Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

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lkaufman
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Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by lkaufman »

KomodoChess has just released Dragon 2.5 at KomodoChess.com. Normally we would call this 2.1, but it is probably the
largest upgrade we have had between versions in many years, with the exception of the NNUE idea first implemented
in Dragon 1. It could easily be Dragon 3, but it's only been four months since Dragon 2 and we can't use that name
this soon contractually. It has a larger, "smarter", better trained net, and noticeably more search depth due to search
enhancements. Estimated elo gains in standard mode over Dragon 2 range from 50 at long time controls on four threads
to 60 at CCRL blitz (2' + 1") on four threads to 72 at CCRL blitz on one thread. In MCTS mode gains are even larger
by about ten elo. All this is based on direct matches of 3400 games or more with a normal opening book. Gains are
even larger with unbalanced books, and especially large in Fischerandom (chess960), where on one thread at blitz
Dragon 2.5 beat Dragon 2 by a full hundred elo in a 3400 game match! It also defeated Stockfish 14 in a 650 game bullet
(half minute plus half second inc) FRC match by 11 elo (132 wins, 112 losses, 406 draws).
The main new feature is a major improvement to the Skill levels. There are now 35, up from 25, and they now consider
node count, depth, and eval randomizing in a much more logical, gradual way than in prior versions. The levels should
much better simulate the play of a human at that level playing a game with enough time to think thruout the game. The
intent is that each level should be a fair match at Rapid (15' + 10") chess with a human of the same FIDE rating as
the Skill level set with two zeroes added. Of course since no human has a FIDE rating (standard or Rapid) above 2900,
the levels above that are only simulations of how a top ten human player would play with much longer time limits,
maybe several hours per move Correspondence chess (unaided) in the case of level 34. All of this assumes Threads are
set to one; a setting of threads=2 will raise the stronger Skill levels considerably, up to the equivalent of an
extra level. For blitz play with a human the level should be set one or two levels lower than the player's rating
would indicate. Level 35 is just unlimited full strength play, estimated at 3500 FIDE Rapid on one thread. Please
note that while the spacing between the levels has been pretty well checked, there have been very few actual test
games with humans other than myself, so it may well turn out that most of the skill levels in the human FIDE-rated
range may be too high or too low by perhaps 50 or even 100 elo points. I've used all available data to try to get
this right, but running games against other engines, even with known ratings vs. humans, is not the same as a direct
human match, and I may not be a typical human for my Elo for many reasons. So please send us your results against
appropriate Skill levels, especially at 15' + 10", along with your rating (FIDE preferred, but others such as
chess.com or lichess Rapid ratings are also useful). We can always recommend adjustments or make changes to the
levels for a subsequent update.
There is no price increase for Dragon 2.5, subscribers get it free, Dragon 2 will go on sale, and all customers who
bought Komodo 14 or a later version get a 20% discount.
Komodo rules!
Chessqueen
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Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by Chessqueen »

Good idea, but due to pandemic, my age, and the vaccine needing booster it’s not practical for me now. But I expect we’ll have another online match with knight odds after next release, which should be soon. We’ll upgrade you for free for these games with Santana, just send me a reminder when you see an announcement.

Komodo rules!

I would like to have the newer version, so I can continue testing it against Jose Santana or other strong IM. My email Address is pichardojnsc2@gmail.com
Do NOT worry and be happy, it is a short life :roll:
lkaufman
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Re: Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by lkaufman »

Chessqueen wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:30 pm Good idea, but due to pandemic, my age, and the vaccine needing booster it’s not practical for me now. But I expect we’ll have another online match with knight odds after next release, which should be soon. We’ll upgrade you for free for these games with Santana, just send me a reminder when you see an announcement.

Komodo rules!

