Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

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gordonr
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Re: Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

Post by gordonr »

Edmund wrote: lots of useful information on
http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/tablebases-online/
Yes, I'm using http://tablebase.sesse.net/ which is referenced from your link.

I've needed to repeat the download of a small number of files that were corrupted during the download, so it's worth checking this.
Mark Mason
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Re: Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

Post by Mark Mason »

Gordon,

You may find this discussion about which are the most common/useful 6man EGTBs of interest:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... an%20EGTBs

Mark
gordonr
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Re: Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

Post by gordonr »

Mark Mason wrote:You may find this discussion about which are the most common/useful 6man EGTBs of interest
Thanks - interesting reading indeed. I will compare my priority list for downloading with those mentioned.
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beachknight
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Re: Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

Post by beachknight »

1581: 8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0
8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz 11:

1.a7 Ng4 2.a8Q Nf6 3.Qf3+ Kg6 4.Bc3 Ne8 5.Qg4+ Kh6 6.Qg8
+- (17.10) Depth: 14/23 00:00:01 2744kN, tb=3343
1.a7 Kg6 2.a8Q
+- (#19) Depth: 15/25 00:00:01 3560kN, tb=5385
1.a7 Kg6 2.a8Q
+- (#19) Depth: 15/25 00:00:01 3560kN, tb=5386

(, chessengines20 11.08.2009)

Only full set of 3,4,5 piece tbs available.
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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beachknight
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Re: Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

Post by beachknight »

1581: 8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0
8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Hiarcs 12:

1.a7
+- (#30) Depth: 13/31 00:00:01 2138kN, tb=3627
1.a7 Nf7 2.a8Q
+- (#15) Depth: 13/31 00:00:02 6084kN, tb=13159
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bd2+ Nxd2
+- (#15) Depth: 14/31 00:00:05 13550kN, tb=29641
1.a7 Nc4 2.a8Q
+- (#14) Depth: 15/31 00:00:09 23756kN, tb=56962
1.a7 Nc4 2.a8Q Ke5 3.Bc3+ Kd6 4.Qd8+ Kc6 5.Qf6+ Kb5 6.a4+ Kc5 7.Qd4+ Kc6 8.Qxc4+
+- (#13) Depth: 16/31 00:00:13 33187kN, tb=92576
1.a7 Nc4 2.a8Q Ke5 3.Bc3+ Kd6 4.Qd8+ Kc6 5.Qf6+ Kb5 6.a4+ Kc5 7.Qd4+ Kc6 8.Qxc4+
+- (#13) Depth: 17/31 00:00:16 40958kN, tb=121455
1.a7 Nc4 2.a8Q Ke5 3.Bc3+ Kd6 4.Qd8+ Kc6 5.Qf6+ Kb5 6.a4+ Kc5 7.Qd4+ Kc6 8.Qxc4+
+- (#13) Depth: 18/31 00:00:22 58193kN, tb=181602

(, chessengines20 11.08.2009)

ditto
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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beachknight
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Re: Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

Post by beachknight »

1581: 8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0
8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Naum 4:

