What did we decide on this position? win or draw?

[acase]

Hello Gentlemen,

About 14 years ago Terry McCracken posted this position (and it was a good one) from a game played in 1970, and looking at the discussion I couldn't tell what the conclusion was, although it seemed most of the forum favored the position being a draw. The engines seem to think that white can win this though. So my question is does white win or is it a draw?

[pgn][Event "Junior Tournament"]
[Site "Schilde 1970"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round ""]
[White "A. Petrosian"]
[Black "Hasaj"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN " 2k5/q1p5/3p4/pPpPp1pp/N1P1Pp2/P4PbP/KQ4P1/8 b - - 6 45"]

45...Qb6 {!! Damit will Schwarz eine uneinnehmbare Festung errichten.} 46.
Nxb6+ ( {Die einzige Alternative wäre der Versuch, den Bauern a5 zu
erobern, indem Weiß seine Dame zurück opfert, zum Beispiel} 46.Qd2
Kd7 47.Kb3 Kc8 ( 47...Qa7 48.Nb2 Kc8 49.Ka4 Kb7 50.Nd3 Kb6 ( 50...Qb6 51.
Qxa5 Qxa5+ 52.Kxa5 Bh2 53.h4 gxh4 54.Nf2 Bg1 55.Nh3 Bh2 56.Ng5 {+/-} ) 51.
Nxe5 {!!} 51...dxe5 52.Qb2 Qa8 53.Qxe5 Qd8 54.Qe6+ ) 48.Nxb6+ ( 48.Nb2 Kb7
49.Ka4 Qa7 50.Qxa5 Qxa5+ 51.Kxa5 Bf2 52.Nd3 Bd4 53.Ka4 Kb6 54.Kb3 Ka5 55.
Nc1 Bf2 ) 48...cxb6 49.Ka4 {!} 49...h4 {? Ein entscheidender Tempoverlust.
Es sieht so aus, als ob Schwarz seine Festung errichtet hat, aber hier
kann Weiß doch einbrechen mittels} ( 49...Kb7 {! wäre der richtige
Abwartezug, nun ginge das Damenopfer auf a5 nicht, denn nach} 50.Qxa5 {??}
( 50.h4 gxh4 51.Qc1 h3 {!} ( 51...Ka7 {??} 52.Qh1 {+ -} ) 52.gxh3 ( 52.Qh1
h2 ) 52...h4 53.Qd2 Ka7 {!, und wieder scheitert} 54.Qxa5+ bxa5 55.Kxa5
Be1+ {- +} ) 50...bxa5 51.Kxa5 {hätte Schwarz die Verteidigung} 51...
Be1+ ) 50.Qxa5 {!!} 50...bxa5 51.Kxa5 Kb7 ( 51...Bf2 52.b6 Kb7 53.Kb5 Be1
54.a4 Bb4 55.a5 {+ -} ) ( 51...Be1+ {Kommt jetzt zu spät, weil der
weiße König vormarschieren kann.} 52.Ka6 Kb8 53.Kb6 Bc3 54.a4 ) 52.
b6 Be1+ 53.Kb5 {+ -} ) ( 46.Qe2 Kd8 47.Kb3 ( 47.Qf1 Kc8 48.Nb2 a4 49.Qd1
Qa5 50.Nxa4 Bf2 ) ( 47.Nxb6 cxb6 48.Kb3 h4 49.Ka4 Kc7 50.Qd2 Kb7 51.Qxa5 {
? scheitert nun an} 51...bxa5 52.Kxa5 Be1+ 53.Ka4 Kb6 {- + und hier
würde Schwarz gewinnen.} ) 47...Kd7 48.Nb2 a4+ 49.Nxa4 Qa5 50.Nc3 Kc8 {
oo/=} ) 46...cxb6 47.h4 gxh4 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

And thank you for your replies.

[Nordlandia]

What is suggested is not to take the queen by putting the king on a4 and capture the weak pawn on a5. Whether it is enough to win is another matter. It is tight to pry the troops in via a file anyway.

If white can force the capture without the black bishop can interfere somehow.

