Moderator: Ras
What a mess. All illegal. All are guilty when using tainted code.Alexander Schmidt wrote:So if I buy a software without copyrigth remark, I am allowed to resell it?M ANSARI wrote:Since when was Ippolit GPL ?? I thought it was released as Public Domain code with absolutely zero restrictions.
BTW we are talking about a Robbo version of Kranium, it was released under GPL.
Jesus.....please fucking save us from the shit......Alexander Schmidt wrote:Thanks. That's quite convincing. I didn't look at this Robbo
GPL requires any derivative work to be released FREE of charge with Source code too. However you are allowed to SELL it or value added services with it, but you still must make the free version available.M ANSARI wrote:Since when was Ippolit GPL ?? I thought it was released as Public Domain code with absolutely zero restrictions.
What this means for example is that you can sell Robbolitto if you want - however you must acknowledge that it's a derivative work and provide the source code and you must make a free version available too.Don wrote:GPL requires any derivative work to be released FREE of charge with Source code too. However you are allowed to SELL it or value added services with it, but you still must make the free version available.M ANSARI wrote:Since when was Ippolit GPL ?? I thought it was released as Public Domain code with absolutely zero restrictions.
Red Hat Linux is a good example. It's open source but it's a commercial distribution which means you can buy it. If you buy it you get "support" and I nice printed handbook or manual or something. However, you can also go right the red hat site and download the distribution and burn your own CD if you want to. If you purchase they will send you the CD with documentation.
Well I was in Myanmar that time. I didn't carry my laptop in the backpack because the military regime don't like that. When we managed to get an internet cafe I didn't come to ccc because it took 10 minutes to open one page.Christopher Conkie wrote:Febuary 2011......
Why don't we just hex edit Houdini and make some cash out of these airheads?Alexander Schmidt wrote:Well I was in Myanmar that time. I didn't carry my laptop in the backpack because the military regime don't like that. When we managed to get an internet cafe I didn't come to ccc because it took 10 minutes to open one page.Christopher Conkie wrote:Febuary 2011......
I am wondering why some people buy this crap when it is known to be a clone...
Don,Don wrote:I think it's because now Houdini is trying to go commercial with a GPL program without releasing the source code or even admitting its origins.Albert Silver wrote:Forgive my confusion, but I do not understand this thread at all. That Houdini is an IPPO is very old news, so why is this being discussed here as if it were some sort of revelation?Don wrote:I just looked at this more carefully, I thought it was a hand picked example but it's right after playing "e4" in the opening. Not only do the nodes match exactly, but so does the PV. That is pretty damning evidence even by itself.
Do you have that version of Houdini somewhere that I can get a copy? I want to check this myself.
By the way, when I built the similarity tester I found that 2 of the closest matching programs was Robolitto and Houdini. The match percentage was higher than even 2 different releases of most programs.
If you can squeeze another 50 elo out of it your market base will be glad to make you rich.Christopher Conkie wrote:Why don't we just hex edit Houdini and make some cash out of these airheads?Alexander Schmidt wrote:Well I was in Myanmar that time. I didn't carry my laptop in the backpack because the military regime don't like that. When we managed to get an internet cafe I didn't come to ccc because it took 10 minutes to open one page.Christopher Conkie wrote:Febuary 2011......
I am wondering why some people buy this crap when it is known to be a clone...
Peritonitis 1.0 or Ruptured Appendix 1.0, can't quite decide.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Houdini#Death
Chris
Of course I give him the benefit of the doubt - but there is no doubt.tomgdrums wrote:Don,Don wrote:I think it's because now Houdini is trying to go commercial with a GPL program without releasing the source code or even admitting its origins.Albert Silver wrote:Forgive my confusion, but I do not understand this thread at all. That Houdini is an IPPO is very old news, so why is this being discussed here as if it were some sort of revelation?Don wrote:I just looked at this more carefully, I thought it was a hand picked example but it's right after playing "e4" in the opening. Not only do the nodes match exactly, but so does the PV. That is pretty damning evidence even by itself.
Do you have that version of Houdini somewhere that I can get a copy? I want to check this myself.
By the way, when I built the similarity tester I found that 2 of the closest matching programs was Robolitto and Houdini. The match percentage was higher than even 2 different releases of most programs.
What if you are wrong?
Houdart has come out and said (finally) that his program contains no licensed or GPL code at all.
And unlike others he has at least acknowledged where his inspiration came from.
I have been actually waiting for Houdart to make such a blanket statement. And because he has in such a public forum I am tending to believe him.
Will you not give him the benefit of the doubt?
