Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

[Chessqueen]

Well this event is getting interesting!

Yes...the 3 points Magnus gave to Hans yesterday, may end up kicking someone out of advancing if Hans can hold onto his spot in the top 8. He had a good chance for 3 more against Pragg but tossed it away today.

GM Hans can NOT be so bad as people here on this forum portray him to be, since he is ahead of GM Giri and GM Aronian

[Chessqueen]

Well this event is getting interesting!

Yes...the 3 points Magnus gave to Hans yesterday, may end up kicking someone out of advancing if Hans can hold onto his spot in the top 8. He had a good chance for 3 more against Pragg but tossed it away today.

GM Hans can NOT be so bad as people here on this forum portray him to be, since he is ahead of GM Giri and GM Aronian

[Graham Banks]

[Chessqueen]

After this positions from move 16 forward how many moves are considered the best moves which are hard for any GM rated like GM Niemann to find but very easy for engines rated over 2500 to find.? Game between GM Niemann vs GM Aronian
[fen]/2r1k2r/1bqn1pbp/pp1pp1p1/4n1P1/3NPP2/1PN1B3/P1PQB2P/R4RK1 w k - 1 16 [/fen]

Even Hermann 2.8 rated 2625 can find the forcing winning move

FEN: 2r1k2r/1bqn1pbp/pp1pp1p1/4n1P1/3NPP2/1PN1B3/P1PQB2P/R4RK1 w k - 1 16

Hermann 2.8 64 bit:
1/19 00:00 841 841k +0.13 Nc3-a4
2/19 00:00 1k 1,447k +0.27 Nc3-a4 Ne5-c6
3/19 00:00 3k 2,588k +0.31 Nc3-a4 Ne5-c6 c2-c4
4/21 00:00 8k 7,587k +0.23 Nc3-a4 Ne5-c6 c2-c4 O-O
4/21+ 00:00 10k 10,481k +0.23 Nd4-b5 Qc7-c4
4/21+ 00:00 12k 11,633k +0.74 Nd4-b5 Ne5-d3 c2xd3 a6xb5
4/21 00:00 14k 850k +0.99 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Ne5-f3+ Be2xf3
5/22 00:00 18k 1,135k +1.58 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Qc7xc2 Nb5xd6+ Ke8-f8 f4xe5
7/27 00:00 55k 1,177k +2.18 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Qc7-c6 Nb5xd6+ Ke8-f8 f4xe5 Bg7xe5 Rf1xf7+ Kf8-g8
9/34 00:00 202k 1,432k +2.39 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Qc7xc2 Nb5xd6+ Ke8-f8 f4xe5 Qc2xd2 Rf1xf7+ Kf8-g8 Be3xd2
10/34 00:00 318k 1,452k +2.29 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Qc7xc2 Nb5xd6+ Ke8-f8 f4xe5 Qc2xd2 Rf1xf7+ Kf8-g8 Be3xd2 Rc8-c2
11/34 00:00 1,185k 1,458k +2.77 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Qc7-c6 Nb5xd6+ Ke8-f8 f4xe5 Bg7xe5 Nd6xf7 Kf8-g7 Nf7xh8 Kg7xh8 Be3-d4 Qc6xe4 Bd4xe5+ Nd7xe5
12/34 00:02 3,058k 1,494k +2.83 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Qc7-b8 Nb5xd6+ Ke8-e7 f4xe5 Nd7xe5 Nd6xc8+ Rh8xc8 Qd2-b4+ Ke7-e8 Be2-b5+ Ne5-c6 Be3-d4 Bg7-e5 Bd4xe5 Qb8xe5
13/38 00:03 5,294k 1,492k +3.26 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Qc7-b8 Nb5xd6+ Ke8-e7 f4xe5 Nd7xe5 Nd6xf7 Rc8xc2 Qd2-b4+ Ke7-e8 Be2-b5+ Ne5-d7 Qb4-d6 Qb8xd6 Nf7xd6+ Ke8-e7 Nd6xb7 Bg7xa1 Rf1xa1
14/38 00:05 8,443k 1,493k +2.99 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Qc7-b8 Nb5xd6+ Ke8-e7 f4xe5 Nd7xe5 Nd6xf7 Rc8xc2 Qd2xc2 Ne5xf7 Be3xb6 Bg7xa1 Bb6-c5+ Nf7-d6 Rf1xa1
15/40 00:10 16,019k 1,497k +3.20 Nd4-b5 a6xb5 Nc3xb5 Qc7-b8 Nb5xd6+ Ke8-e7 f4xe5 Nd7xe5 Nd6xf7 Rc8xc2 Qd2xc2 Rh8-c8 Qc2-d2 Ne5xf7 Qd2-b4+ Nf7-d6 Ra1-c1 Bb7xe4 Rc1xc8

[M ANSARI]

Aronian interview after getting crushed by Hans is hilarious !!! He was thinking that all his compatriots were paranoid about cheating. Is he now also being paranoid

[Guenther]

Aronian interview after getting crushed by Hans is hilarious :D !!! He was thinking that all his compatriots were paranoid about cheating. Is he now also being paranoid :D :D :D

Never seen something more hilarious and telling and this coming from a (former) Niemann defender.
BTW what are the security measurements of this _online_ unrated (rapid?) tournament?

