Your Thoughts on Naum 4
Moderator: Ras
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Mark
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 pm
Re: Your Thoughts on Naum 4
Is the Naum programmer, Alex, a one-man show, or does he have a team similar to Rybka? Naum 4 seems to be quite an accomplishment for one person!
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Sylwy
- Posts: 4857
- Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:19 pm
- Location: IAȘI - the historical capital of MOLDOVA
- Full name: Silvian Rucsandescu
Solo project
Naum is a solo project.
Maybe Alexandar Naumov uses for the evaluation function the knowledges of a Serbian GM friend ( Serbia has a lot of very good GMs in practical chess ).
Silvian
Maybe Alexandar Naumov uses for the evaluation function the knowledges of a Serbian GM friend ( Serbia has a lot of very good GMs in practical chess ).
Silvian
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Uri Blass
- Posts: 10893
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
- Location: Tel-Aviv Israel
Re: Your Thoughts on Naum 4
What is the basis for the claim that naum lack the search speed of R3?
Naum is weaker but being weaker can be also because of inferior evaluation.
The only reason to claim that rybka3 searches faster is if rybka is usually faster in finding the right moves in test positions when naum can also find the same move but needs more time and I wonder if people did comparison between rybka3 and naum4 in test positions.
Uri
Naum is weaker but being weaker can be also because of inferior evaluation.
The only reason to claim that rybka3 searches faster is if rybka is usually faster in finding the right moves in test positions when naum can also find the same move but needs more time and I wonder if people did comparison between rybka3 and naum4 in test positions.
Uri
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Dr.Wael Deeb
- Posts: 9773
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:44 pm
- Location: Amman,Jordan
Re: Your Thoughts on Naum 4
Hi Uri,Uri Blass wrote:What is the basis for the claim that naum lack the search speed of R3?
Naum is weaker but being weaker can be also because of inferior evaluation.
The only reason to claim that rybka3 searches faster is if rybka is usually faster in finding the right moves in test positions when naum can also find the same move but needs more time and I wonder if people did comparison between rybka3 and naum4 in test positions.
Uri
I am sure Majd is knowing what's he's talking about,I know the man
BTW,any news about a new version of Movei and why you're not so active here lately
A lot of questions regards,
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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Jouni
- Posts: 3656
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm
- Full name: Jouni Uski
Re: Your Thoughts on Naum 4
After 2 testing days I must admit Naum 4 is stunning program! I have never even considered to buy version 3, but 4 got my interest. In three 20 game matches against Rybka3 it got 8.5, 8 and 9 - simply awesome results. Naum gets about 4 plys more depth and 15x nodes to rybka 
One example game, where Naum gets king actively to game without fearing 3000 rated opponent:
[Event "Nunn"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.12.15"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Naum 4"]
[Black "Rybka 3 1-cpu 32-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D36"]
[Annotator "0.57;0.30"]
[PlyCount "157"]
[TimeControl "60/300:0/0:0/0"]
{Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz 2393 MHz W=16.1 ply; 425kN/s; 26 TBAs
B=13.0 ply; 18kN/s} 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 e6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. Bg5
Be7 7. Qc2 Nbd7 8. e3 O-O 9. Bd3 Re8 10. O-O Nf8 {Both last book move} 11. Ne5
{0.57/12 7} N6d7 {(Ng6) 0.30/10 18} 12. Bxe7 {0.41/14 9} Qxe7 {0.27/12 6} 13.
