Robbolito 0.09 New Edition VS Rybka 3

[Graham Banks]

You are running for mod?
Steve

I hadn't intended to, but if I do, it would under the policy that no links to the clone will be allowed and its name will be edited out (including in all existing posts).
Then once the other forum disappears, it will be hard for the cloners to get much publicity.

Cheers,
Graham.

[Steve B]

You are running for mod?
Steve

I hadn't intended to, but if I do, no links to the clone will be allowed and its name will be edited out (including in all existing posts).
Then once the other forum disappears, it will be hard for the cloners to get much publicity.

Cheers,
Graham.

a clear statement
good
lets see how well you do in the election
Good Luck
Steve

[Graham Banks]

You are running for mod?
Steve

I hadn't intended to, but if I do, no links to the clone will be allowed and its name will be edited out (including in all existing posts).
Then once the other forum disappears, it will be hard for the cloners to get much publicity.

Cheers,
Graham.

a clear statement
good
lets see how well you do in the election
Good Luck
Steve

I wouldn't expect to do well, considering the glut of new members who signed up to promote the clone here (with immunity) immediately upon its release. Once the rot gets established, it's hard to get rid of sometimes.

[kingliveson]

we are the only forum on the net with elected mods
we are not appointed by the owners

True, but the charter allows you to do something against legally questionable posts.
If you respect what Larry has to say (amongst others), then at present the mods are allowing links to the clone of a commercial engine. That is surely legally questionable.

sorry i dsagree
i felt that way at first but after two long months when no verifable evidence came forward i changed my opinion
Rybka team members all towing the company line dont consitute verifable evidnce
a few code snippets that the Rybka team had no problem providing for the Strelka debate would be a great start
actually i think the allowing of links might serve a useful purpose regarding the debate
perhaps it will encourage those claiming the engines are clones to come forward and show the proof and put an end to this
there are very repectable members here who would quickly change their opinoins if something concrete would just come forward


The CCC is a neutral "watch dog" site ..
smoke filled back rooms where people wisper to each other that this or that engine is or is not a clone is just not going to hack it here Graham

Steve

Then it is sad that amongst the good things you've done, the allowing of links to the clone of a commercial engine will be the legacy of the current mod team.

or the current mod team will be credited for standing up for the scientific method ..where evidence is offered in support of a claim
i think we did the right thing
History will tell
Steve

The current mod team did what it could only have done given the circumstances. You want to set a precedence that you cannot just go leveling accusations and when prompted for proof, you refuse. This is common sense. Some have said because these authors don't reveal their identities, that means something is mischievous. I beg to differ. The authors of truecrypt, the best encrypting software which is open-source, use pseudonyms and hide their identities.

Further more, the domain where the program in question is currently being hosted is registered in the United States. If you have a pinch of evidence, that website will be shutdown yesterday. This whole thing smells so bad from the get go--I mean, who accuses or hints of wrongdoing and refuses to name the culprit(s) or provide evidence? I have never come across such a thing. As I have stated before, if evidence come out that there is wrongdoing, I will be on the right side.

[Steve B]

You are running for mod?
Steve

I hadn't intended to, but if I do, no links to the clone will be allowed and its name will be edited out (including in all existing posts).
Then once the other forum disappears, it will be hard for the cloners to get much publicity.

Cheers,
Graham.

a clear statement
good
lets see how well you do in the election
Good Luck
Steve

I wouldn't expect to do well, considering the glut of new members who signed up to promote the clone here (with immunity) immediately upon its release. Once the rot gets established, it's hard to get rid of sometimes.

Actually only those that are registered members here for three months are allowed to vote
the actual vote will take place on January 15
the first post regarding this controversy was in the middle of Oct.
anyone signing up after October 16 will not be allowed to vote
so if you do lose(and i am not saying you would lose) that wont be the reason
Steve

[Rolf]

The reason why the actual moderation is wrong and you with your truecrypt example is this:

in computerchess we have a sport with a competition and hence it's impossible to tolerate anonymity. I bet 1 million bucks that this cannot be falsified. The rest is drama and propaganda. And falsehood. Because those who support illegal practices they fought against Free Speech of those like me who criticised the Robomania. With masses of complaints so that the mods begged me to NOT anymore enter these topics at all.

I still think that the mods here did a fantastic job. Because what can they do if rots are hunting othe people? Can they change Mother Nature to the better? Almost not.

