M ANSARI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:57 am
With regards to the WCC, Carlsen did not withdraw from the tournament, he simply stated that he would not defend his WCC title ... huge difference. I think he just got tired of all the stuff that has to happen and the severe opening preparation you need to do before a WCC championship. It is probably hard to motivate yourself over and over again and suffer the months stuck in daily preparation before such an event ... with all the hoopla that comes with it. Withdrawing from the last tournament was completely different and I think very few people know the full details of why he did that.
As for the Meltwater tournament ... by far the biggest standout was Ivanchuck! What a genius !!! Although he had a one move blunder in time trouble in a totally winning position against Pragg... he outplayed and crushed them all His incredible ability to recount move by move with full coherent analysis without having a board around is really amazing. Compare his post game analysis to what Hans had to offer. No ... "the chess speaks for itself" ... or "no analysis needed here" ... just blow by blow recap of how his brain was churning out the position. Really a treat to watch!
Here is a previous analysis from him
You also have to give credit to young talented chess genius GM Praggnanandhaa he started Meltwater Champions Chess Tour Julius Baer Generation Cup with a win over former World Rapid champion, Vasyl Ivanchuk. Then he beat FIDE World Cup 2021 Jan-Krzysztof Duda in hard-fought prolonged battle.
Ummm did you watch the game against Ivanchuck? He was totally busted until the time scramble ... obviously these young kids are very good at mouse scrambles and Ivanchuck is not. GM Pragg is an amazing talent no doubt about it, but he was totally outplayed by Ivanchuck and he was the first to admit it.
But what about the game versus DUDA GM Pragg totally outplayed him. ==> Anyway, here is the reason why they invited GM Hans in case you were wondering ==>
Lets watch How Carlsen demolish some of his opponents, but he will be surprised by at least one Young talented player
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:15 pm
Of course this is only the first day, but Ivanchuck is probably one of the strongest GM's to never win a WCC. The way he totally outplayed all these new Young Guns that are much more computer aware and database aware is really incredible. He has often made Kasparov, Kramnik and even Carlsen ... look ordinary. But what really is relevant in this thread is his ability to go through different lines of thought that he went through during the game, with incredible clarity. Point out variation after variation ... why that variation seemed good, and why he discarded it and what he chose instead. That is how a 2700+ GM thinks! When Hans won his game against MC and after MC withdrew ... I really thought MC was being salty and was pissed off he lost to someone not known. But then the stuff surfaced about his online cheating ... that was not good ... so I paid attention to his next game against Firouzja. In the post game analysis I was expecting some interesting insights into what could possibly be a top 3 super GM. Instead the analysis was by some 2400 IM who had no clue what was going on and somehow "stumbled" on good moves due to "amazing intuition". Statements like "I don't have to give variations here" (in an absolutely explosive tactical melee) and "in what universe is this not totally winning" (in a position where GM Nakamura thought was totally lost after 10 seconds thought and -4 on engine) ... "half the board is completely cutoff" (when Firouzja had setup some violent counterplay) .... Yeah right !!!! It is possible that Hans has some weird personality disorder that can explain that and if so then I take back everything ... but OMG that was just so hard to take in!
You keep saying this, but.
In order to distinguish between a 2400 IM and a 2700 GM from some post game commenting requires chess knowledge and experience of a 2700 plus player. What is your rating?
The question is if it is correct.
I believe that different players may have their chess playing strength for different reasons.
One may be relatively strong in calculation and another player may be relatively strong in evaluation of the position.
The question is if chess players can get a good estimate of playing strength of a commentator only based on post game commenting of him.
I am even not sure that chess players with rating X can know based on post game commenting if the commentator is with rating X or with rating X-300.
It may be hard to check it for X=2700 but easier to check it for lower values of X.