[peter]

Hello Gentlemen,

About 14 years ago Terry McCracken posted this position (and it was a good one) from a game played in 1970, and looking at the discussion I couldn't tell what the conclusion was, although it seemed most of the forum favored the position being a draw. The engines seem to think that white can win this though. So my question is does white win or is it a draw?

[pgn][Event "Junior Tournament"]
[Site "Schilde 1970"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round ""]
[White "A. Petrosian"]
[Black "Hasaj"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN " 2k5/q1p5/3p4/pPpPp1pp/N1P1Pp2/P4PbP/KQ4P1/8 b - - 6 45"]

45...Qb6 {!! Damit will Schwarz eine uneinnehmbare Festung errichten.} 46.
Nxb6+ ( {Die einzige Alternative wäre der Versuch, den Bauern a5 zu
erobern, indem Weiß seine Dame zurück opfert, zum Beispiel} 46.Qd2
Kd7 47.Kb3 Kc8 ( 47...Qa7 48.Nb2 Kc8 49.Ka4 Kb7 50.Nd3 Kb6 ( 50...Qb6 51.
Qxa5 Qxa5+ 52.Kxa5 Bh2 53.h4 gxh4 54.Nf2 Bg1 55.Nh3 Bh2 56.Ng5 {+/-} ) 51.
Nxe5 {!!} 51...dxe5 52.Qb2 Qa8 53.Qxe5 Qd8 54.Qe6+ ) 48.Nxb6+ ( 48.Nb2 Kb7
49.Ka4 Qa7 50.Qxa5 Qxa5+ 51.Kxa5 Bf2 52.Nd3 Bd4 53.Ka4 Kb6 54.Kb3 Ka5 55.
Nc1 Bf2 ) 48...cxb6 49.Ka4 {!} 49...h4 {? Ein entscheidender Tempoverlust.
Es sieht so aus, als ob Schwarz seine Festung errichtet hat, aber hier
kann Weiß doch einbrechen mittels} ( 49...Kb7 {! wäre der richtige
Abwartezug, nun ginge das Damenopfer auf a5 nicht, denn nach} 50.Qxa5 {??}
( 50.h4 gxh4 51.Qc1 h3 {!} ( 51...Ka7 {??} 52.Qh1 {+ -} ) 52.gxh3 ( 52.Qh1
h2 ) 52...h4 53.Qd2 Ka7 {!, und wieder scheitert} 54.Qxa5+ bxa5 55.Kxa5
Be1+ {- +} ) 50...bxa5 51.Kxa5 {hätte Schwarz die Verteidigung} 51...
Be1+ ) 50.Qxa5 {!!} 50...bxa5 51.Kxa5 Kb7 ( 51...Bf2 52.b6 Kb7 53.Kb5 Be1
54.a4 Bb4 55.a5 {+ -} ) ( 51...Be1+ {Kommt jetzt zu spät, weil der
weiße König vormarschieren kann.} 52.Ka6 Kb8 53.Kb6 Bc3 54.a4 ) 52.
b6 Be1+ 53.Kb5 {+ -} ) ( 46.Qe2 Kd8 47.Kb3 ( 47.Qf1 Kc8 48.Nb2 a4 49.Qd1
Qa5 50.Nxa4 Bf2 ) ( 47.Nxb6 cxb6 48.Kb3 h4 49.Ka4 Kc7 50.Qd2 Kb7 51.Qxa5 {
? scheitert nun an} 51...bxa5 52.Kxa5 Be1+ 53.Ka4 Kb6 {- + und hier
würde Schwarz gewinnen.} ) 47...Kd7 48.Nb2 a4+ 49.Nxa4 Qa5 50.Nc3 Kc8 {
oo/=} ) 46...cxb6 47.h4 gxh4 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

And thank you for your replies.

You could go through this one thread from its end here

https://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic. ... 56#p919556

maybe backward to here

https://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic. ... 26#p919326

where I tried to describe White's winning plans verbally once in a while way back then.

