CCT 11: Final Standings

[swami]

Yes excellent play by Bright and great result. Amazing how quickly some of these engines have matured. I think it is fortunate for many of the commercial engines that they did not participate, otherwise these new engines might have made them look bad. Rybka is still the one to catch and it seems that Rybka is simply on a different level.

Agreed! Rybka is simply on different level because lots of bugs are getting reported almost every day and Vas fixes many. He is working on it full time. Not to forget Larry made things better with secret strategy advice re: piece value tables.

Bright vs Fruit, and Bright vs The Baron were the most interesting games to go through.

Also, Bright vs Thinker and Bright vs Ikarus in CCT blitz event were amongst the most interesting ones.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

I am exreamly pleased that Bright has shared the 2-3 place only 1 point behind Rybka using the new private book
If The author of Bright wants to release the new CCT opening book,i don't mind a bit
It's 88 Mb unziped....
Dr.D

thanks and thank you
while the book was working quite well when bright was white, we did
have a couple of unfortunate openings when playing the black pieces.
e.g., in the game against Arasan, the first move out of book showed bright -.90 (=behind) and we felt lucky to manage a draw.

Hi Allard,
I've played a couple of thousands games with this book at bullet time control and I checked Bright's evaluation in all the games and I found only 3 games with Bright showing something around -0.70....
Can You or Swami post the opening line here so that I can get my shovel and start to dig
Dr.D

[swami]

I am exreamly pleased that Bright has shared the 2-3 place only 1 point behind Rybka using the new private book
If The author of Bright wants to release the new CCT opening book,i don't mind a bit
It's 88 Mb unziped....
Dr.D

thanks and thank you
while the book was working quite well when bright was white, we did
have a couple of unfortunate openings when playing the black pieces.
e.g., in the game against Arasan, the first move out of book showed bright -.90 (=behind) and we felt lucky to manage a draw.

Hi Allard,
I've played a couple of thousands games with this book at bullet time control and I checked Bright's evaluation in all the games and I found only 3 games with Bright showing something around -0.70....
Can You or Swami post the opening line here so that I can get my shovel and start to dig
Dr.D

Hi Wael,

I'll be creating a separate CCT report thread in few days time to highlight Bright's pros and cons, soon after other authors started posting their own.

Bright plays sicilian really well, that's the plus point. Example, refer Gaviota game. Also the game against TwistedLogic in blitz.

Since Bright is known to be a tactical genius, your choice of Sicilian variation where the kings are castled on opposite sides, and battle ensues on two fronts, is a good pick! The game against Thinker in blitz was fantastic as well.

Regarding your query, Against Arasan, the book went 20 moves deep, and ended up in unfavourable RR vs RB endings, as Allard pointed out. Also the same in the game against Diep where the book ended up in Rook endings with chances of 95% draw result.

Your test maybe valid but the issue here is not the evaluation but the depthness of the book.

Had Bright been out of the book after about 10 moves in the game against Arasan even with negative score, It would have converted the sign to positive few moves later. But 20 moves deep and no pieces left on the board other than an exchange down left Bright to play for a draw.

Deep book of 20 long moves would only help when Bright plays engines like Rybka because a lot of pieces get exchanged and Bright will be left to play for a draw.

So, short tournament book with unique short cut variation works best for Bright because this tournament has many engines which are rated few hundred elos lower than Bright. It would be better to limit the total moves to about 8 or 10 and let Bright think from there. There will be more pieces left on the board, and Bright could probably manage a win against these engines by taking them out of book early.

Cheers and we must rejoice over the engine's success in both the tournaments!