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:15 pm
Of course this is only the first day, but Ivanchuck is probably one of the strongest GM's to never win a WCC. The way he totally outplayed all these new Young Guns that are much more computer aware and database aware is really incredible. He has often made Kasparov, Kramnik and even Carlsen ... look ordinary. But what really is relevant in this thread is his ability to go through different lines of thought that he went through during the game, with incredible clarity. Point out variation after variation ... why that variation seemed good, and why he discarded it and what he chose instead. That is how a 2700+ GM thinks! When Hans won his game against MC and after MC withdrew ... I really thought MC was being salty and was pissed off he lost to someone not known. But then the stuff surfaced about his online cheating ... that was not good ... so I paid attention to his next game against Firouzja. In the post game analysis I was expecting some interesting insights into what could possibly be a top 3 super GM. Instead the analysis was by some 2400 IM who had no clue what was going on and somehow "stumbled" on good moves due to "amazing intuition". Statements like "I don't have to give variations here" (in an absolutely explosive tactical melee) and "in what universe is this not totally winning" (in a position where GM Nakamura thought was totally lost after 10 seconds thought and -4 on engine) ... "half the board is completely cutoff" (when Firouzja had setup some violent counterplay) .... Yeah right !!!! It is possible that Hans has some weird personality disorder that can explain that and if so then I take back everything ... but OMG that was just so hard to take in!
You keep saying this, but.
In order to distinguish between a 2400 IM and a 2700 GM from some post game commenting requires chess knowledge and experience of a 2700 plus player. What is your rating?
The question is if it is correct.
I believe that different players may have their chess playing strength for different reasons.
One may be relatively strong in calculation and another player may be relatively strong in evaluation of the position.
Another strength might NOT be in chess, but in other cognitive area, like being able to get a Minor Degree in Chess from Webster University, chess history to the psychology and strategy of the game, even if their rating is very Low https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/ar ... the%20game.
The topic is interesting as it relates to cheat detection. I would call it confessions of an online chess cheater.
Wow, what a glorification of Hiarcs human-like characteristics. It intrigued me and I played a game against it under the Fritz GUI with ELO set at 2125. It moved instantly, and I took about 20 minutes total. If that's how a 2125 human plays, then either I know nothing about chess or I have master strength. Judge by yourselves which is the case. If it has something to do with the interface, then I apologize to Hiarcs developers.
LMAO! Go Magnus, Free point for Niemann. What a way to protest.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
So...Magnus played 1 move against Hans today...logged off and lost. Strange (behavior). He resigned. What does this tell us? He's doubling down...and can't keep doing this crap.
CornfedForever wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:20 pm
So...Magnus played 1 move against Hans today...logged off and lost. Strange (behavior). He resigned. What does this tell us? He's doubling down...and can't keep doing this crap.
I actually expected something like this. Magnus refuses to play against Niemann, but he was contractually obligated to play in this event and could only fulfill that obligation by playing one move and resigning. I am not expressing any opinion regarding actual cheating (other than what is already known), but if Magnus is convinced of it (at least in online play), then I can understand why he did this. In the future he can simply state that he won't play in any tournament with Niemann, but in this case he was already committed before he concluded that Niemann was cheating.
CornfedForever wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:20 pm
So...Magnus played 1 move against Hans today...logged off and lost. Strange (behavior). He resigned. What does this tell us? He's doubling down...and can't keep doing this crap.
In the future he can simply state that he won't play in any tournament with Niemann, but in this case he was already committed before he concluded that Niemann was cheating.
I think this is what it has come down to. If more players would do this then maybe FIDE and Organizers would take a stronger position on cheaters when caught.
Last edited by AdminX on Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
CornfedForever wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:20 pm
So...Magnus played 1 move against Hans today...logged off and lost. Strange (behavior). He resigned. What does this tell us? He's doubling down...and can't keep doing this crap.
I actually expected something like this. Magnus refuses to play against Niemann, but he was contractually obligated to play in this event and could only fulfill that obligation by playing one move and resigning. I am not expressing any opinion regarding actual cheating (other than what is already known), but if Magnus is convinced of it (at least in online play), then I can understand why he did this. In the future he can simply state that he won't play in any tournament with Niemann, but in this case he was already committed before he concluded that Niemann was cheating.
He is essentially saying that online (and perhaps OTB), no cheat detection - even one for his own company/tourney - is good enough for him when it comes to Hans. But can't he use this as precedent and do the same for anyone he (in his own mind at least) thinks deserves it...Online or OTB?
In any case, it's unfair to the other participants to do this as that point for Hans may take some out of advancing. Unless of course, Magnus is willing to leave the tournament (as in St. Louis) and nullify his results to this point.
Last edited by CornfedForever on Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe all online chess should now start to require dual webcam setups as well, just as they do in these major online events.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
