Fritz 15.0

[IWB]

...
However, IPON is rating it only 28 elo above Rybka 4.0

This already come up at the german CSS fora but it is a bit missleading.
Some years ago I tested R4.0 and R4.1 with a couple of thousand games vs the same opponents and the same openings ...(IPON conditions) and R4.1 come out slightly ahead.
At that point the testing of R4.0 was stopped and only R4.1 was continued in my testing.
Now a lot of better engines came and decreased the rating of R4.1 while R4.0 rating was somehow "frozen". After a while R4.0 seemed to be better than R4.1 which in reality is not the case!

That is a problem for all rating lists* with pairs of close engines and one of them is no longer tested. On the other hand we are talking about very low 1 digit Elo numbers. No human can possibly "feel" that. I consider that for any practical reason as irrelevant. For all I know R4.1 as better than R4.0!

Bye
Ingo

*Maybe even more for some lists were not only the opponents are different, but although the openings and number of games against certain opponents, maybe hardare with a different time factor included ... various things which might add variability. In short, forget about a +/- of 10 Elo in rating lists and dont mix it with engine development ...

[WuShock]

Maybe next year Fritz 16 will be a repackaged Houdini 4 , and be another 100 point increase over F15 .......

I did order F15 , to update my F12 GUI .......... But if the Elo increase is only + 30 approx , then Vas hasn't done any work on the engine........

[Leto]

Maybe next year Fritz 16 will be a repackaged Houdini 4 , and be another 100 point increase over F15 .......

I did order F15 , to update my F12 GUI .......... But if the Elo increase is only + 30 approx , then Vas hasn't done any work on the engine........

Where did the +30 elo come from then? It doesn't just magically appear.

Some of that might be from the Rybka 4 cluster version because I do remember him saying that software-wise the cluster was stronger than Rybka 4 because he can continually update it. Now if he remains the author for Fritz 16 and it's stronger than F15 then certainly he's working on improving the engine and I'm hoping that will be the case because given time I think he has a shot of someday surpassing Houdini 4.

[Modern Times]

There must be scope for further big gains, but it depends on the relationship Vas has with chessbase. If he is emplyed full time, then the outlook is good, but I doubt that he is. More likely, they paid him for a few days work to polish up the last Rybka code base that he had, which hadn't moved far from 4.1. The same may be the case for Fritz 16 - he may not do anything on Fritz 15 for the next 10 months, and then chessbase will come along, pay him on a daily rate to get some further gains and release as 16.

[Harvey Williamson]

There must be scope for further big gains, but it depends on the relationship Vas has with chessbase. If he is emplyed full time, then the outlook is good, but I doubt that he is. More likely, they paid him for a few days work to polish up the last Rybka code base that he had, which hadn't moved far from 4.1. The same may be the case for Fritz 16 - he may not do anything on Fritz 15 for the next 10 months, and then chessbase will come along, pay him on a daily rate to get some further gains and release as 16.

I think you are right. If he was employed full time there would be interviews and more publicity about his involvement. He may or may not provide a Fritz 16. I doubt he and CB have had serious talks about that yet.

[AdminX]

Frayer wrote / Rybka Forum:

N/- By Frayer Date 2015-11-22 09:52

Are you guys out of your minds over here?

No one seems to care many of us have already seen this new fritz engine in action. It is not any Elo points stronger than anything. From what I have witnessed even on 36 cores it can't punch its way out of a wet paper bag. The testers informed me it looked like a renamed rybka 4.1 (the exe. file is slightly larger than 4.1 and its output is still obfuscated to conceal it identity). I watched it lose over and over to Komodos and Stockfish in two separate tours on two different servers. (Infinity and Chessbase) The game I provided as an example is Fritz 15 running on 36 cores being beat down by a stockfish compile running on 4 cores. Reports from the early testers say scaling on multiple cores is poor at best. Personally I would rather have KnightStalker back.

Most of us will buy f15 for the new gui but those who believe this is some kind a come back for Rybka are going to be sadly mistaken. Don't let hero worship divest you of your money again.

