2000 in this example, while others think they are just slightly low in this range. What is your own experience as to which engine or engines are a fair match for you in 15' + 10" rapid?