Nf3 {0.42/15 4} Nf6 {(Ng6) 0.23/12 15} 14. h3 {(a4) 0.38/15 16} Ne4 {
(Ng6) 0.16/12 37} 15. Rab1 {(Rac1) 0.28/12 9} Bf5 {(Ng6) 0.10/10 6} 16. b4 {
(Rbc1) 0.10/12 6} Rac8 {(a6) 0.06/10 6} 17. Bxe4 {0.14/13 4} Bxe4 {0.07/12 4}
18. Nxe4 {0.20/14 3} dxe4 {0.06/14 11} 19. Nd2 {0.17/15 4} Nd7 {0.08/13 12} 20.
Rfc1 {0.10/15 21} h6 {(g6) 0.09/12 8} 21. Rb3 {(Qb3) 0.13/14 7} a6 {0.11/12 21}
22. a4 {(Rbb1) 0.08/14 6} Qe6 {0.00/11 4} 23. Rbb1 {(Qc4) 0.08/14 5} Nb6 {
(Nf6) 0.08/12 7} 24. Qc5 {0.06/15 5} Nd5 {0.06/11 2} 25. Nc4 {0.06/14 2} Kh7 {
(Re7) 0.06/11 6} 26. Rc2 {0.08/14 9} Rcd8 {(Re7) 0.06/11 5} 27. h4 {
(Nb6) 0.00/14 10} f6 {(h5) -0.04/9 4} 28. Qa5 {(Rbb2) -0.03/13 6} Kg8 {
(Qg4) 0.00/10 7} 29. Nb6 {(Qc5) 0.05/14 3} Nc7 {0.02/11 5} 30. Qh5 {
(Qc5) 0.04/15 9} Nd5 {0.02/10 4} 31. Nxd5 {0.06/15 4} Rxd5 {0.06/11 2} 32. Qg6
{0.06/16 8} Kf8 {(Re7) 0.08/11 6} 33. Rc5 {0.12/14 6} Kg8 {(Re7) 0.08/11 4} 34.
Rxd5 {(Qg3) 0.33/15 11} cxd5 {0.12/12 2} 35. b5 {0.39/16 3} Ra8 {0.33/13 24}
36. bxa6 {0.39/16 4} Qxa6 {0.33/14 3} 37. Rb5 {0.43/16 7} Qc6 {0.33/14 5} 38.
Rc5 {(Qf5) 0.47/17 5} Qd6 {0.33/14 3} 39. Qf5 {0.47/16 2} Rd8 {0.36/13 3} 40.
a5 {0.48/16 2} Kf7 {0.36/12 1} 41. h5 {0.48/15 3} Kg8 {(Qd7) 0.42/12 3} 42. Rc8
{(Rb5) 0.48/16 3} Kf8 {(Kf7) 0.34/11 2} 43. Rc3 {(Kh1) 0.48/16 8} Rd7 {
(Kg8) 0.41/12 3} 44. Rc1 {(Rc5) 0.48/16 6} Rd8 {0.42/12 4} 45. Rc8 {
(Rb1) 0.48/17 5} Ke7 {(Kf7) 0.42/13 8} 46. Rc5 {0.48/16 2} Kf8 {0.50/13 3} 47.
Qh3 {(g3) 0.48/15 13} Kf7 {0.42/12 2} 48. Qg4 {(Rb5) 0.48/16 4} Kg8 {
(Rd7) 0.42/13 4} 49. Rc1 {(Rb5) 0.48/15 10} Kf7 {0.42/12 4} 50. Qg6+ {
(g3) 0.48/15 2} Kg8 {0.35/11 1} 51. Rc2 {(Rc3) 0.48/16 2} Qd7 {(Kf8) 0.41/12 2}
52. Qg3 {0.54/14 2} Qe8 {(Qa4) 0.50/12 2} 53. Qg4 {(Qc7) 0.54/16 4} Qf7 {
0.42/13 2} 54. Rc5 {(Qf5) 0.54/16 6} Kh7 {(Qd7) 0.49/13 3} 55. Qf5+ {0.54/15 2}
Kg8 {0.47/14 3} 56. Kh2 {(g4) 0.60/17 4} Kh8 {(Qd7) 0.47/13 2} 57. Kh3 {
(g4) 0.71/17 7} Kg8 {0.47/13 1} 58. Kg4 {(g4) 0.71/17 5} Kf8 {0.43/12 3} 59.