[pgn][Event "Rated game, 4m + 0s"]
[Site "Machines A"]
[Date "2015.11.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "SandSpider, Toltec 201115 64 PO"]
[Black "ThomasTM, Fritz 15"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D20"]
[WhiteElo "2505"]
[BlackElo "2346"]
[Annotator "0.37;0.48"]
[PlyCount "125"]
[EventDate "2015.11.20"]
[TimeControl "240"]

{Fritz 15: 21.0 ply; 8,315kN/s AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 6376
2300MHz, (32 threads), Sept. Book.ctg, 1024 MB} 1. d4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:
00]} d5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 2. c4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} dxc4 {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 3. e3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} e5 {[%eval 0,0]
[%emt 0:00:00]} 4. Bxc4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} exd4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:
00:00]} 5. exd4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bd6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]}
6. Nf3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nf6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 7. Qe2+ {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qe7 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 8. Qxe7+ {[%eval
0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bxe7 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 9. Nc3 {[%eval 0,0]
[%emt 0:00:00]} O-O {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 10. O-O {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:
00:00]} Nc6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 11. Re1 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]}
Bd6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 12. Bg5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nd7 {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 13. Bd5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} h6 {[%eval 0,
0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 14. Bh4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} g5 {[%eval 48,20]
[%emt 0:00:16]} 15. Bg3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nb6 {[%eval 57,20] [%emt
0:00:09]} 16. Rad1 {[%eval 37,22] [%emt 0:00:13]} Kg7 {[%eval 45,18] [%emt 0:
00:10]} 17. Bxc6 {[%eval 46,23] [%emt 0:00:08]} bxc6 {[%eval 54,20] [%emt 0:00:
07]} 18. Rc1 {[%eval 50,25] [%emt 0:00:03]} f5 {[%eval 31,20] [%emt 0:00:08]}
19. Bxd6 {[%eval 20,25] [%emt 0:00:02]} cxd6 {[%eval 32,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 20.
d5 {[%eval 28,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nxd5 {[%eval 32,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} 21. Nxd5
{[%eval 32,26] [%emt 0:00:02]} cxd5 {[%eval 33,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} 22. Rc6 {
[%eval 41,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd8 {[%eval 38,23] [%emt 0:00:05]} 23. Nd4 {
[%eval 27,26] [%emt 0:00:12]} f4 {[%eval 39,23] [%emt 0:00:21]} 24. f3 {
[%eval 35,26] [%emt 0:00:16]} Kf6 {[%eval 41,22] [%emt 0:00:15]} 25. b4 {
[%eval 40,30] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bf5 {[%eval 38,23] [%emt 0:00:06]} 26. b5 {
[%eval 22,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rac8 {[%eval 43,23] [%emt 0:00:10]} 27. Ra6 {
[%eval 24,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd7 {[%eval 43,22] [%emt 0:00:03]} 28. Nc6 {
[%eval 24,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rcc7 {[%eval 49,22] [%emt 0:00:08]} 29. a4 {
[%eval 32,28] [%emt 0:00:07]} Be6 {[%eval 45,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} 30. Kf2 {
[%eval 33,25] [%emt 0:00:08]} h5 {[%eval 58,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} 31. Re2 {
[%eval 45,25] [%emt 0:00:12]} h4 {[%eval 42,19] [%emt 0:00:06]} 32. h3 {
[%eval 52,29] [%emt 0:00:06]} Bf7 {[%eval 58,20] [%emt 0:00:06]} 33. Rb2 {
[%eval 53,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} d4 {[%eval 69,21] [%emt 0:00:05]} 34. Rd2 {
[%eval 54,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rb7 {[%eval 72,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} 35. Rxd4 {
[%eval 66,29] [%emt 0:00:09]} Be6 {[%eval 72,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} 36. Rd2 {
[%eval 67,28] [%emt 0:00:06]} Bf7 {[%eval 86,23] [%emt 0:00:09]} 37. Rd1 {
[%eval 76,28] [%emt 0:00:26]} Be6 {[%eval 106,24] [%emt 0:00:17]} 38. Rc1 {
[%eval 90,23] [%emt 0:00:03]} Rdc7 {[%eval 102,21] [%emt 0:00:04]} 39. Ke2 {
[%eval 118,22] [%emt 0:00:07]} Rd7 {[%eval 115,20] [%emt 0:00:04]} 40. Kd3 {
[%eval 138,24] [%emt 0:00:06]} Bf7 {[%eval 145,19] [%emt 0:00:07]} 41. Nb4 {
[%eval 157,23] [%emt 0:00:06]} Rd8 {[%eval 162,19] [%emt 0:00:03]} 42. Kd4 {
[%eval 183,22] [%emt 0:00:08]} Kg7 {[%eval 189,19] [%emt 0:00:04]} 43. Nd5 {
[%eval 209,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} Kh6 {[%eval 213,21] [%emt 0:00:01]} 44. Rcc6 {
[%eval 244,22] [%emt 0:00:03]} Re8 {[%eval 220,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 45. Rxd6+ {
[%eval 251,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kg7 {[%eval 227,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} 46. Nc3 {
[%eval 272,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} Re1 {[%eval 238,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 47. Ne4 {
[%eval 268,21] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg1 {[%eval 238,19] [%emt 0:00:04]} 48. Ke5 {
[%eval 280,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rxg2 {[%eval 299,15] [%emt 0:00:02]} 49. Kf5 {
[%eval 290,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} g4 {[%eval 287,15] [%emt 0:00:00]} 50. hxg4 {
[%eval 305,23] [%emt 0:00:04]} h3 {[%eval 320,17] [%emt 0:00:02]} 51. Rh6 {
[%eval 308,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} h2 {[%eval 314,16] [%emt 0:00:00]} 52. Rh4 {
[%eval 359,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} Rd7 {[%eval 340,16] [%emt 0:00:02]} 53. Rah6 {
[%eval 384,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd5+ {[%eval 356,18] [%emt 0:00:00]} 54. Kxf4 {
[%eval 384,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd4 {[%eval 385,19] [%emt 0:00:01]} 55. Rh7+ {
[%eval 476,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} Kf8 {[%eval 386,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} 56. Ke5 {
[%eval 483,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd7 {[%eval 463,18] [%emt 0:00:02]} 57. Kf6 {
[%eval 616,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} Re2 {[%eval 531,15] [%emt 0:00:01]} 58. Rxh2 {
[%eval 647,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Re3 {[%eval 477,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 59. R2h3 {
[%eval 763,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} Red3 {[%eval 619,14] [%emt 0:00:01]} 60. g5 {
[%eval 822,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} R7d6+ {[%eval 671,16] [%emt 0:00:00]} 61. Nxd6 {
[%eval 867,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} Rxd6+ {[%eval 731,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 62. Ke5 {
[%eval 945,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} Rd5+ {[%eval 841,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 63. Kf4 {
[%eval 979,24] [%emt 0:00:00] ThomasTM,Fritz 15 gibt auf (Lag: Av=0.58s,
max=2.4s)} 1-0
[/pgn]