Here I have a recent game between Crystal and SF dev. at 2x15 threads of 16x3.5GHz:

[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 30.0min+10.0sek"]
[Site "Dort"]
[Date "2023.04.12"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Crystal 5 KWK"]
[Black "Stockfish"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E87"]
[Annotator "1.69;1.62"]
[PlyCount "165"]
[TimeControl "1800+10"]

{AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor 3400 MHz W=32.2 plies; 17.603kN/s B=41.8 plies; 21.211kN/s} 1. c4 g6 2. Nc3 Bg7 3. d4 Nf6 4. e4 d6 5. f3 e5 6. d5 Na6 7. Be3 Nh5 8. Qd2 Qh4+ 9. Bf2 Qe7 10. O-O-O O-O 11. Be3 f5 12. Bd3 f4 13. Bf2 Bf6 14. Nge2 Bh4 15. Bg1 Bd7 16. Kb1 b6 17. Nc1 Nc5 18. Bc2 a5 19. Bxc5 bxc5 20. Ba4 Bxa4 21. Nxa4 Rfb8 22. Qc2 Kh8 23. Rd3 Rb4 24. Ra3 Qe8 25. Nd3 g5 26. h3 Nf6 27. Rc1 Kg7 28. b3 Nd7 29. Qd2 Rb7 30. Ndb2 Nb6 31. Ka1 h5 32. Nd1 Nxa4 33. Rxa4 Rb4 34. Nc3 Qc8 35. Nb5 Bg3 36. Qe2 Kf6 37. Rb1 Ke7 38. a3 Rxa4 39. bxa4 Kd8 40. Nc3 Rb8 41. Rb5 Rxb5 42. axb5 Qa8 43. Na4 Qa7 44. Ka2 Kc8 45. Qb2 Qb6 46. Qe2 {Beide letzter Buchzug} h4 {1.62/75 854} 47. Kb3 {1.69/49 860} Qa7 {3.00/55 0} 48. Kc3 {3.62/38 294} Bh2 {3.31/50 6 (Kb8)} 49. Qf1 {4.12/40 300 (Dd1)} Bg3 {4.05/48 181} 50. Kd2 {4.48/38 38 (Kd3)} Qb6 {4.32/45 177} 51. Ke2 {4.90/37 1} Kb8 {4.62/45 268 (Lh2)} 52. Qd1 {5.84/38 265 (Dc1)} Kc8 {4.65/52 126 (Ka8)} 53. Nb2 {6.00/36 178 (Dc2)} Kb7 {4.71/44 108 (Db7)} 54. Qc2 {6.05/37 156 (Sa4)} Bh2 {4.89/44 111 (Da7)} 55. Kf1 {6.86/33 84 (Sa4)} Qa7 {4.60/38 70 (Kb8)} 56. Na4 {7.26/37 57} Qb6 {4.78/42 0} 57. g4 {7.98/36 73 (Db3)} Bg3 {4.95/57 33} 58. Nb2 {8.33/33 21 (Db3)} Qa7 {5.41/54 102} 59. Qb3 {8.73/35 0 (Dd1)} Bh2 {5.49/44 31} 60. Qd1 {9.17/36 29 (Sa4)} Bg3 {5.72/53 91} 61. Qc2 {9.44/37 0} Kb8 {5.75/43 56 (Kc8)} 62. a4 {10.65/31 9} Kb7 {6.00/48 156} 63. Nd3 {11.98/35 0} Qb6 {6.25/31 15} 64. Qc3 {13.12/35 27 (Dd2)} Bh2 {6.81/44 22} 65. Nc1 {13.18/35 26 (Db2)} Qa7 {6.73/32 18} 66. Kf2 {13.29/32 8 (Sd3)} Bg3+ {7.07/73 28} 67. Kg2 {13.69/33 5 (Kf1)} Kb6 {7.07/36 8 (Da8)} 68. Nd3 {13.97/30 10} Kb7 {7.07/44 0} 69. Nxe5 {14.26/27 10 (Kg1)} dxe5 {5.09/36 9} 70. Qxe5 {14.80/29 18} Be1 {5.53/32 0} 71. Kf1 {15.57/28 29 (Dxg5)} Bb4 {6.72/33 33 (Ld2)} 72. Qg7 {15.78/23 19 (Dxg5)} Ka8 {6.16/25 7 (Db8)} 73. e5 {16.96/23 3} Bc3 {7.18/27 5} 74. Ke2 {16.96/23 4} Qb8 {7.60/29 12 (Lb2)} 75. Kd3 {19.57/22 6} Ba1 {7.84/31 13 (Ld4)} 76. Ke4 {19.94/22 9} Qe8 {8.23/23 0} 77. Qxg5 {20.94/22 7} Kb8 {8.64/27 18} 78. Qf6 {25.52/23 9 (Dg7)} Qc8 {10.46/30 19 (Lxe5)} 79. Qf5 {#123/20 5 (De6)} Qh8 {10.55/23 9} 80. g5 {#26/23 0} Bxe5 {13.28/25 10} 81. Qxe5 {#20/30 5} Qh7+ {29.69/31 6} 82. Kxf4 {#18/35 12} Qc2 {30.30/28 2} 83. b6 {#17/37 8 (De8+) adjud.} 1-0
[/pgn]