Rc8 {(Kf4) 0.81/16 6} Qe7 {0.42/11 1} 60. Rxd8+ {(Kh3) 0.82/16 5} Qxd8 {
0.43/14 4} 61. Qe6 {0.82/18 3} Qxa5 {0.63/16 9} 62. Qc8+ {0.82/18 4} Kf7 {
0.73/17 12} 63. Qxb7+ {0.82/18 3} Kg8 {0.88/18 17} 64. Kf5 {0.82/19 2} Kh7 {
(Qd8) 0.88/17 18} 65. Ke6 {1.03/18 4} Qd8 {1.11/17 50} 66. Qc6 {1.23/17 4} Kh8
{1.11/17 62} 67. Kf7 {1.48/16 3} Kh7 {1.11/17 42} 68. Qe8 {1.60/15 3} Qc7+ {
1.11/15 0} 69. Ke6 {1.60/16 3} Qb7 {(Qc4) 1.11/16 29} 70. g4 {(Kd6) 2.06/16 5}
Qb1 {(Qb2) 1.84/10 3} 71. Qd7 {2.55/14 4} Qb8 {(Qa2) 1.91/11 2} 72. Kxd5 {
2.69/16 4} Qh2 {2.24/11 3} 73. Qf5+ {2.97/17 6} Kh8 {2.34/12 2} 74. Qe6 {
(Qc8+) 3.12/16 5} Kh7 {(Qc7) 2.34/11 2} 75. Qxe4+ {3.29/15 3} Kg8 {
(Kh8) 2.75/11 5} 76. Qe6+ {3.74/15 2} Kh7 {2.85/11 3} 77. Kc6 {(Kc4) 4.06/14 2}
Qb8 {5.11/12 14} 78. d5 {4.26/14 2} Qa8+ {5.12/11 9} 79. Kd7 {4.46/15 4} 1-0
In testsuites and tactics there are black holes - free programs like
Grapefruit or Stockfish are maybe better in problem solving? Also one example:
[d]5k2/4p3/3p2Q1/3Pq1pP/5pP1/2P4K/8/8 w - -
After 10 minutes no solution Qf5+ there seems to be search explosion.
Jouni
One example game, where Naum gets king actively to game without fearing 3000 rated opponent:
[Event "Nunn"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.12.15"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Naum 4"]
[Black "Rybka 3 1-cpu 32-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D36"]
[Annotator "0.57;0.30"]
[PlyCount "157"]
[TimeControl "60/300:0/0:0/0"]
{Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz 2393 MHz W=16.1 ply; 425kN/s; 26 TBAs
B=13.0 ply; 18kN/s} 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 e6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. Bg5
Be7 7. Qc2 Nbd7 8. e3 O-O 9. Bd3 Re8 10. O-O Nf8 {Both last book move} 11. Ne5
{0.57/12 7} N6d7 {(Ng6) 0.30/10 18} 12. Bxe7 {0.41/14 9} Qxe7 {0.27/12 6} 13.
Nf3 {0.42/15 4} Nf6 {(Ng6) 0.23/12 15} 14. h3 {(a4) 0.38/15 16} Ne4 {
(Ng6) 0.16/12 37} 15. Rab1 {(Rac1) 0.28/12 9} Bf5 {(Ng6) 0.10/10 6} 16. b4 {
(Rbc1) 0.10/12 6} Rac8 {(a6) 0.06/10 6} 17. Bxe4 {0.14/13 4} Bxe4 {0.07/12 4}
18. Nxe4 {0.20/14 3} dxe4 {0.06/14 11} 19. Nd2 {0.17/15 4} Nd7 {0.08/13 12} 20.
Rfc1 {0.10/15 21} h6 {(g6) 0.09/12 8} 21. Rb3 {(Qb3) 0.13/14 7} a6 {0.11/12 21}
22. a4 {(Rbb1) 0.08/14 6} Qe6 {0.00/11 4} 23. Rbb1 {(Qc4) 0.08/14 5} Nb6 {
(Nf6) 0.08/12 7} 24. Qc5 {0.06/15 5} Nd5 {0.06/11 2} 25. Nc4 {0.06/14 2} Kh7 {
(Re7) 0.06/11 6} 26. Rc2 {0.08/14 9} Rcd8 {(Re7) 0.06/11 5} 27. h4 {
(Nb6) 0.00/14 10} f6 {(h5) -0.04/9 4} 28. Qa5 {(Rbb2) -0.03/13 6} Kg8 {
(Qg4) 0.00/10 7} 29. Nb6 {(Qc5) 0.05/14 3} Nc7 {0.02/11 5} 30. Qh5 {
(Qc5) 0.04/15 9} Nd5 {0.02/10 4} 31. Nxd5 {0.06/15 4} Rxd5 {0.06/11 2} 32. Qg6
{0.06/16 8} Kf8 {(Re7) 0.08/11 6} 33. Rc5 {0.12/14 6} Kg8 {(Re7) 0.08/11 4} 34.
Rxd5 {(Qg3) 0.33/15 11} cxd5 {0.12/12 2} 35. b5 {0.39/16 3} Ra8 {0.33/13 24}
36. bxa6 {0.39/16 4} Qxa6 {0.33/14 3} 37. Rb5 {0.43/16 7} Qc6 {0.33/14 5} 38.