[Leto]

Frayer wrote / Rybka Forum:

N/- By Frayer Date 2015-11-22 09:52

Are you guys out of your minds over here?

No one seems to care many of us have already seen this new fritz engine in action. It is not any Elo points stronger than anything. From what I have witnessed even on 36 cores it can't punch its way out of a wet paper bag. The testers informed me it looked like a renamed rybka 4.1 (the exe. file is slightly larger than 4.1 and its output is still obfuscated to conceal it identity). I watched it lose over and over to Komodos and Stockfish in two separate tours on two different servers. (Infinity and Chessbase) The game I provided as an example is Fritz 15 running on 36 cores being beat down by a stockfish compile running on 4 cores. Reports from the early testers say scaling on multiple cores is poor at best. Personally I would rather have KnightStalker back.

Most of us will buy f15 for the new gui but those who believe this is some kind a come back for Rybka are going to be sadly mistaken. Don't let hero worship divest you of your money again.

[pgn][Event "Rated game, 4m + 0s"]
[Site "Machines A"]
[Date "2015.11.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "SandSpider, Toltec 201115 64 PO"]
[Black "ThomasTM, Fritz 15"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D20"]
[WhiteElo "2505"]
[BlackElo "2346"]
[Annotator "0.37;0.48"]
[PlyCount "125"]
[EventDate "2015.11.20"]
[TimeControl "240"]

{Fritz 15: 21.0 ply; 8,315kN/s AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 6376
2300MHz, (32 threads), Sept. Book.ctg, 1024 MB} 1. d4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:
00]} d5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 2. c4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} dxc4 {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 3. e3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} e5 {[%eval 0,0]
[%emt 0:00:00]} 4. Bxc4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} exd4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:
00:00]} 5. exd4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bd6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]}
6. Nf3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nf6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 7. Qe2+ {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qe7 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 8. Qxe7+ {[%eval
0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bxe7 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 9. Nc3 {[%eval 0,0]
[%emt 0:00:00]} O-O {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 10. O-O {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:
00:00]} Nc6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 11. Re1 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]}
Bd6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 12. Bg5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nd7 {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 13. Bd5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} h6 {[%eval 0,
0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 14. Bh4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} g5 {[%eval 48,20]
[%emt 0:00:16]} 15. Bg3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nb6 {[%eval 57,20] [%emt
0:00:09]} 16. Rad1 {[%eval 37,22] [%emt 0:00:13]} Kg7 {[%eval 45,18] [%emt 0:
00:10]} 17. Bxc6 {[%eval 46,23] [%emt 0:00:08]} bxc6 {[%eval 54,20] [%emt 0:00:
07]} 18. Rc1 {[%eval 50,25] [%emt 0:00:03]} f5 {[%eval 31,20] [%emt 0:00:08]}
19. Bxd6 {[%eval 20,25] [%emt 0:00:02]} cxd6 {[%eval 32,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 20.
d5 {[%eval 28,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nxd5 {[%eval 32,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} 21. Nxd5
{[%eval 32,26] [%emt 0:00:02]} cxd5 {[%eval 33,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} 22. Rc6 {
[%eval 41,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd8 {[%eval 38,23] [%emt 0:00:05]} 23. Nd4 {
[%eval 27,26] [%emt 0:00:12]} f4 {[%eval 39,23] [%emt 0:00:21]} 24. f3 {
[%eval 35,26] [%emt 0:00:16]} Kf6 {[%eval 41,22] [%emt 0:00:15]} 25. b4 {