Looking forward to updates and release regards,
Swami

[Allard Siemelink]

I think this was the position after bright's (=black's) last book move:
[d]r4nk1/pp1q1ppp/2b1p3/4P3/6Q1/3P4/PP1B2PP/2KRR3 w - - 1 21

I don't think it is a lost position (bright's -.90 seems too pessimistic), but it is an exchange behind and has to fight for a draw.
The full game was:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6
6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 Be7 8. O-O-O Nxd4 9. Qxd4 O-O 10. f4 Qa5
11. Bc4 Bd7 12. e5 dxe5 13. fxe5 Bc6 14. Bd2 Nd7 15. Nd5 Qd8
16. Nxe7+ Qxe7 17. Rhe1 Rfd8 18. Qg4 Nf8 19. Bd3 Rxd3 20. cxd3 Qd7
21. Bb4 Qd5 22. Bxf8 Rxf8 23. Kb1 Qxg2 24. Qxg2 Bxg2 25. Re3 g6
26. Rc1 Bc6 27. Kc2 h5 28. Rf1 Kg7 29. Re2 Rd8 30. Ref2 Rd7
31. Kc3 Bb5 32. Rf3 Rc7+ 33. Kd2 Rd7 34. Kc3 Rc7+ 35. Kb4 Bc6
36. Rf6 Bg2 37. R1f4 Bd5 38. a4 g5 39. Rf2 g4 40. R2f4 b6
41. a5 bxa5+ 42. Kxa5 Bb3 43. Ka6 Bd5 44. b4 Rd7 45. Rf2 Bf3
46. Rd2 h4 47. b5 Be4 48. Rf4 Bf5 49. Rg2 Kg6 50. Ra4 Kg5
51. Rg1 Rd5 52. Rb4 Rd7 53. Rc4 Kh5 54. Ra4 Rd5 55. d4 Be4
56. Re1 Bf3 57. Ra3 Rxd4 58. Kxa7 Rd7+ 59. Kb6 Rd2 60. h3 Bg2
61. hxg4+ Kxg4 62. Ra4+ Kg5 63. Ra7 h3 64. Rxf7 h2 65. Rh7 Bf3
66. Rf1 Be4 67. Rg7+ Kh5 68. Rg8 Re2 69. Kc7 Rd2 70. Rc1 Kh6
71. Re1 Bd5 72. Rh8+ Kg5 73. Rc1 Kf5 74. b6 Rb2 75. Rh5+ Kg4
76. Rh7 Kf4 77. Rf1+ Kxe5 78. Rh5+ Ke4 79. Rh1 Rc2+ 80. Kd8 Rb2
81. Kc7 Rc2+ 82. Kd7 Rb2 83. Rh4+ Ke5 84. R1xh2 Rxb6 85. Re2+ Kf5
86. Rf2+ Ke5 87. Rf1 Rb7+ 88. Kc8 Ra7 89. Kd8 Kd6 90. Ke8 Ra8+
91. Kf7 e5+ 92. Kg7 Rg8+ 93. Kh7 Re8 94. Rh6+ Kc5 95. Rc1+ Bc4
96. Ra6 Kd5 97. Rd1+ Ke4 98. Ra4 Rc8 99. Rd6 Kf5 100. Ra5 Rc7+
101. Kh8 Be6 102. Raa6 Re7 103. Rdb6 e4 104. Ra1 Bf7 105. Rf1+ Ke5
106. Rb5+ Bd5 107. Re1 Rc7 108. Rh1 Rd7 109. Rhb1 e3 110. R1b3 Kf4
111. Rxe3 Kxe3 112. Rb8 Bb7 113. Re8+ Be4 114. Rb8 Bb7 115. Rf8 Be4
116. Re8 Rf7 117. Rb8 Bd5 118. Re8+ Be4 119. Kg8 Rd7 120. Rb8 Bd5+
121. Kf8 Bb7 122. Re8+ Be4 123. Rc8 Bd5 124. Re8+ Be4 125. Kg8 Rc7
126. Rb8 Bd5+ 127. Kh8 Bb7 128. Re8+ Be4 129. Rb8 Bd5 130. Re8+ Be4
131. Kg8 Rb7 132. Ra8 Bd5+ 133. Kh8 Be4 134. Ra3+ Kf4 135. Ra8 Rh7+
136. Kg8 Rd7 137. Rb8 Bd5+ 138. Kf8 Bb7 139. Re8 Be4 140. Rc8 Rd6
141. Kg8 Bd5+ 142. Kg7 Be4 143. Rf8+ Ke5 144. Re8+ Kd4 145. Kf7 Bd5+
146. Kg7

Can You or Swami post the opening line here so that I can get my shovel and start to dig
Dr.D

[Pressie]

Congrats to Vas and the Rybka team, to play the whole tournament with one draw and an operator loss demonstrates the strength of this program.

