M ANSARI wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:14 pm
Yeah ... the post game analysis after the Mamydyraov game and especially after the Firouzja game was really hard to watch without your eyebrows automatically going full up. I still think that in the data there must be a certain tell tale sign that something is amiss ... no matter how well you understand cheating algorithims and try to obfuscate play by using suboptimal moves that continue to pose problems for your opponent. If you look at the top super GM's and have an engine running ... it is incredible the amount of blunders they make but that somehow the other side doesn't see. The number of these blunders per say 1000 games and other such data over a large set of games must have a tell tale sign that shows that statistically someone has a cheating profile. However even that would not be enough to definetively say someone cheated ... just that there is a high probability he cheated.
So it seems to me the best way to deal with this is to avoid cheaters or anyone who has cheated before to enter a chess tournament. I know some of you think that online cheating is not the same thing ... but I absolutely disagree with that as many of the invites to tournaments are based on how well someone does in online tournaments. So by cheating online and doing well ... you get chosen over someone who is better but didn't do as well because he did not cheat!!! Also after corona, online tournaments have really become much more relevant ... so can't be disregarded. Maybe a cooling off period of say 5 years being clean before you can enter a prestigious tournament. Also the anti cheating protocols should be challenged and improved whenever possible. No player should have to even think there is a tiny possibility his opponent is cheating as that totally changes the way they play chess. I am surprised at how many people on this forum seem to think that online cheating is not a big deal and that somehow it is morally acceptable while OTB cheating is not ??!!??
All that is pure B.S. the only reason why Carlsen accused GM Hans of cheating is because he was upset that the person who broke his 53 winning games streak was a low GM and NOT a super GM like Firouzja or GM Ding Liren etc... Also the record of breaking the 2900 is getting harder and harder for Carlsen as he keep loosing to low rated GMs like Hans and GM Pragg
The topic is interesting as it relates to cheat detection. I would call it confessions of an online chess cheater.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Ted Summers
So after analyzing 300-400 games, his conclusion is that there is no cheating.
And yet some are willing to look at 1 game (vs Carlsen) and shout 'cheating!'. The 'unlikely' always seems to manifest itself in small sample sizes.
It is normal to see Carlsen winning, but if he lose to a lower rated player, the World will support his childish accusation behavior. I just hope Carlsen lose again versus GM Pragg or GM Han Tomorrow. I love to see the unexpected
So after analyzing 300-400 games, his conclusion is that there is no cheating.
And yet some are willing to look at 1 game (vs Carlsen) and shout 'cheating!'. The 'unlikely' always seems to manifest itself in small sample sizes.
It is normal to see Carlsen winning, but if he lose to a lower rated player, the World will support his childish accusation behavior. I just hope Carlsen lose again versus GM Pragg or GM Han Tomorrow, I also Forgot another great young talented indian player Arjun that can as well surprise Carsen. I love to see the unexpected https://chessbase.in/news/Meltwater-Cha ... up-preview
So after analyzing 300-400 games, his conclusion is that there is no cheating.
And yet some are willing to look at 1 game (vs Carlsen) and shout 'cheating!'. The 'unlikely' always seems to manifest itself in small sample sizes.
It is normal to see Carlsen winning, but if he lose to a lower rated player, the World will support his childish accusation behavior. I just hope Carlsen lose again versus GM Pragg or GM Han Tomorrow. I love to see the unexpected
It is beyond diotic to push the idea that Carlsen was just being "childish". Give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he had good reason ot pull out of the competition. It is not like Carlsen has never lost before ... he has and although I am sure he was not happy about losing he never left a tournament before, even with bad losses at the beginning of the tournament and even when he was very ill. He knows more about chess than you give him credit and he probably has a lot more information than any of us do. Most likely Chess.com gave his some additional data that made him really feel that "fair play" was compromised.
With regards to the Hiarcs engine playing without detection ... that is very interesting and more importantly very worrying. This is exactly the type of "White Hat" tries to circumvent anti cheating protocols that I would encourage. Obviously it shouldn't be done without controls ... but it makes sense to try something like that to test the protocols. Remember this is not someone trying to become the next MC (that would be obvious) ... it is someone who just want 100 or 200 ELO more.
So after analyzing 300-400 games, his conclusion is that there is no cheating.
And yet some are willing to look at 1 game (vs Carlsen) and shout 'cheating!'. The 'unlikely' always seems to manifest itself in small sample sizes.