[%eval 40,30] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bf5 {[%eval 38,23] [%emt 0:00:06]} 26. b5 {
[%eval 22,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rac8 {[%eval 43,23] [%emt 0:00:10]} 27. Ra6 {
[%eval 24,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd7 {[%eval 43,22] [%emt 0:00:03]} 28. Nc6 {
[%eval 24,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rcc7 {[%eval 49,22] [%emt 0:00:08]} 29. a4 {
[%eval 32,28] [%emt 0:00:07]} Be6 {[%eval 45,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} 30. Kf2 {
[%eval 33,25] [%emt 0:00:08]} h5 {[%eval 58,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} 31. Re2 {
[%eval 45,25] [%emt 0:00:12]} h4 {[%eval 42,19] [%emt 0:00:06]} 32. h3 {
[%eval 52,29] [%emt 0:00:06]} Bf7 {[%eval 58,20] [%emt 0:00:06]} 33. Rb2 {
[%eval 53,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} d4 {[%eval 69,21] [%emt 0:00:05]} 34. Rd2 {
[%eval 54,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rb7 {[%eval 72,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} 35. Rxd4 {
[%eval 66,29] [%emt 0:00:09]} Be6 {[%eval 72,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} 36. Rd2 {
[%eval 67,28] [%emt 0:00:06]} Bf7 {[%eval 86,23] [%emt 0:00:09]} 37. Rd1 {
[%eval 76,28] [%emt 0:00:26]} Be6 {[%eval 106,24] [%emt 0:00:17]} 38. Rc1 {
[%eval 90,23] [%emt 0:00:03]} Rdc7 {[%eval 102,21] [%emt 0:00:04]} 39. Ke2 {
[%eval 118,22] [%emt 0:00:07]} Rd7 {[%eval 115,20] [%emt 0:00:04]} 40. Kd3 {
[%eval 138,24] [%emt 0:00:06]} Bf7 {[%eval 145,19] [%emt 0:00:07]} 41. Nb4 {
[%eval 157,23] [%emt 0:00:06]} Rd8 {[%eval 162,19] [%emt 0:00:03]} 42. Kd4 {
[%eval 183,22] [%emt 0:00:08]} Kg7 {[%eval 189,19] [%emt 0:00:04]} 43. Nd5 {
[%eval 209,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} Kh6 {[%eval 213,21] [%emt 0:00:01]} 44. Rcc6 {
[%eval 244,22] [%emt 0:00:03]} Re8 {[%eval 220,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 45. Rxd6+ {
[%eval 251,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kg7 {[%eval 227,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} 46. Nc3 {
[%eval 272,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} Re1 {[%eval 238,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 47. Ne4 {
[%eval 268,21] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg1 {[%eval 238,19] [%emt 0:00:04]} 48. Ke5 {
[%eval 280,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rxg2 {[%eval 299,15] [%emt 0:00:02]} 49. Kf5 {
[%eval 290,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} g4 {[%eval 287,15] [%emt 0:00:00]} 50. hxg4 {
[%eval 305,23] [%emt 0:00:04]} h3 {[%eval 320,17] [%emt 0:00:02]} 51. Rh6 {
[%eval 308,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} h2 {[%eval 314,16] [%emt 0:00:00]} 52. Rh4 {
[%eval 359,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} Rd7 {[%eval 340,16] [%emt 0:00:02]} 53. Rah6 {
[%eval 384,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd5+ {[%eval 356,18] [%emt 0:00:00]} 54. Kxf4 {
[%eval 384,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd4 {[%eval 385,19] [%emt 0:00:01]} 55. Rh7+ {
[%eval 476,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} Kf8 {[%eval 386,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} 56. Ke5 {
[%eval 483,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd7 {[%eval 463,18] [%emt 0:00:02]} 57. Kf6 {
[%eval 616,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} Re2 {[%eval 531,15] [%emt 0:00:01]} 58. Rxh2 {
[%eval 647,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Re3 {[%eval 477,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 59. R2h3 {
[%eval 763,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} Red3 {[%eval 619,14] [%emt 0:00:01]} 60. g5 {
[%eval 822,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} R7d6+ {[%eval 671,16] [%emt 0:00:00]} 61. Nxd6 {
[%eval 867,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} Rxd6+ {[%eval 731,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 62. Ke5 {
[%eval 945,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} Rd5+ {[%eval 841,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 63. Kf4 {
[%eval 979,24] [%emt 0:00:00] ThomasTM,Fritz 15 gibt auf (Lag: Av=0.58s,
max=2.4s)} 1-0
[/pgn]