Rc5 {(Qf5) 0.47/17 5} Qd6 {0.33/14 3} 39. Qf5 {0.47/16 2} Rd8 {0.36/13 3} 40.
a5 {0.48/16 2} Kf7 {0.36/12 1} 41. h5 {0.48/15 3} Kg8 {(Qd7) 0.42/12 3} 42. Rc8
{(Rb5) 0.48/16 3} Kf8 {(Kf7) 0.34/11 2} 43. Rc3 {(Kh1) 0.48/16 8} Rd7 {
(Kg8) 0.41/12 3} 44. Rc1 {(Rc5) 0.48/16 6} Rd8 {0.42/12 4} 45. Rc8 {
(Rb1) 0.48/17 5} Ke7 {(Kf7) 0.42/13 8} 46. Rc5 {0.48/16 2} Kf8 {0.50/13 3} 47.
Qh3 {(g3) 0.48/15 13} Kf7 {0.42/12 2} 48. Qg4 {(Rb5) 0.48/16 4} Kg8 {
(Rd7) 0.42/13 4} 49. Rc1 {(Rb5) 0.48/15 10} Kf7 {0.42/12 4} 50. Qg6+ {
(g3) 0.48/15 2} Kg8 {0.35/11 1} 51. Rc2 {(Rc3) 0.48/16 2} Qd7 {(Kf8) 0.41/12 2}
52. Qg3 {0.54/14 2} Qe8 {(Qa4) 0.50/12 2} 53. Qg4 {(Qc7) 0.54/16 4} Qf7 {
0.42/13 2} 54. Rc5 {(Qf5) 0.54/16 6} Kh7 {(Qd7) 0.49/13 3} 55. Qf5+ {0.54/15 2}
Kg8 {0.47/14 3} 56. Kh2 {(g4) 0.60/17 4} Kh8 {(Qd7) 0.47/13 2} 57. Kh3 {
(g4) 0.71/17 7} Kg8 {0.47/13 1} 58. Kg4 {(g4) 0.71/17 5} Kf8 {0.43/12 3} 59.
Rc8 {(Kf4) 0.81/16 6} Qe7 {0.42/11 1} 60. Rxd8+ {(Kh3) 0.82/16 5} Qxd8 {
0.43/14 4} 61. Qe6 {0.82/18 3} Qxa5 {0.63/16 9} 62. Qc8+ {0.82/18 4} Kf7 {
0.73/17 12} 63. Qxb7+ {0.82/18 3} Kg8 {0.88/18 17} 64. Kf5 {0.82/19 2} Kh7 {
(Qd8) 0.88/17 18} 65. Ke6 {1.03/18 4} Qd8 {1.11/17 50} 66. Qc6 {1.23/17 4} Kh8
{1.11/17 62} 67. Kf7 {1.48/16 3} Kh7 {1.11/17 42} 68. Qe8 {1.60/15 3} Qc7+ {
1.11/15 0} 69. Ke6 {1.60/16 3} Qb7 {(Qc4) 1.11/16 29} 70. g4 {(Kd6) 2.06/16 5}
Qb1 {(Qb2) 1.84/10 3} 71. Qd7 {2.55/14 4} Qb8 {(Qa2) 1.91/11 2} 72. Kxd5 {
2.69/16 4} Qh2 {2.24/11 3} 73. Qf5+ {2.97/17 6} Kh8 {2.34/12 2} 74. Qe6 {
(Qc8+) 3.12/16 5} Kh7 {(Qc7) 2.34/11 2} 75. Qxe4+ {3.29/15 3} Kg8 {
(Kh8) 2.75/11 5} 76. Qe6+ {3.74/15 2} Kh7 {2.85/11 3} 77. Kc6 {(Kc4) 4.06/14 2}
Qb8 {5.11/12 14} 78. d5 {4.26/14 2} Qa8+ {5.12/11 9} 79. Kd7 {4.46/15 4} 1-0
In testsuites and tactics there are black holes - free programs like
Grapefruit or Stockfish are maybe better in problem solving? Also one example:
[d]5k2/4p3/3p2Q1/3Pq1pP/5pP1/2P4K/8/8 w - -
After 10 minutes no solution Qf5+ there seems to be search explosion.
Jouni