1.a7 Ng4 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Bb6+ Kf4 5.Qa4+ Ke5 6.Qxg4 Kd5 7.Ba5 Kc5 8.Qd7
+- (#31) Depth: 15/26 00:00:04 7051kN, tb=112240
1.a7 Ng4 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Bb6+ Kf4 5.Qa4+ Kf5 6.Qxg4+ Ke5 7.Ba5 Kf6 8.Bc3+ Ke7
+- (#25) Depth: 16/30 00:00:05 8368kN, tb=155378
1.a7 Nc4 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Qd5 Na3 4.Qd6+ Kf5 5.Qxa3 Ke4 6.Qd6 Kf3 7.Qd3+ Kf4 8.Bc3 Kg4 9.Qf3+
+- (#22) Depth: 17/32 00:00:06 12317kN, tb=284848
1.a7 Nd7 2.a8Q Nf6 3.Qc6 Nh5 4.Qd5+ Kg6 5.Qxh5+ Kxh5
+- (#18) Depth: 18/32 00:00:10 22570kN, tb=618052
1.a7 Nf7 2.a8Q Kf6 3.Qc6+ Kf5 4.Qd7+ Kf6 5.Bc3+ Kg6 6.Qe6+ Kh5 7.Bd2 Ng5 8.Bxg5 Kxg5
+- (#16) Depth: 19/32 00:00:13 32161kN, tb=1013359
1.a7 Nd7 2.a8Q Nf6 3.Qc8+ Kf4 4.Bd2+ Ke5 5.Bc3+ Kf4 6.Bxf6 Ke4 7.Qg4+ Kd5 8.Bc3 Kd6 9.Qe4 Kc7 10.Qd5 Kb6
+- (#15) Depth: 20/31 00:00:18 43857kN, tb=1511610
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bd2+ Nxd2
+- (#15) Depth: 21/31 00:00:22 55879kN, tb=2043823
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Qc8+ Kg6 4.Bd2 Nf7 5.Qe6+ Kg7 6.a4 Kf8 7.Bh6+ Nxh6
+- (#14) Depth: 22/34 00:00:26 66959kN, tb=2510347
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Bd8 Nh7 4.Qd5+ Kg6 5.Qe4+ Kf7 6.Qxh7+ Ke6 7.Qe4+ Kd6 8.Qf5 Kc6 9.Qe6+ Kb7 10.Qd7+ Ka6 11.Qc6+ Ka7 12.Bb6+
+- (#14) Depth: 23/27 00:00:29 75246kN, tb=2888092
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Bd8 Nh7 4.Qd5+ Kg6 5.Qe4+ Kf7 6.Qxh7+ Ke6 7.Qe4+ Kd6 8.Qf5 Kc6 9.Qe6+ Kb7 10.Qd7+ Ka6 11.Qc6+ Ka7 12.Bb6+ Kb8
+- (#14) Depth: 24/25 00:00:32 80852kN, tb=3183480
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Bd8 Nh7 4.Qd5+ Kg6 5.Qe4+ Kf7 6.Qxh7+ Ke6 7.Qe4+ Kd6 8.Qf5 Kc6 9.Qe6+ Kb7 10.Qd7+ Ka6 11.Qc6+ Ka7 12.Bb6+ Kb8 13.Qc7+
+- (#14) Depth: 25/25 00:00:35 90665kN, tb=3676452

(, chessengines20 11.08.2009)

ditto.
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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beachknight
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Re: Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

Post by beachknight »

1581: 8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0
8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 3:

1.a7
+- (11.84) Depth: 8 00:00:01 1003kN
1.a7
+- (14.23) Depth: 9 00:00:05 3040kN, tb=3
1.a7
+- (14.23) Depth: 10 00:00:07 3979kN, tb=18
1.a7
+- (14.95) Depth: 11 00:01:21 52263kN, tb=107

(, chessengines20 11.08.2009)

ditto.
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
bob
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Re: Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

Post by bob »

gordonr wrote:I'm currently downloading a partial set of 6 man TBs. I will have at most 0.5 Terabyte of space to use, so can't download the full set.

However, maybe I'm underestimating the need for all derivatives before downloading those containing pawns?! For example:

[d]8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0 1

Here, I've downloaded BPPvsN but I noticed that this caused issues while analysing with Zappa. So I then downloaded QBPvN but I still see issues (Zappa doesn't play a7 and allows a draw).

Rybka handles this ok. I realise that some engines have minimum search prior to using TBs. This defaults to 4 for Zappa. Why is Zappa avoiding a7? The best line stays within my downloaded TBs.

I also plan to start checksumming my downloads for corrupt files, etc. Not yet done.

thanks
Gordon
This is a known problem, has been discussed several times in the past, and some programs do not have the problem (Crafty is an example). The problem is that if you have a pawn on the 7th, and you don't have the promotion EGTBs handy, then if your program can not see a forced mate after promotion, and does see a forced mate (due to EGTB hits) with the pawn sitting on the 7th, it will simply fail to promote.

The solution is to do a search when you reach a position at the root where egtbs say "mate in N" and there is a promotion possible, But you turn off EGTBs for that case so that the pawn on the 7th is no longer a mate in N...
bob
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Re: Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

Post by bob »

That's a trivial case, you see the promotion in your search (without an instant EGTB mate score) but then see a capture that takes you to the 3-piece tables also.

That's easy.

The hard case is where you promote and there is no quick capture to take you to the n-1 piece tables. Then you have a problem.