So having NOT totally exterminated my account is the star that shines above all the little wrestle incidents. If I could I would install all three of them again. They have different opinions but they are mature and not depending on riots from the streets.

[sockmonkey]

What if... the authors of Ippolit/Robbolito/Iggorit have no interest in competing? If, for whatever reasons, they want to ruin Rybka's #1 status, maybe just because it's a challenge, that's actually their business, not yours. "Propoganda", "drama", "falsehood", "illegal"? Do you read what you write? The moment that there's even ONE piece of actual evidence (not Graham's gut feelings, Vas's business-motivated claims or your I'm-not-really-sure-what-to-call-it) that I/R/I is stolen code, I'll recant, delete and so on. All else is rationalization (on all sides). Prove it or live with it, please. Frohes neues.

Jeremy

The reason why the actual moderation is wrong and you with your truecrypt example is this:

in computerchess we have a sport with a competition and hence it's impossible to tolerate anonymity. I bet 1 million bucks that this cannot be falsified. The rest is drama and propaganda. And falsehood. Because those who support illegal practices they fought against Free Speech of those like me who criticised the Robomania. With masses of complaints so that the mods begged me to NOT anymore enter these topics at all.

I still think that the mods here did a fantastic job. Because what can they do if rots are hunting othe people? Can they change Mother Nature to the better? Almost not.

So having NOT totally exterminated my account is the star that shines above all the little wrestle incidents. If I could I would install all three of them again. They have different opinions but they are mature and not depending on riots from the streets.

[kingliveson]

That Analogy does not hold my friend. The truth is I don't want to start getting into discussion with you because you to tend argue around y=b+rsint. If some gives you two reasons why 10+10=4 and not 20, you will continue to argue that it is 20. You already did this once with me. Not only that, we had a communication via pm, then you went and distorted purposely what I told you in another forum. You also continue to bash well respected people here in other forums. The bottom line remains, and this is common sense which a two year old child knows; you can't accuse someone and refuse to provide proof.

[Rolf]

a few code snippets that the Rybka team had no problem providing for the Strelka debate would be a great start
actually i think the allowing of links might serve a useful purpose regarding the debate
perhaps it will encourage those claiming the engines are clones to come forward and show the proof and put an end to this
there are very respectable members here who would quickly change their opinions if something concrete would just come forward

Ok, Steve, I would never accuse you of having a dishonest position. What you seem to not quite get in its meaning that is that the whole construction of the crime as I call it, was intended to force Vas to show up some code. But they have learned from the past when they lost it with the Strelka stuff. Dont you realuse that therefore Graham's argument vs anonymity is so important? The reason is simply that this sort of crime afforded a super top class of designers. Certainly NOT kids. They changed the entity so that from outside it's exactly NOT provable the crime but the victim, here Vas, tomorrow perhaps Amir Ban, should be forced to open his code to prove he was violated? This in a sport??? Dont you get it?

Steve, of course the anonymity argument in itself doesnt prove anything either. But it marks the point. If everything _were_ kosher, then they must not hide. Ok even then because in my eyes very famous people lose their status also with legal campaigns, just because it reveils hatred. Hate isnt illegal. But it stinks.

[K I Hyams]

Even if you believed these well respected people (add in Don Dailey plus a few other programmers) who've stated that Robbo has come from Rybka code, would you still be supporting it or using it?

You appear to suffer from an affliction that could be most charitably described as inconsistent expectation syndrome. Your phrase "well respected" implies that you think thst other people should believe Don Dailey when he says that Robbolito is a clone of Rybka yet, at the same time, you refuse to believe Professor Hyatt and Zach when they say that Rybka 1 is a clone of Fruit.Tell me Graham, isn't Professor Hyatt "well respected"? When your brother invited Hyatt to put his neck on the line and state explicitly that Rajlich was a liar, Hyatt obliged. What has he done that has caused you to lose respect in his integrity and professionalism?

I noticed that in another of your posts, which I quote below, you are also calling Vas Rajlich a liar. It is not only your expectations that are inconsistent, it is also your behaviour. Do you have evidence to back up your claim that Rajlich is a liar?

It's not the Rybka that we all know, but it is Rybka. It is not Rybka 3, despite what Vas said.

Neither you nor Rolf has the wherewithal to defend Vas. As a consequence your inconsistent and inappropriate comments do him immeasurable damage. With “friends” like you, he doesn’t need enemies.