It is normal to see Carlsen winning, but if he lose to a lower rated player, the World will support his childish accusation behavior. I just hope Carlsen lose again versus GM Pragg or GM Han Tomorrow. I love to see the unexpected
It is beyond diotic to push the idea that Carlsen was just being "childish". Give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he had good reason ot pull out of the competition. It is not like Carlsen has never lost before ... he has and although I am sure he was not happy about losing he never left a tournament before, even with bad losses at the beginning of the tournament and even when he was very ill. He knows more about chess than you give him credit and he probably has a lot more information than any of us do. Most likely Chess.com gave his some additional data that made him really feel that "fair play" was compromised.
With regards to the Hiarcs engine playing without detection ... that is very interesting and more importantly very worrying. This is exactly the type of "White Hat" tries to circumvent anti cheating protocols that I would encourage. Obviously it shouldn't be done without controls ... but it makes sense to try something like that to test the protocols. Remember this is not someone trying to become the next MC (that would be obvious) ... it is someone who just want 100 or 200 ELO more.
So after analyzing 300-400 games, his conclusion is that there is no cheating.
When he lose tomorrow to either GM Pragg, GM Arjun, or to the same victim of accusation GM Hans, I wonder with what he will come up to quit, probably I had a deam to someday reach and break the 2900 rating and these talented Younster are taking my dream away
There is a lot of evidence that Hans cheated before ... including his own admission. The argument is not "IF" Hans cheated before but rather how much he cheated before and if it included OTB cheating. I think it is very interesting that AdminX posted a link that showed an admitted cheater that managed to circumvent cheating protocols for years without getting flagged once even though there were several complaints. So it does seem that if you know what you are doing, you can obfuscate your cheating. This is especially true if you are already quite strong and only need 200 ELo extra to push you to the next level which is dramatically more lucrative. It does make me wonder whether there are many more "smart" cheaters that have not been caught yet by today's anti cheating protocols.
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:12 am
There is a lot of evidence that Hans cheated before ... including his own admission. The argument is not "IF" Hans cheated before but rather how much he cheated before and if it included OTB cheating. I think it is very interesting that AdminX posted a link that showed an admitted cheater that managed to circumvent cheating protocols for years without getting flagged once even though there were several complaints. So it does seem that if you know what you are doing, you can obfuscate your cheating. This is especially true if you are already quite strong and only need 200 ELo extra to push you to the next level which is dramatically more lucrative. It does make me wonder whether there are many more "smart" cheaters that have not been caught yet by today's anti cheating protocols.
Can you show us the evidence that GM Hans cheated over the board ? How did he do it, show us evidence
Note: watch how this online event will unfold tomorrow to be the first to notice that Carlsen is NOT what he used to be , and another bad thing is that once you become the World champion all the other want to be Champs study his games with Stockfish up to the ending, so Carlsen games has been more analyzed than anybody else with the best engines, therefore, I am not surprised that lower rated players like GM Hans knows the inside out of every game that Carlsen had played before
So after analyzing 300-400 games, his conclusion is that there is no cheating.
And yet some are willing to look at 1 game (vs Carlsen) and shout 'cheating!'. The 'unlikely' always seems to manifest itself in small sample sizes.
It is normal to see Carlsen winning, but if he lose to a lower rated player, the World will support his childish accusation behavior. I just hope Carlsen lose again versus GM Pragg or GM Han Tomorrow. I love to see the unexpected
It is beyond diotic to push the idea that Carlsen was just being "childish". Give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he had good reason ot pull out of the competition. It is not like Carlsen has never lost before ... he has and although I am sure he was not happy about losing he never left a tournament before, even with bad losses at the beginning of the tournament and even when he was very ill. He knows more about chess than you give him credit and he probably has a lot more information than any of us do. Most likely Chess.com gave his some additional data that made him really feel that "fair play" was compromised.
With regards to the Hiarcs engine playing without detection ... that is very interesting and more importantly very worrying. This is exactly the type of "White Hat" tries to circumvent anti cheating protocols that I would encourage. Obviously it shouldn't be done without controls ... but it makes sense to try something like that to test the protocols. Remember this is not someone trying to become the next MC (that would be obvious) ... it is someone who just want 100 or 200 ELO more.
Carlsen may have a good reason to believe the opponent cheated but
he had no good reason to leave the tournament.
Even if you are 100% sure that your opponent cheated and cannot prove it then it is not a good reason to leave the competition from my point of view.
It is not fair for the other players who were not cheating and wanted to play against Carlsen.