Is he sure he's on 36 cores, it seems the GUI thinks he's on 32 cores. Anyways if the 1CPU version is estimated to be about 30 elo stronger than Rybka 4.1 then you can't expect it to beat the likes of a modern Stockfish or Komodo even if they're running on just 4 cores and you have a monster computer with 30+ cores.

[WuShock]

Where did the +30 elo come from then? It doesn't just magically appear.

The approx 30 Elo would be from the idea that Vas intentionally dumbed down the desktop version so that his cluster version would be stronger ( even on 1 core ) .........

Bottom line would be that it's not much better than Rybka was 3-4 yrs ago.....

[AdminX]

Frayer wrote / Rybka Forum:

N/- By Frayer Date 2015-11-22 09:52

Are you guys out of your minds over here?

No one seems to care many of us have already seen this new fritz engine in action. It is not any Elo points stronger than anything. From what I have witnessed even on 36 cores it can't punch its way out of a wet paper bag. The testers informed me it looked like a renamed rybka 4.1 (the exe. file is slightly larger than 4.1 and its output is still obfuscated to conceal it identity). I watched it lose over and over to Komodos and Stockfish in two separate tours on two different servers. (Infinity and Chessbase) The game I provided as an example is Fritz 15 running on 36 cores being beat down by a stockfish compile running on 4 cores. Reports from the early testers say scaling on multiple cores is poor at best. Personally I would rather have KnightStalker back.

Most of us will buy f15 for the new gui but those who believe this is some kind a come back for Rybka are going to be sadly mistaken. Don't let hero worship divest you of your money again.

