Hi!
This platform will be widespread in the near future thanks to Microsoft Surface devices and Parallels Desktop M1 for Mac Big Sur:
Here I will collect all the chess engines available:
-IGEL 3.0.5 NNUE ARM64 NEON https://github.com/vshcherbyna/igel/releases/tag/3.0.5
Strong engine by the Ukranian Volodymyr Shcherbyna
Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
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Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 Mac mini M1 8GB-256GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
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Re: Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
It will flop like all the other non-x86 Windows platforms in the past, and even like the Surface itself. Here's why:
- Unlike Apple's Rosetta2, Microsoft uses a runtime emulation for existing applications. That's slow.
- Unlike Apple, Microsoft doesn't control the hardware ecosystem.
- Unlike Apple, Microsoft cannot sell anything via hype because Microsoft is as sexy as faded-beige 1990s office gear.
- Unlike Apple users, Windows users are not willing to ditch their existing software. In fact, backwards compatibility is one of Windows' main unique selling points.
- That creates a chicken / egg problem of no software and no device buyers.
- Microsoft's bad track record of trying things and then ditching them creates even less incentive to buy.
- Qualcomm's chips aren't on a par with Apple's M1.
- By the time Qualcomm might be there, AMD will be shipping Zen4 with 5nm anyway.
- The pricing of the Surfaces is ridiculous, and Windows users don't accept that.
Rasmus Althoff
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Re: Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
I think that's pretty accurate.
I have to say, I am extremely impressed by Apple managing back in the day to both switch its hardware platform (to Intel) and its OS layer (to Mach/MacOS) and not lose its customer base in the process: in fact, gaining market and share. That is usually not what happens to companies that re-platform. It looks like they are going to succeed again with M1. But Microsoft: certainly not clear they will. I remember how Windows on Alpha and Windows on Itanium died.
I have to say, I am extremely impressed by Apple managing back in the day to both switch its hardware platform (to Intel) and its OS layer (to Mach/MacOS) and not lose its customer base in the process: in fact, gaining market and share. That is usually not what happens to companies that re-platform. It looks like they are going to succeed again with M1. But Microsoft: certainly not clear they will. I remember how Windows on Alpha and Windows on Itanium died.
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Re: Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
No need of Microsoft Surface hardware, Silicon M1+ Is enaught https://www.engadget.com/windows-11-lea ... 19963.html
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 Mac mini M1 8GB-256GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
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Re: Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
The article is about the visual design of Windows 11 which is said to resemble macOS. Do you really think that just because Windows 11 has rounded corners, this means it will run on M1 hardware and magically support existing Windows applications when running on M1 hardware?!AlexChess wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:21 pmNo need of Microsoft Surface hardware, Silicon M1+ Is enaught https://www.engadget.com/windows-11-lea ... 19963.html
Rasmus Althoff
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Re: Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
jdart wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:52 am I have to say, I am extremely impressed by Apple managing back in the day to both switch its hardware platform (to Intel) and its OS layer (to Mach/MacOS) and not lose its customer base in the process: in fact, gaining market and share. That is usually not what happens to companies that re-platform. It looks like they are going to succeed again with M1.
Microsoft is a company that creates (boring) business software, such as Office, Project, Visio, PowerBi, SQL Server, Visual Studio, etc... and they have an operating system to run that stuff on, which _happens_ to be Windows. Lots of MS software (and software from other software makers) runs _only_ on Windows. Microsoft, and Windows, are just boooring to normal people. It's an OS. You install it on a computer, and it runs software. And games. If you want to game, you need Windows. Most games run only on Windows (and consoles), give or take some exceptions. (Valve is trying to change that, but as I don't game on Valve's platforms, I don't know how far they are succeeding.)But Microsoft: certainly not clear they will. I remember how Windows on Alpha and Windows on Itanium died.
Compared to that, Apple is basically a religious cult. They can do _whatever the *** they want_, and the people who use Apple will _keep_ using Apple. Whatever Apple does, they'll either love it, or even if they hate it, they hate Microsoft (and Windows) more, so they'll _still_ keep using Apple.
disclaimer: I use Windows on the desktop, because it runs everything I want to run on my desktop, without hassle. Including photography software that is NOT GIMP. I run Linux on the servers, because I'm MUCH better at the BASH command line than I am at Powershell (on Windows, my default shell is also Bash, through MSYS2), so I can remote-admin the servers over SSH. I also have an iPad, because I use it for sheet music. ForScore is the best application for that (and only available on iPad), and the Pro 12.9 was largest tablet in existence when I bought it in 2019. (I wouldn't even touch anything Samsung with a 10 foot pole. Neither with a 20 foot one.)
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Re: Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
I wouldn't call Azure boring. It's cutting edge. Really capable cloud platform. Great dev tools. There still is a need to write desktop software and install MSIs on Windows clients, sure. But most business development is happening in the cloud now. Microsoft is enabling that via Azure. Mobile is big too. And mobile talks to data services running in the cloud.
My C# chess engine: https://www.madchess.net
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Re: Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
For a developer, Azure and some of the MS dev tools are great software. What I mean is that from the viewpoint of "normal" users (the ones that run Office, play games, use a computer for internet and e-mail), most MS software is boring (*), because it's just business software, and they possibly haven't even heard of Azure.emadsen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:25 am I wouldn't call Azure boring. It's cutting edge. Really capable cloud platform. Great dev tools. There still is a need to write desktop software and install MSIs on Windows clients, sure. But most business development is happening in the cloud now. Microsoft is enabling that via Azure. Mobile is big too. And mobile talks to data services running in the cloud.
( * Apple basically made a bazillion Mac vs. PC commercials about it.)
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Re: Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
You are a little off-topic
I also use every operating system, but here we are discussing about chess engines.
I also use every operating system, but here we are discussing about chess engines.
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 Mac mini M1 8GB-256GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
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Re: Engines compiled for Windows 10 | 11 ARM64 Neon
Yes.Ras wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:49 pmThe article is about the visual design of Windows 11 which is said to resemble macOS. Do you really think that just because Windows 11 has rounded corners, this means it will run on M1 hardware and magically support existing Windows applications when running on M1 hardware?!AlexChess wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:21 pmNo need of Microsoft Surface hardware, Silicon M1+ Is enaught https://www.engadget.com/windows-11-lea ... 19963.html
https://fossbytes.com/how-to-install-wi ... c-macbook/ free on Qemu.
On Parallels Desktop M1 will be faster. Windows 10 ARM64 is already perfectly stable on it.
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 Mac mini M1 8GB-256GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
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