carldaman wrote:I think a subscription service would make most people happy. That way, paying customers would also be able to keep up with open source freeware that is released frequently, and not feel somehow "cheated".
They will still feel cheated if the rate of progress in a particular week is not to their liking, not to speak of the weeks in which no development versions are released because of hard to catch bugs that are being chased.
I keep being reminded of a song from 1972, Rick Nelsons "Garden Party" where he was booed off the stage for presenting new material. His audience wanted to hear the old stuff from when he was a teenage idol and he had outgrown that. The song Garden Party was about this event and the killer lyric was, "you can't please everybody, you gotta please yourself."
Well that does not reflect my feelings, but I can definitely understand his point of view. In fact the support I've been getting is absolutely awesome and I want you all to know that I greatly appreciate it.
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.
mcostalba wrote:I'd just want to inform that current Stockfish that will play in Stage 3 is the syzygy (yes!) version, kindly compiled by Lucas Braesch.
Don wrote:
We don't have any specific plans yet. But we get gains frequently so there is almost always a stronger version of Komodo than the last release. The funny thing is that when we say so publicly I often get angry emails. One person who emails me frequently criticized me for making progress too soon after a release. I didn't know what to say so I almost said sarcastically that I'm really sorry we improved Komodo so quickly, maybe some jail time is in order or some kind of penalty we should have to pay.
Don't worry about it Don. Some people just don't understand that there are always development versions of an engine and that they don't know how to separate them from the public release.
But I still feel badly for them. We are conditioned by capitalism to constantly think we are "missing" out if we don't buy, buy, buy. And we always want the very latest and greatest gadget or toy. I am like that too.
The subscription idea solves a lot of that though.
Tcec Komodo is a development, stronger than K6. Its ok, nobody has to complain.
But if you release it now as K7, looking for another 40 $ there are some problems. The ones that does not bought the new, shinny K6 will now have K7 for 40$. Others, maybe old client from long time, recentrly paying 40 for K6 has now to pay again another 40$ for K7( for a 80$ total in one month aprox). And looks some unfair.
They get punished because they bought "too fast" K6.
Some people never buy a engine, other buy everything offered and most people buy time to time. If you release 4 versions in a year, many will not follow your pace (spend 4 x 40 = 120). And if you release so often some will not buy just because soon, (couple of months) will be another stronger version and will spend their money better if they wait.
Just my 2 pesos.
How is anyone being punished if we were to release a new version even every week? Are you forced to buy? You just skip buying that version and wait until we release an upgrade you feel is worthy of your dollar.
We have received some emails BEGGING us to release. The emails say PLEASE RELEASE I am willing to pay, I know you have something better. So no matter what you do people are going to bust your balls.
But for sure you have to count the people NOT emailing you saying:
I have to pay again? I payed $40 last week and now i'm outdated and have to pay $40 extra? Its ok to release fast, but (my view) its incompatible to profit all times in this way.
You are free to run your business as you like, and as I understand, you should have to give some recognition to the old clients, specially the ones just bought K6.
Imagine Komodo is $80, and you get 50% off with the next version. In fact, you get $40 back if you choose not to update! No questions asked. Not only that, bu also you get the $40 in advance when you buy the first time!
Miguel
Miguel, All you write after your word "Imagine" is no sense. That was not offered. And, in Don benefit: he neither offered a minimum time for a next release.
BTW, its a good moment to say: 80$ for me (and probably others) is too much, and I'm not looking to twist Don wishes. Its a sane point of view, just telling this sort of things can move away customers.
I never pay for engines, specially if we have some great freeware and shareware version. And as exception I bought K6 to help with the illnes. Still, Im not looking for a free K7. I just don't care, as I never cared for houdini and that was one time buy, not for K6 but for Don.
But I really think many people where "touch" at the K6 release and more than one rushed to buy... You try to think what customers think about you, if few days after releasing K6 you release k7.
To be complete honest, I do think the *only* problem on releasing k7 now is because k6 release was presented as the last "Don" komodo. And announcing k7 now is like a joke after that.
PS: From the time I bought, I run K6 only once, a 2 games match against latest stockfish and the result was Stockfish won 1½-½
Actually Komodo 6 is indeed the last "Don" komodo in the sense of his being the sole programmer (other than the easy modifications I made). The the TCEC version already includes contributions by our new partner Mark Leffler, and by the time we actually release a Komodo 7 I'm sure it will be very much a joint effort.
carldaman wrote:I think a subscription service would make most people happy. That way, paying customers would also be able to keep up with open source freeware that is released frequently, and not feel somehow "cheated".
They will still feel cheated if the rate of progress in a particular week is not to their liking, not to speak of the weeks in which no development versions are released because of hard to catch bugs that are being chased.
It's theoretically possible, I suppose -- there was a similar issue with those that pre-ordered Chiron, but eventually there was an upgrade to v1.5. I tend to think that such would be less likely with Komodo, but you raise a valid point.
Martin Thoresen wrote:Stage 2 finished last night and 10 engines qualified for Stage 3. The total number of games will be 90 and the top 6 qualifies for Stage 4. The opening book themes are Candidates 2013, Sinquefield Cup 2013 and King's Tournament 2012.
Martin Thoresen wrote:Stage 2 finished last night and 10 engines qualified for Stage 3. The total number of games will be 90 and the top 6 qualifies for Stage 4. The opening book themes are Candidates 2013, Sinquefield Cup 2013 and King's Tournament 2012.
mcostalba wrote:Thanks Martin for running this tournament !
I think (but you already know it ) that allowing engines to upgrade between stages is really a plus for TCEC, considering also that is a very long one and so is not easy to keep people interested without throwing new stuff at them.
I'd just want to inform that current Stockfish that will play in Stage 3 is the syzygy (yes!) version, kindly compiled by Lucas Braesch. Sources are from:
mcostalba wrote:Thanks Martin for running this tournament !
I think (but you already know it ) that allowing engines to upgrade between stages is really a plus for TCEC, considering also that is a very long one and so is not easy to keep people interested without throwing new stuff at them.
I'd just want to inform that current Stockfish that will play in Stage 3 is the syzygy (yes!) version, kindly compiled by Lucas Braesch. Sources are from:
NOTE: as I didn't generate the table bases I didn't test this function. I just compiled the sources and ran the bench command to check it is working well.
) that allowing engines to upgrade between stages is really a plus for TCEC, considering also that is a very long one and so is not easy to keep people interested without throwing new stuff at them.