Carlsen or Nepomniachtchi – Who will win?

[mclane]

How much price money between this and bobby fischer fights ?!

[Eduard]

I don't know exactly, but I think Fischer got $ 200,000 against Spassky (24 games) in the first match 1972. The price money for these 14 games in Dubai is 2 million euros.

[Eduard]

If you can't criticize the level, should you applaud? In Game 1, White first tests the move h3. With the help of a computer, Black finds an interesting old move (but nothing gigantic). In game 3 a4 is tested. Is there perhaps the old-fashioned c3 in game 5? Today you have a computer help with the preparation, and yet I have the feeling that in the past the world champions played more creatively! You played more games and made less money. Do you really have to be satisfied as a spectator today when the stars bring accident-free moves (and not even that) onto the board for a lot of money?

[Cornfed]

If you can't criticize the level, should you applaud? In Game 1, White first tests the move h3. With the help of a computer, Black finds an interesting old move (but nothing gigantic). In game 3 a4 is tested. Is there perhaps the old-fashioned c3 in game 5? Today you have a computer help with the preparation, and yet I have the feeling that in the past the world champions played more creatively! You played more games and made less money. Do you really have to be satisfied as a spectator today when the stars bring accident-free moves (and not even that) onto the board for a lot of money?

I think that argument is basically 'much ado about nothing'.
The first two games were fascinating struggles with imbalances. The third being less so is nothing special.

The $$ per game angle is 'what it is'. Things change and more of the game is 'book'. Then again, I wonder what the difference in the average length of games between Wch matches in the 50's or 60's compared to today.

The satisfaction level: I am perfectly satisfied with the action of the first 2.

In some respects 'the old masters' played more creatively...for all the obvious reasons. Then again, in other respects there play was less creative. One could find evidence for each.

[Eduard]

There used to be better fighting. There were many abandoned games that were played on the following day. I mean to say that the will to win used to be greater. If you are satisfied, fine. I am not. Neither player bids anything for the prize money. It will be difficult to find stupid sponsors in the future.

[Cornfed]

There used to be better fighting. There were many abandoned games that were played on the following day. I mean to say that the will to win used to be greater. If you are satisfied, fine. I am not. Neither player bids anything for the prize money. It will be difficult to find stupid sponsors in the future.

You were not satisfied with games 1 and 2? Those were fine tussles with Magnus (particularly) seeking imbalances.

There are ways to measure the quality of the games from these two opponents vs other Wch matches of the past. Perhaps someone will.

Knowledge has expanded obviously, and I am not just talking about openings. The individual players we see playing in this match are more tactically adept, have a better positional understanding, better endgame skills, defend SO much better...just better all the way around frankly compared to Wch matches of the past. And...they don't have seconds who can burn the midnight oil on those adjournments (mostly endgames) while the players get a good nights sleep.

I think the 'better fighting' you are referring to is primarily related to my last point - they players were not as good as they are today. That's not a 'shot' at them; but it is one of the reasons I like watching tourneys between top females is precisely because they are not as good as the top males...and you see more mistakes of varying degrees and thus, by this yardstick, "better fighting" chess.

[Eduard]

Maybe I am too spoiled? The fact is that engines will win against every world champion with only 5 minutes, even if the WCh gets 3 hours to think. Our Blitz games on the server are two categories better.

For Game 2: Badly played by both sides, that's a fact! If the resulting position on move 20 is too complicated for a WCh, then I no longer watch such human games.

[Cornfed]

Maybe I am too spoiled? The fact is that engines will win against every world champion with only 5 minutes, even if the WCh gets 3 hours to think. Our Blitz games on the server are two categories better.

For Game 2: Badly played by both sides, that's a fact! If the resulting position on move 20 is too complicated for a WCh, then I no longer watch such human games.

An artist at the board found himself in a situation where he chose to give up a rook and bishop - neither of which had moved, for two minor pieces which had spent 6 moves just getting to 18...Nac5 and were the most powerfully placed pieces in Blacks army…and gets a ‘forever knight’ in on d6 and the better light squared bishop to boot…and you find some, I guess, ‘computer eval’ fault with this decision?

Spoiled may not be the right word, but yes, perhaps you should go back to your engines, that’s clearly where your heart is. Carlsen uses his brain to engage in alchemy at the board, while you push around engines.

Actually, you seem to be criticizing the very kind of play you would champion from matches of yesteryear.

[dkappe]

Maybe I am too spoiled? The fact is that engines will win against every world champion with only 5 minutes, even if the WCh gets 3 hours to think. Our Blitz games on the server are two categories better.

For Game 2: Badly played by both sides, that's a fact! If the resulting position on move 20 is too complicated for a WCh, then I no longer watch such human games.

An artist at the board found himself in a situation where he chose to give up a rook and bishop - neither of which had moved, for two minor pieces which had spent 6 moves just getting to 18...Nac5 and were the most powerfully placed pieces in Blacks army…and gets a ‘forever knight’ in on d6 and the better light squared bishop to boot…and you find some, I guess, ‘computer eval’ fault with this decision?

Spoiled may not be the right word, but yes, perhaps you should go back to your engines, that’s clearly where your heart is. Carlsen uses his brain to engage in alchemy at the board, while you push around engines.

Actually, you seem to be criticizing the very kind of play you would champion from matches of yesteryear.

I like the official analysis with Anand. Not an engine in sight. I learn more plus anti thematic and obscure engine lines don’t spoil things. You don’t spell check while you write; there’s enough time after the game to analyze things.

[AdminX]

I like the official analysis with Anand. Not an engine in sight. I learn more plus anti thematic and obscure engine lines don’t spoil things. You don’t spell check while you write; there’s enough time after the game to analyze things.

Yes, I've been enjoying his analysis as well. He spots key features and tactics quickly, it's amazing how much he sees in a short amount of time.