[mclane]

1.e4 d5

[peter]

Here I have a recent game between Crystal and SF dev. at 2x15 threads of 16x3.5GHz:

[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 30.0min+10.0sek"]
[Site "Dort"]
[Date "2023.04.12"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Crystal 5 KWK"]
[Black "Stockfish"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E87"]
[Annotator "1.69;1.62"]
[PlyCount "165"]
[TimeControl "1800+10"]

{AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor 3400 MHz W=32.2 plies; 17.603kN/s B=41.8 plies; 21.211kN/s} 1. c4 g6 2. Nc3 Bg7 3. d4 Nf6 4. e4 d6 5. f3 e5 6. d5 Na6 7. Be3 Nh5 8. Qd2 Qh4+ 9. Bf2 Qe7 10. O-O-O O-O 11. Be3 f5 12. Bd3 f4 13. Bf2 Bf6 14. Nge2 Bh4 15. Bg1 Bd7 16. Kb1 b6 17. Nc1 Nc5 18. Bc2 a5 19. Bxc5 bxc5 20. Ba4 Bxa4 21. Nxa4 Rfb8 22. Qc2 Kh8 23. Rd3 Rb4 24. Ra3 Qe8 25. Nd3 g5 26. h3 Nf6 27. Rc1 Kg7 28. b3 Nd7 29. Qd2 Rb7 30. Ndb2 Nb6 31. Ka1 h5 32. Nd1 Nxa4 33. Rxa4 Rb4 34. Nc3 Qc8 35. Nb5 Bg3 36. Qe2 Kf6 37. Rb1 Ke7 38. a3 Rxa4 39. bxa4 Kd8 40. Nc3 Rb8 41. Rb5 Rxb5 42. axb5 Qa8 43. Na4 Qa7 44. Ka2 Kc8 45. Qb2 Qb6 46. Qe2 {Beide letzter Buchzug} h4 {1.62/75 854} 47. Kb3 {1.69/49 860} Qa7 {3.00/55 0} 48. Kc3 {3.62/38 294} Bh2 {3.31/50 6 (Kb8)} 49. Qf1 {4.12/40 300 (Dd1)} Bg3 {4.05/48 181} 50. Kd2 {4.48/38 38 (Kd3)} Qb6 {4.32/45 177} 51. Ke2 {4.90/37 1} Kb8 {4.62/45 268 (Lh2)} 52. Qd1 {5.84/38 265 (Dc1)} Kc8 {4.65/52 126 (Ka8)} 53. Nb2 {6.00/36 178 (Dc2)} Kb7 {4.71/44 108 (Db7)} 54. Qc2 {6.05/37 156 (Sa4)} Bh2 {4.89/44 111 (Da7)} 55. Kf1 {6.86/33 84 (Sa4)} Qa7 {4.60/38 70 (Kb8)} 56. Na4 {7.26/37 57} Qb6 {4.78/42 0} 57. g4 {7.98/36 73 (Db3)} Bg3 {4.95/57 33} 58. Nb2 {8.33/33 21 (Db3)} Qa7 {5.41/54 102} 59. Qb3 {8.73/35 0 (Dd1)} Bh2 {5.49/44 31} 60. Qd1 {9.17/36 29 (Sa4)} Bg3 {5.72/53 91} 61. Qc2 {9.44/37 0} Kb8 {5.75/43 56 (Kc8)} 62. a4 {10.65/31 9} Kb7 {6.00/48 156} 63. Nd3 {11.98/35 0} Qb6 {6.25/31 15} 64. Qc3 {13.12/35 27 (Dd2)} Bh2 {6.81/44 22} 65. Nc1 {13.18/35 26 (Db2)} Qa7 {6.73/32 18} 66. Kf2 {13.29/32 8 (Sd3)} Bg3+ {7.07/73 28} 67. Kg2 {13.69/33 5 (Kf1)} Kb6 {7.07/36 8 (Da8)} 68. Nd3 {13.97/30 10} Kb7 {7.07/44 0} 69. Nxe5 {14.26/27 10 (Kg1)} dxe5 {5.09/36 9} 70. Qxe5 {14.80/29 18} Be1 {5.53/32 0} 71. Kf1 {15.57/28 29 (Dxg5)} Bb4 {6.72/33 33 (Ld2)} 72. Qg7 {15.78/23 19 (Dxg5)} Ka8 {6.16/25 7 (Db8)} 73. e5 {16.96/23 3} Bc3 {7.18/27 5} 74. Ke2 {16.96/23 4} Qb8 {7.60/29 12 (Lb2)} 75. Kd3 {19.57/22 6} Ba1 {7.84/31 13 (Ld4)} 76. Ke4 {19.94/22 9} Qe8 {8.23/23 0} 77. Qxg5 {20.94/22 7} Kb8 {8.64/27 18} 78. Qf6 {25.52/23 9 (Dg7)} Qc8 {10.46/30 19 (Lxe5)} 79. Qf5 {#123/20 5 (De6)} Qh8 {10.55/23 9} 80. g5 {#26/23 0} Bxe5 {13.28/25 10} 81. Qxe5 {#20/30 5} Qh7+ {29.69/31 6} 82. Kxf4 {#18/35 12} Qc2 {30.30/28 2} 83. b6 {#17/37 8 (De8+) adjud.} 1-0
[/pgn]