[fern]

Very good results for Arasan and Bright.
Let me say one thing about Arasan.
Dart, his author, has always impressed me by the nice and easy mood whit which he takes all the variegated fortunes of his program and his incapability to submerge himself in harsh discussions. Now he seems to be rewarded after so many years of effort with a great performance.
My most warm congrats, Jon!

Fern

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

I am exreamly pleased that Bright has shared the 2-3 place only 1 point behind Rybka using the new private book
If The author of Bright wants to release the new CCT opening book,i don't mind a bit
It's 88 Mb unziped....
Dr.D

thanks and thank you
while the book was working quite well when bright was white, we did
have a couple of unfortunate openings when playing the black pieces.
e.g., in the game against Arasan, the first move out of book showed bright -.90 (=behind) and we felt lucky to manage a draw.

Hi Allard,
I've played a couple of thousands games with this book at bullet time control and I checked Bright's evaluation in all the games and I found only 3 games with Bright showing something around -0.70....
Can You or Swami post the opening line here so that I can get my shovel and start to dig
Dr.D

Hi Wael,

I'll be creating a separate CCT report thread in few days time to highlight Bright's pros and cons, soon after other authors started posting their own.

Bright plays sicilian really well, that's the plus point. Example, refer Gaviota game. Also the game against TwistedLogic in blitz.

Since Bright is known to be a tactical genius, your choice of Sicilian variation where the kings are castled on opposite sides, and battle ensues on two fronts, is a good pick! The game against Thinker in blitz was fantastic as well.

Regarding your query, Against Arasan, the book went 20 moves deep, and ended up in unfavourable RR vs RB endings, as Allard pointed out. Also the same in the game against Diep where the book ended up in Rook endings with chances of 95% draw result.

Your test maybe valid but the issue here is not the evaluation but the depthness of the book.

Had Bright been out of the book after about 10 moves in the game against Arasan even with negative score, It would have converted the sign to positive few moves later. But 20 moves deep and no pieces left on the board other than an exchange down left Bright to play for a draw.

Deep book of 20 long moves would only help when Bright plays engines like Rybka because a lot of pieces get exchanged and Bright will be left to play for a draw.

So, short tournament book with unique short cut variation works best for Bright because this tournament has many engines which are rated few hundred elos lower than Bright. It would be better to limit the total moves to about 8 or 10 and let Bright think from there. There will be more pieces left on the board, and Bright could probably manage a win against these engines by taking them out of book early.

Cheers and we must rejoice over the engine's success in both the tournaments!

Looking forward to updates and release regards,
Swami

Thanks Swami for the detailed post
The two sides of the story are to be taken under consideration....limiting the opening book to 10 moves will also harm Bright against engines with well prepared,long termed opening books,so for now I'll leave that way....
Dr.D

[swami]

Thanks Swami for the detailed post
The two sides of the story are to be taken under consideration....limiting the opening book to 10 moves will also harm Bright against engines with well prepared,long termed opening books,so for now I'll leave that way....
Dr.D

Hi Wael,

It might give Bright a time disadvantage when facing engines with long books but if the engines in question are 200 to 300 elo lower than Bright, then it might not affect much, infact one could say Bright will take the lead by taking them out of book earlier with a shuffling move, and then marching forward with more pieces and finally winning the game in style. Operating keyword here is the need to have more pieces.

You know, one thing unique about Bright is that it shuffles pieces more than is needed and makes itself extra defensive. I and Allard noticed that in the game against Sjeng

[jdart]

Thanks for the nice words. Arasan got a little lucky (like having Scorpio lose on time in round 2) but it has also improved in the past few months. I'm in the process of releasing Arasan 11.3, the version that played in the tourney.

And thanks to Peter for organizing the event.

--Jon