[pgn][Event "Rated game, 4m + 0s"]
[Site "Machines A"]
[Date "2015.11.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "SandSpider, Toltec 201115 64 PO"]
[Black "ThomasTM, Fritz 15"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D20"]
[WhiteElo "2505"]
[BlackElo "2346"]
[Annotator "0.37;0.48"]
[PlyCount "125"]
[EventDate "2015.11.20"]
[TimeControl "240"]

{Fritz 15: 21.0 ply; 8,315kN/s AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 6376
2300MHz, (32 threads), Sept. Book.ctg, 1024 MB} 1. d4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:
00]} d5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 2. c4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} dxc4 {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 3. e3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} e5 {[%eval 0,0]
[%emt 0:00:00]} 4. Bxc4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} exd4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:
00:00]} 5. exd4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bd6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]}
6. Nf3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nf6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 7. Qe2+ {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qe7 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 8. Qxe7+ {[%eval
0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bxe7 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 9. Nc3 {[%eval 0,0]
[%emt 0:00:00]} O-O {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 10. O-O {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:
00:00]} Nc6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 11. Re1 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]}
Bd6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 12. Bg5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nd7 {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 13. Bd5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} h6 {[%eval 0,
0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 14. Bh4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} g5 {[%eval 48,20]
[%emt 0:00:16]} 15. Bg3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nb6 {[%eval 57,20] [%emt
0:00:09]} 16. Rad1 {[%eval 37,22] [%emt 0:00:13]} Kg7 {[%eval 45,18] [%emt 0:
00:10]} 17. Bxc6 {[%eval 46,23] [%emt 0:00:08]} bxc6 {[%eval 54,20] [%emt 0:00:
07]} 18. Rc1 {[%eval 50,25] [%emt 0:00:03]} f5 {[%eval 31,20] [%emt 0:00:08]}
19. Bxd6 {[%eval 20,25] [%emt 0:00:02]} cxd6 {[%eval 32,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 20.
d5 {[%eval 28,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nxd5 {[%eval 32,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} 21. Nxd5
{[%eval 32,26] [%emt 0:00:02]} cxd5 {[%eval 33,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} 22. Rc6 {
[%eval 41,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd8 {[%eval 38,23] [%emt 0:00:05]} 23. Nd4 {
[%eval 27,26] [%emt 0:00:12]} f4 {[%eval 39,23] [%emt 0:00:21]} 24. f3 {
[%eval 35,26] [%emt 0:00:16]} Kf6 {[%eval 41,22] [%emt 0:00:15]} 25. b4 {
[%eval 40,30] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bf5 {[%eval 38,23] [%emt 0:00:06]} 26. b5 {
[%eval 22,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rac8 {[%eval 43,23] [%emt 0:00:10]} 27. Ra6 {
[%eval 24,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd7 {[%eval 43,22] [%emt 0:00:03]} 28. Nc6 {
[%eval 24,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rcc7 {[%eval 49,22] [%emt 0:00:08]} 29. a4 {
[%eval 32,28] [%emt 0:00:07]} Be6 {[%eval 45,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} 30. Kf2 {
[%eval 33,25] [%emt 0:00:08]} h5 {[%eval 58,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} 31. Re2 {
[%eval 45,25] [%emt 0:00:12]} h4 {[%eval 42,19] [%emt 0:00:06]} 32. h3 {
[%eval 52,29] [%emt 0:00:06]} Bf7 {[%eval 58,20] [%emt 0:00:06]} 33. Rb2 {
[%eval 53,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} d4 {[%eval 69,21] [%emt 0:00:05]} 34. Rd2 {
[%eval 54,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rb7 {[%eval 72,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} 35. Rxd4 {
[%eval 66,29] [%emt 0:00:09]} Be6 {[%eval 72,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} 36. Rd2 {
[%eval 67,28] [%emt 0:00:06]} Bf7 {[%eval 86,23] [%emt 0:00:09]} 37. Rd1 {
[%eval 76,28] [%emt 0:00:26]} Be6 {[%eval 106,24] [%emt 0:00:17]} 38. Rc1 {
[%eval 90,23] [%emt 0:00:03]} Rdc7 {[%eval 102,21] [%emt 0:00:04]} 39. Ke2 {
[%eval 118,22] [%emt 0:00:07]} Rd7 {[%eval 115,20] [%emt 0:00:04]} 40. Kd3 {
[%eval 138,24] [%emt 0:00:06]} Bf7 {[%eval 145,19] [%emt 0:00:07]} 41. Nb4 {
[%eval 157,23] [%emt 0:00:06]} Rd8 {[%eval 162,19] [%emt 0:00:03]} 42. Kd4 {
[%eval 183,22] [%emt 0:00:08]} Kg7 {[%eval 189,19] [%emt 0:00:04]} 43. Nd5 {
[%eval 209,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} Kh6 {[%eval 213,21] [%emt 0:00:01]} 44. Rcc6 {
[%eval 244,22] [%emt 0:00:03]} Re8 {[%eval 220,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 45. Rxd6+ {
[%eval 251,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kg7 {[%eval 227,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} 46. Nc3 {
[%eval 272,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} Re1 {[%eval 238,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 47. Ne4 {
[%eval 268,21] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg1 {[%eval 238,19] [%emt 0:00:04]} 48. Ke5 {
[%eval 280,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rxg2 {[%eval 299,15] [%emt 0:00:02]} 49. Kf5 {
[%eval 290,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} g4 {[%eval 287,15] [%emt 0:00:00]} 50. hxg4 {
[%eval 305,23] [%emt 0:00:04]} h3 {[%eval 320,17] [%emt 0:00:02]} 51. Rh6 {
[%eval 308,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} h2 {[%eval 314,16] [%emt 0:00:00]} 52. Rh4 {
[%eval 359,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} Rd7 {[%eval 340,16] [%emt 0:00:02]} 53. Rah6 {
[%eval 384,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd5+ {[%eval 356,18] [%emt 0:00:00]} 54. Kxf4 {
[%eval 384,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd4 {[%eval 385,19] [%emt 0:00:01]} 55. Rh7+ {
[%eval 476,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} Kf8 {[%eval 386,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} 56. Ke5 {
[%eval 483,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd7 {[%eval 463,18] [%emt 0:00:02]} 57. Kf6 {
[%eval 616,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} Re2 {[%eval 531,15] [%emt 0:00:01]} 58. Rxh2 {
[%eval 647,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} Re3 {[%eval 477,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 59. R2h3 {
[%eval 763,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} Red3 {[%eval 619,14] [%emt 0:00:01]} 60. g5 {
[%eval 822,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} R7d6+ {[%eval 671,16] [%emt 0:00:00]} 61. Nxd6 {
[%eval 867,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} Rxd6+ {[%eval 731,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 62. Ke5 {
[%eval 945,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} Rd5+ {[%eval 841,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 63. Kf4 {
[%eval 979,24] [%emt 0:00:00] ThomasTM,Fritz 15 gibt auf (Lag: Av=0.58s,
max=2.4s)} 1-0
[/pgn]