And another one, this time LC0 (3070ti GPU) playing for White. Here SF with 30 threads did let happen the shortest way to success without even trying to centralize the Bishop. That might have given again some harder resistance, forcing White to relieve Queen from guarding first rank with the King first, as shown in game Crystal- SF before.

[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 30.0min+10.0sek"]
[Site "Dort"]
[Date "2023.04.13"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Lc0 v0.30.0-dag+git.1842e13d"]
[Black "Stockfish"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E87"]
[Annotator "1.06;0.94"]
[PlyCount "124"]
[TimeControl "1800+10"]

{AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor 3400 MHz W=16.1 plies; 12kN/s; 3 TBAs B=51.3 plies; 43.925kN/s; 184.546.125 TBAs} 1. c4 g6 2. Nc3 Bg7 3. d4 Nf6 4. e4 d6 5. f3 e5 6. d5 Na6 7. Be3 Nh5 8. Qd2 Qh4+ 9. Bf2 Qe7 10. O-O-O O-O 11. Be3 f5 12. Bd3 f4 13. Bf2 Bf6 14. Nge2 Bh4 15. Bg1 Bd7 16. Kb1 b6 17. Nc1 Nc5 18. Bc2 a5 19. Bxc5 bxc5 20. Ba4 Bxa4 21. Nxa4 Rfb8 22. Qc2 Kh8 23. Rd3 Rb4 24. Ra3 Qe8 25. Nd3 g5 26. h3 Nf6 27. Rc1 Kg7 28. b3 Nd7 29. Qd2 Rb7 30. Ndb2 Nb6 31. Ka1 h5 32. Nd1 Nxa4 33. Rxa4 Rb4 34. Nc3 Qc8 35. Nb5 Bg3 36. Qe2 Kf6 37. Rb1 Ke7 38. a3 Rxa4 39. bxa4 Kd8 40. Nc3 Rb8 41. Rb5 Rxb5 42. axb5 Qa8 43. Na4 Qa7 44. Ka2 Kc8 45. Qb2 Qb6 46. Qe2 {Beide letzter Buchzug} h4 {0.94/76 855} 47. Kb3 {1.06/24 417 (Sxb6+)} Qb7 {0.94/71 55 (Da7)} 48. Nb2 {2.55/22 276 (Db2)} a4+ {5.07/42 167} 49. Nxa4 {2.69/25 55} Qa8 {5.12/45 124} 50. Qd2 {2.96/25 118} Kb7 {5.73/50 130 (Lh2)} 51. Nxc5+ {4.83/23 247 (Sb2)} Kc8 {6.74/61 192 (dxc5)} 52. Nd3 {15.00/11 242} Qa7 {9.06/38 200} 53. c5 {15.63/12 37} Kd8 {9.76/32 342 (dxc5)} 54. Qb4 {17.31/11 314 (Dc3)} dxc5 {13.00/48 115} 55. Qc4 {16.94/12 5} Kc8 {16.15/36 132 (Da5)} 56. Nxe5 {16.93/12 98} Qa5 {17.88/34 0} 57. Qxc5 {17.72/12 149 (d6)} Qe1 {8.38/27 12} 58. b6 {24.40/13 27 (d6)} Qb1+ {79.94/33 35 (Dd1+)} 59. Kc4 {29.34/14 69} Qc2+ {#23/60 0} 60. Kb5 {29.75/13 18} Qxc5+ {#22/64 0} 61. Kxc5 {26.75/11 17} Bf2+ {#21/63 0} 62. Kc6 {19.31/11 88} Bxb6 {#20/70 0 adjud.} 1-0[/pgn]

[acase]

What is suggested is not to take the queen by putting the king on a4 and capture the weak pawn on a5. Whether it is enough to win is another matter. It is tight to pry the troops in via a file anyway.

If white can force the capture without the black bishop can interfere somehow.

Thank you for the idea of how the plan works Jon.

[acase]

Here I have a recent game between Crystal and SF dev. at 2x15 threads of 16x3.5GHz:

[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 30.0min+10.0sek"]
[Site "Dort"]
[Date "2023.04.12"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Crystal 5 KWK"]
[Black "Stockfish"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E87"]
[Annotator "1.69;1.62"]
[PlyCount "165"]
[TimeControl "1800+10"]

{AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor 3400 MHz W=32.2 plies; 17.603kN/s B=41.8 plies; 21.211kN/s} 1. c4 g6 2. Nc3 Bg7 3. d4 Nf6 4. e4 d6 5. f3 e5 6. d5 Na6 7. Be3 Nh5 8. Qd2 Qh4+ 9. Bf2 Qe7 10. O-O-O O-O 11. Be3 f5 12. Bd3 f4 13. Bf2 Bf6 14. Nge2 Bh4 15. Bg1 Bd7 16. Kb1 b6 17. Nc1 Nc5 18. Bc2 a5 19. Bxc5 bxc5 20. Ba4 Bxa4 21. Nxa4 Rfb8 22. Qc2 Kh8 23. Rd3 Rb4 24. Ra3 Qe8 25. Nd3 g5 26. h3 Nf6 27. Rc1 Kg7 28. b3 Nd7 29. Qd2 Rb7 30. Ndb2 Nb6 31. Ka1 h5 32. Nd1 Nxa4 33. Rxa4 Rb4 34. Nc3 Qc8 35. Nb5 Bg3 36. Qe2 Kf6 37. Rb1 Ke7 38. a3 Rxa4 39. bxa4 Kd8 40. Nc3 Rb8 41. Rb5 Rxb5 42. axb5 Qa8 43. Na4 Qa7 44. Ka2 Kc8 45. Qb2 Qb6 46. Qe2 {Beide letzter Buchzug} h4 {1.62/75 854} 47. Kb3 {1.69/49 860} Qa7 {3.00/55 0} 48. Kc3 {3.62/38 294} Bh2 {3.31/50 6 (Kb8)} 49. Qf1 {4.12/40 300 (Dd1)} Bg3 {4.05/48 181} 50. Kd2 {4.48/38 38 (Kd3)} Qb6 {4.32/45 177} 51. Ke2 {4.90/37 1} Kb8 {4.62/45 268 (Lh2)} 52. Qd1 {5.84/38 265 (Dc1)} Kc8 {4.65/52 126 (Ka8)} 53. Nb2 {6.00/36 178 (Dc2)} Kb7 {4.71/44 108 (Db7)} 54. Qc2 {6.05/37 156 (Sa4)} Bh2 {4.89/44 111 (Da7)} 55. Kf1 {6.86/33 84 (Sa4)} Qa7 {4.60/38 70 (Kb8)} 56. Na4 {7.26/37 57} Qb6 {4.78/42 0} 57. g4 {7.98/36 73 (Db3)} Bg3 {4.95/57 33} 58. Nb2 {8.33/33 21 (Db3)} Qa7 {5.41/54 102} 59. Qb3 {8.73/35 0 (Dd1)} Bh2 {5.49/44 31} 60. Qd1 {9.17/36 29 (Sa4)} Bg3 {5.72/53 91} 61. Qc2 {9.44/37 0} Kb8 {5.75/43 56 (Kc8)} 62. a4 {10.65/31 9} Kb7 {6.00/48 156} 63. Nd3 {11.98/35 0} Qb6 {6.25/31 15} 64. Qc3 {13.12/35 27 (Dd2)} Bh2 {6.81/44 22} 65. Nc1 {13.18/35 26 (Db2)} Qa7 {6.73/32 18} 66. Kf2 {13.29/32 8 (Sd3)} Bg3+ {7.07/73 28} 67. Kg2 {13.69/33 5 (Kf1)} Kb6 {7.07/36 8 (Da8)} 68. Nd3 {13.97/30 10} Kb7 {7.07/44 0} 69. Nxe5 {14.26/27 10 (Kg1)} dxe5 {5.09/36 9} 70. Qxe5 {14.80/29 18} Be1 {5.53/32 0} 71. Kf1 {15.57/28 29 (Dxg5)} Bb4 {6.72/33 33 (Ld2)} 72. Qg7 {15.78/23 19 (Dxg5)} Ka8 {6.16/25 7 (Db8)} 73. e5 {16.96/23 3} Bc3 {7.18/27 5} 74. Ke2 {16.96/23 4} Qb8 {7.60/29 12 (Lb2)} 75. Kd3 {19.57/22 6} Ba1 {7.84/31 13 (Ld4)} 76. Ke4 {19.94/22 9} Qe8 {8.23/23 0} 77. Qxg5 {20.94/22 7} Kb8 {8.64/27 18} 78. Qf6 {25.52/23 9 (Dg7)} Qc8 {10.46/30 19 (Lxe5)} 79. Qf5 {#123/20 5 (De6)} Qh8 {10.55/23 9} 80. g5 {#26/23 0} Bxe5 {13.28/25 10} 81. Qxe5 {#20/30 5} Qh7+ {29.69/31 6} 82. Kxf4 {#18/35 12} Qc2 {30.30/28 2} 83. b6 {#17/37 8 (De8+) adjud.} 1-0
[/pgn]

And another one, this time LC0 (3070ti GPU) playing for White. Here SF with 30 threads did let happen the shortest way to success without even trying to centralize the Bishop. That might have given again some harder resistance, forcing White to relieve Queen from guarding first rank with the King first, as shown in game Crystal- SF before.