I would like to have the newer version, so I can continue testing it against Jose Santana or other strong IM. My email Address is pichardojnsc2@gmail.com
You should have it now. Send me a message here if you do not get it.
Komodo rules!
Jouni
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm

Re: Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by Jouni »

Beating SF14 in FRC is stunning. Dragon 2 lost in CCRL 116.5 − 183.5!
Jouni
lkaufman
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Re: Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by lkaufman »

Jouni wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:20 pm Beating SF14 in FRC is stunning. Dragon 2 lost in CCRL 116.5 − 183.5!
Well we got Dragon 2.5 beating Dragon 2 in FRC blitz by 100 elo in a very long match, and your above result is +79 elo, so based on this Dragon 2.5 should beat SF14 by 21 elo (though I don't expect that)! My actual result in 500 games was plus 11 elo at bullet (half min plus half second), with blitz (2' +1") results virtually dead even so far. A lot depends on details such as time control and the exact type of computer you are using; we seem to do better with the newer ones. Don't know why.
Komodo rules!
Chessqueen
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by Chessqueen »

lkaufman wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:43 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:30 pm Good idea, but due to pandemic, my age, and the vaccine needing booster it’s not practical for me now. But I expect we’ll have another online match with knight odds after next release, which should be soon. We’ll upgrade you for free for these games with Santana, just send me a reminder when you see an announcement.

Komodo rules!

I would like to have the newer version, so I can continue testing it against Jose Santana or other strong IM. My email Address is pichardojnsc2@gmail.com
You should have it now. Send me a message here if you do not get it.
Mr. Kaufman, for some reason I did not get it, I checked my inbox and nothing is there.
Do NOT worry and be happy, it is a short life :roll:
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CMCanavessi
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Location: Argentina

Re: Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by CMCanavessi »

Awesome release, Larry. Looks like it's a huge improvement in all fronts!
Now that you have released several versions of Dragon and that they literally wipe the floor with old-non-NNUE Komodo, have you thought of making K13 and K14 free? Even more so considering that they are not that much stronger than K12, if at all. They do pack more features though.
Follow my tournament and some Leela gauntlets live at http://twitch.tv/ccls
Chessqueen
Posts: 5568
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by Chessqueen »

CMCanavessi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:15 pm Awesome release, Larry. Looks like it's a huge improvement in all fronts!
Now that you have released several versions of Dragon and that they literally wipe the floor with old-non-NNUE Komodo, have you thought of making K13 and K14 free? Even more so considering that they are not that much stronger than K12, if at all. They do pack more features though.
I was thinking the same, probably K13 for FREE and to lower down the price of K14 to the previous price of K13
Do NOT worry and be happy, it is a short life :roll:
lkaufman
Posts: 5959
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by lkaufman »

Chessqueen wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:58 pm
lkaufman wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:43 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:30 pm Good idea, but due to pandemic, my age, and the vaccine needing booster it’s not practical for me now. But I expect we’ll have another online match with knight odds after next release, which should be soon. We’ll upgrade you for free for these games with Santana, just send me a reminder when you see an announcement.

Komodo rules!

I would like to have the newer version, so I can continue testing it against Jose Santana or other strong IM. My email Address is pichardojnsc2@gmail.com
You should have it now. Send me a message here if you do not get it.
Mr. Kaufman, for some reason I did not get it, I checked my inbox and nothing is there.
I see, typo in your email address. We'll resend soon.
Komodo rules!
lkaufman
Posts: 5959
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: Komodo Dragon 2.5 released.

Post by lkaufman »

Chessqueen wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:24 pm
CMCanavessi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:15 pm Awesome release, Larry. Looks like it's a huge improvement in all fronts!
Now that you have released several versions of Dragon and that they literally wipe the floor with old-non-NNUE Komodo, have you thought of making K13 and K14 free? Even more so considering that they are not that much stronger than K12, if at all. They do pack more features though.
I was thinking the same, probably K13 for FREE and to lower down the price of K14 to the previous price of K13
I expect we'll do that eventually, it's not a priority now.
Komodo rules!
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