Is he sure he's on 36 cores, it seems the GUI thinks he's on 32 cores. Anyways if the 1CPU version is estimated to be about 30 elo stronger than Rybka 4.1 then you can't expect it to beat the likes of a modern Stockfish or Komodo even if they're running on just 4 cores and you have a monster computer with 30+ cores.

No comment is necessary, I completely agree.

[Rebel]

That is a problem for all rating lists* with pairs of close engines and one of them is no longer tested. On the other hand we are talking about very low 1 digit Elo numbers.

I don't know about that and since you speak for all rating lists it's certainly not true for old ProDeo versions. From a textfile I made 3 years ago, 3 years ago vs now gives:

Code: Select all

CEGT 40/20
ProDeo 1.0   2384 - 2349 = loss of 35 elo during 3 years
ProDeo 1.1   2453 - 2420 = loss of 33 elo during 3 years
ProDeo 1.2   2454 - 2423 = loss of 31 elo during 3 years
ProDeo 1.6   2462 - 2432 = loss of 30 elo during 3 years

No new games were played. Those are not one digit numbers

On the other hand CCRL doesn't seem to have such an aging problem.

Code: Select all

CCRL 40/40
ProDeo 1.1   2586 - 2589 = gain of 3 elo points during 3 years
ProDeo 1.2   2616 - 2617 = gain of 1 elo point during 3 years
ProDeo 1.6   2616 - 2617 = gain of 1 elo point during 3 years

No new games were played.