[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 30.0min+10.0sek"]
[Site "Dort"]
[Date "2023.04.13"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Lc0 v0.30.0-dag+git.1842e13d"]
[Black "Stockfish"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E87"]
[Annotator "1.06;0.94"]
[PlyCount "124"]
[TimeControl "1800+10"]

{AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor 3400 MHz W=16.1 plies; 12kN/s; 3 TBAs B=51.3 plies; 43.925kN/s; 184.546.125 TBAs} 1. c4 g6 2. Nc3 Bg7 3. d4 Nf6 4. e4 d6 5. f3 e5 6. d5 Na6 7. Be3 Nh5 8. Qd2 Qh4+ 9. Bf2 Qe7 10. O-O-O O-O 11. Be3 f5 12. Bd3 f4 13. Bf2 Bf6 14. Nge2 Bh4 15. Bg1 Bd7 16. Kb1 b6 17. Nc1 Nc5 18. Bc2 a5 19. Bxc5 bxc5 20. Ba4 Bxa4 21. Nxa4 Rfb8 22. Qc2 Kh8 23. Rd3 Rb4 24. Ra3 Qe8 25. Nd3 g5 26. h3 Nf6 27. Rc1 Kg7 28. b3 Nd7 29. Qd2 Rb7 30. Ndb2 Nb6 31. Ka1 h5 32. Nd1 Nxa4 33. Rxa4 Rb4 34. Nc3 Qc8 35. Nb5 Bg3 36. Qe2 Kf6 37. Rb1 Ke7 38. a3 Rxa4 39. bxa4 Kd8 40. Nc3 Rb8 41. Rb5 Rxb5 42. axb5 Qa8 43. Na4 Qa7 44. Ka2 Kc8 45. Qb2 Qb6 46. Qe2 {Beide letzter Buchzug} h4 {0.94/76 855} 47. Kb3 {1.06/24 417 (Sxb6+)} Qb7 {0.94/71 55 (Da7)} 48. Nb2 {2.55/22 276 (Db2)} a4+ {5.07/42 167} 49. Nxa4 {2.69/25 55} Qa8 {5.12/45 124} 50. Qd2 {2.96/25 118} Kb7 {5.73/50 130 (Lh2)} 51. Nxc5+ {4.83/23 247 (Sb2)} Kc8 {6.74/61 192 (dxc5)} 52. Nd3 {15.00/11 242} Qa7 {9.06/38 200} 53. c5 {15.63/12 37} Kd8 {9.76/32 342 (dxc5)} 54. Qb4 {17.31/11 314 (Dc3)} dxc5 {13.00/48 115} 55. Qc4 {16.94/12 5} Kc8 {16.15/36 132 (Da5)} 56. Nxe5 {16.93/12 98} Qa5 {17.88/34 0} 57. Qxc5 {17.72/12 149 (d6)} Qe1 {8.38/27 12} 58. b6 {24.40/13 27 (d6)} Qb1+ {79.94/33 35 (Dd1+)} 59. Kc4 {29.34/14 69} Qc2+ {#23/60 0} 60. Kb5 {29.75/13 18} Qxc5+ {#22/64 0} 61. Kxc5 {26.75/11 17} Bf2+ {#21/63 0} 62. Kc6 {19.31/11 88} Bxb6 {#20/70 0 adjud.} 1-0[/pgn]

Thank you very much for the games with the PGNs Peter I truly appreciate it.
They were a big help in showing how the plan is implemented.

[acase]

1.e4 d5

Hi Thorsten, if you are challenging me to a game we should probably do it privately so we don't spam the forums. Also you should let me know if it is with or without computers.

[fishpov]

I always believed that this position was draw but maybe now I begin to have some doubt !
I am not sure here 46 .. h4 is the better move for black
We can have instead 46 .. Kb7 !

[peter]

I always believed that this position was draw but maybe now I begin to have some doubt !
I am not sure here 46 .. h4 is the better move for black
We can have instead 46 .. Kb7 !

You can delay ...h4 for some time, sooner or later engines will play it, as well as other moves, that can't be taken back, will have to be made sooner or later.
As a matter of fact, Black is in Zugzwang already and White needs not start with 46.Qe2 neither, almost all other moves except 46.Nxb6? work as well.
Have a look at this one trial of mine to describe White's winning ways in the thread from last year about the position

https://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic. ... 26#p919326

, if you find a longer line to draw by force yet, show it.

Did let SF play out after 46.Qe2 Kb7 (just because that's your proposal) but SF came along with ...h4 already at 47th after LC0's 47.Kb1, so it won't prove a thing to you neither, if LC0 would win that again, would it? After 47...h4 48.Kc2 SF's eval are already climbing for White again, regards