The game #12 vs. Praggnanandhaa even looks to me like Niemann intentionally did not win after magnificient
opening and middlegame moves, because he might have realized he had gone too far in that game,
or his plan might be simple to reach the finals w/o too much noise (an impossible task).
IMHO even 1800 players would see simple winning moves for several times in that game for Black after
he had overwhelming advantage, except you don't want to win...the game is incredibly strange to say the least.

[pgn]
[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date ""]
[Round "12"]
[White "Praggnanandhaa"]
[Black "Niemann"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1. d4 Nf6
2. c4 {1s} e6 {2s}
3. Nc3 {2s} Bb4 {2s}
4. e3 O-O {3s}
5. Bd3 {1s} d5 {5s}
6. cxd5 {1s} exd5 {4s}
7. Ne2 {1s} b6 {40s}
8. O-O {31s} Bb7 {9s}
9. Bd2 {18s} Bd6 {39s}
10. Rc1 {2m14s} c5 {13s}
11. dxc5 {1m44s} bxc5 {2s}
12. Ng3 {33s} Nbd7 {7s}
13. Nce2 {1m03s} Ne5 {21s}
14. Bc3 {7s} Nxd3 {49s}
15. Qxd3 {3s} g6 {4s}
16. b3 {45s} h5 {8s}
17. Nf4 {2m30s} Bxf4 {3m04s}
18. exf4 {7s} d4 {12s}
19. Bb2 {23s} h4 {17s}
20. Ne2 {21s} Qd5 {3s}
21. f3 {52s} Rfe8 {2s}
22. Rf2 {53s} a5 {1m40s}
23. Qd2 {1m22s} Ba6 {18s}
24. Ba3 {8s} Rac8 9s}
25. h3 {29s} Nh5 {1m16s}
26. Nc3 {6s} Qf5 {36s}
27. Ne4 {2s} Nxf4 {2s}
28. Rxc5 {53s} Rxc5 {3s}
29. Bxc5 {1s} d3 {23s}
30. Qxa5 {2m10s} Ne2+ {4m37s}
31. Kh1 {2s} Qe5 {52s}
32. Rf1 {1m21s} Bb7 {41s}
33. Rd1 {6s} Bxe4 {11s}
34. fxe4 {2s} Nc3 {28s}
35. Rxd3 {40s} Nxe4 {2s}
36. Rd8 {18s} Ng3+ {14s}
37. Kh2 {4s} Ne2+ {2s}
38. Kh1 {2s} Ng3+ {22s}
39. Kh2 {3s} Ne4+ {55s}
40. Kg1 {26s} Qa1+ {9s}
41. Kh2 {2s} Qe5+ {1s}
42. Kg1 {12s} Qa1+ {9.36s}
43. Kh2 {2s} Qe5+ {1.63s}
1/2-1/2
[/pgn]

[Graham Banks]

FIDE's Norwegian vice president Jøran Aulin-Jansson telling NRK that FIDE is following the situation around Carlsen closely and expecting a statement in the coming days.
7:46 PM · Sep 21, 2022

[M ANSARI]

Aronian interview after getting crushed by Hans is hilarious !!! He was thinking that all his compatriots were paranoid about cheating. Is he now also being paranoid

Never seen something more hilarious and telling and this coming from a (former) Niemann defender.
BTW what are the security measurements of this _online_ unrated (rapid?) tournament?

The game #12 vs. Praggnanandhaa even looks to me like Niemann intentionally did not win after magnificient
opening and middlegame moves, because he might have realized he had gone too far in that game,
or his plan might be simple to reach the finals w/o too much noise (an impossible task).
IMHO even 1800 players would see simple winning moves for several times in that game for Black after
he had overwhelming advantage, except you don't want to win...the game is incredibly strange to say the least.

[pgn]
[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date ""]
[Round "12"]
[White "Praggnanandhaa"]
[Black "Niemann"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1. d4 Nf6
2. c4 {1s} e6 {2s}
3. Nc3 {2s} Bb4 {2s}
4. e3 O-O {3s}
5. Bd3 {1s} d5 {5s}
6. cxd5 {1s} exd5 {4s}
7. Ne2 {1s} b6 {40s}
8. O-O {31s} Bb7 {9s}
9. Bd2 {18s} Bd6 {39s}
10. Rc1 {2m14s} c5 {13s}
11. dxc5 {1m44s} bxc5 {2s}
12. Ng3 {33s} Nbd7 {7s}
13. Nce2 {1m03s} Ne5 {21s}
14. Bc3 {7s} Nxd3 {49s}
15. Qxd3 {3s} g6 {4s}
16. b3 {45s} h5 {8s}
17. Nf4 {2m30s} Bxf4 {3m04s}
18. exf4 {7s} d4 {12s}
19. Bb2 {23s} h4 {17s}
20. Ne2 {21s} Qd5 {3s}
21. f3 {52s} Rfe8 {2s}
22. Rf2 {53s} a5 {1m40s}
23. Qd2 {1m22s} Ba6 {18s}
24. Ba3 {8s} Rac8 9s}
25. h3 {29s} Nh5 {1m16s}
26. Nc3 {6s} Qf5 {36s}
27. Ne4 {2s} Nxf4 {2s}
28. Rxc5 {53s} Rxc5 {3s}
29. Bxc5 {1s} d3 {23s}
30. Qxa5 {2m10s} Ne2+ {4m37s}
31. Kh1 {2s} Qe5 {52s}
32. Rf1 {1m21s} Bb7 {41s}
33. Rd1 {6s} Bxe4 {11s}
34. fxe4 {2s} Nc3 {28s}
35. Rxd3 {40s} Nxe4 {2s}
36. Rd8 {18s} Ng3+ {14s}
37. Kh2 {4s} Ne2+ {2s}
38. Kh1 {2s} Ng3+ {22s}
39. Kh2 {3s} Ne4+ {55s}
40. Kg1 {26s} Qa1+ {9s}
41. Kh2 {2s} Qe5+ {1s}
42. Kg1 {12s} Qa1+ {9.36s}
43. Kh2 {2s} Qe5+ {1.63s}
1/2-1/2
[/pgn]

Yeah I saw the Pragg game and really something is up. Maybe it is not cheating and Hans just has 2 different personalities ... one is an incredibly strong player and another just an average player. Or maybe his is this incredibly strong chess player that likes to troll everyone enjoys throwing a few games and then against stronger players he just crushes them! If so then that explains how other GM's also thought that his strength seems to change depending on a situation or depending on who is opponent is. In this position where Pragg was totally outplayed from the opening and had a totally lost position ...

[d]4r1k1/5p2/6p1/Q1B1q3/4P2p/1P1p3P/P3n1P1/3R3K b - - 0 34

Even a 1000 ELO player can see that you can do a Knight check and win a pawn and still have very strong control of the e file ... this might not be the number 1 move of the engine but it is incredibly easy to see for a human and totally paralyzes white and is totally winning. Instead, he plays ... Nc3 ??? .... wait what ???? In this position there are at least a dozen moves that win ... one very obvious to even a 1000 ELO player ... yet this incredible tactical genius plays Nc3 ????which immediately loses a pawn and gives black probably the only drawing line available and allows the rook and queen to control the d file ???? Seriously !!! The same guy that had some incredibly difficult to play tactical shots that blew Aronian in just over 20 moves???? The same guy who wizzed through a tactical mele with Firouzja!

I know this is not a chess forum but rather a computer chess forum ... but almost everyone here is good enough to feel that something unusual is up here. I absolutely agree that nothing is worse than falsely accusing someone of cheating ... but man it is really getting hard to disregard all these things as nothing.

[CornfedForever]

The same guy that had some incredibly difficult to play tactical shots that blew Aronian in just over 20 moves????

I hope one day you are able to catch your Moriarty, but I'm just not sure you will find him here.

That was a totally STOCK tactical shot Aronian lollygagged around and let happen. anyone could find it. If not, they need to be playing a Colle and not an Open Sicilian. (sorry, this needed to be borrowed from Chessqueen's stockpile...)

[emadsen]

The game #12 vs. Praggnanandhaa even looks to me like Niemann intentionally did not win after magnificient
opening and middlegame moves, because he might have realized he had gone too far in that game,
or his plan might be simple to reach the finals w/o too much noise (an impossible task).

Yeah I saw the Pragg game and really something is up... In this position where Pragg was totally outplayed from the opening and had a totally lost position ...

[d]4r1k1/5p2/6p1/Q1B1q3/4P2p/1P1p3P/P3n1P1/3R3K b - - 0 34

Even a 1000 ELO player can see that you can do a Knight check and win a pawn and still have very strong control of the e file ... this might not be the number 1 move of the engine but it is incredibly easy to see for a human and totally paralyzes white and is totally winning. Instead, he plays ... Nc3 ??? .... wait what ???? In this position there are at least a dozen moves that win ... one very obvious to even a 1000 ELO player ... yet this incredible tactical genius plays Nc3 ????which immediately loses a pawn and gives black probably the only drawing line available and allows the rook and queen to control the d file ????

Yeah, that's a bizarre move.