Code: Select all
Houdini w32 1_CPU
build 2010-05-15
by Robert Houdart
position startpos moves g1f3 g8f6 d2d4 d7d5
go depth 1
info depth 1 seldepth 2 score cp -5 time 1 nodes 30 nps 30000 pv f3g5
info depth 1 seldepth 2 score cp 6 time 1 nodes 31 nps 31000 pv f3e5
info depth 1 seldepth 4 score cp 8 time 1 nodes 38 nps 38000 pv h2h3
info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 16 time 1 nodes 55 nps 55000 pv d1d3
info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 28 time 1 nodes 64 nps 64000 pv b1c3
info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 28 time 2 nodes 66 nps 33000 pv b1c3
bestmove b1c3 ponder NULL
fixme:console:CONSOLE_DefaultHandler Terminating process 21 on event 0
drd@i7:~/Desktop/robbolito$ ./RobboLito.exe
RobboLito 0.09 w32
Aug 4 2010 19:40:41
basic windows version by kranium, improved by sentinel
position startpos moves g1f3 g8f6 d2d4 d7d5
go depth 1
info depth 1 seldepth 2 score cp -9 time 0 nodes 30 nps 0 pv f3g5
info depth 1 seldepth 2 score cp 11 time 0 nodes 31 nps 0 pv f3e5
info depth 1 seldepth 4 score cp 13 time 0 nodes 38 nps 0 pv h2h3
info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 26 time 1 nodes 55 nps 55000 pv d1d3
info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 46 time 1 nodes 64 nps 64000 pv b1c3
info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 46 time 1 nodes 66 nps 66000 pv b1c3
bestmove b1c3 ponder NULL
Code: Select all
rd@i7:~/Desktop/robbolito$ ./RobboLito.exe
RobboLito 0.09 w32
Aug 4 2010 19:40:41
basic windows version by kranium, improved by sentinel
position startpos moves e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1b5 a7a6
go depth 1
info depth 1 seldepth 4 score cp 41 time 1 nodes 37 nps 37000 pv b5c6 d7c6 f3e5
info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 41 time 1 nodes 71 nps 71000 pv b5c6 d7c6 f3e5
bestmove b5c6 ponder d7c6
fixme:console:CONSOLE_DefaultHandler Terminating process 8 on event 0
drd@i7:~/Desktop/robbolito$ ./Houdini_w32_1CPU.exe
fixme:heap:HeapSetInformation (nil) 1 (nil) 0
Houdini w32 1_CPU
build 2010-05-15
by Robert Houdart
position startpos moves e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1b5 a7a6
go depth 1
info depth 1 seldepth 4 score cp 26 time 0 nodes 37 nps 0 pv b5c6 d7c6 f3e5
info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 26 time 0 nodes 71 nps 0 pv b5c6 d7c6 f3e5
bestmove b5c6 ponder d7c6Don wrote:Of course I give him the benefit of the doubt - but there is no doubt.tomgdrums wrote:Don,Don wrote:I think it's because now Houdini is trying to go commercial with a GPL program without releasing the source code or even admitting its origins.Albert Silver wrote:Forgive my confusion, but I do not understand this thread at all. That Houdini is an IPPO is very old news, so why is this being discussed here as if it were some sort of revelation?Don wrote:I just looked at this more carefully, I thought it was a hand picked example but it's right after playing "e4" in the opening. Not only do the nodes match exactly, but so does the PV. That is pretty damning evidence even by itself.
Do you have that version of Houdini somewhere that I can get a copy? I want to check this myself.
By the way, when I built the similarity tester I found that 2 of the closest matching programs was Robolitto and Houdini. The match percentage was higher than even 2 different releases of most programs.
What if you are wrong?
Houdart has come out and said (finally) that his program contains no licensed or GPL code at all.
And unlike others he has at least acknowledged where his inspiration came from.
I have been actually waiting for Houdart to make such a blanket statement. And because he has in such a public forum I am tending to believe him.
Will you not give him the benefit of the doubt?
I tried several positions and did one ply searches with both Robolitto and the Houdini build 2010-05-15 and the moves match very time so far (out of 7 positions I have tried near the opening) and the node counts either match perfectly, or are very close. That's almost impossible to see happen so consistently.
e.g.:
Here is an e-pawn opening which is more advanced and should excercise the evaluation a lot differently:Code: Select all
Houdini w32 1_CPU build 2010-05-15 by Robert Houdart position startpos moves g1f3 g8f6 d2d4 d7d5 go depth 1 info depth 1 seldepth 2 score cp -5 time 1 nodes 30 nps 30000 pv f3g5 info depth 1 seldepth 2 score cp 6 time 1 nodes 31 nps 31000 pv f3e5 info depth 1 seldepth 4 score cp 8 time 1 nodes 38 nps 38000 pv h2h3 info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 16 time 1 nodes 55 nps 55000 pv d1d3 info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 28 time 1 nodes 64 nps 64000 pv b1c3 info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 28 time 2 nodes 66 nps 33000 pv b1c3 bestmove b1c3 ponder NULL fixme:console:CONSOLE_DefaultHandler Terminating process 21 on event 0 drd@i7:~/Desktop/robbolito$ ./RobboLito.exe RobboLito 0.09 w32 Aug 4 2010 19:40:41 basic windows version by kranium, improved by sentinel position startpos moves g1f3 g8f6 d2d4 d7d5 go depth 1 info depth 1 seldepth 2 score cp -9 time 0 nodes 30 nps 0 pv f3g5 info depth 1 seldepth 2 score cp 11 time 0 nodes 31 nps 0 pv f3e5 info depth 1 seldepth 4 score cp 13 time 0 nodes 38 nps 0 pv h2h3 info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 26 time 1 nodes 55 nps 55000 pv d1d3 info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 46 time 1 nodes 64 nps 64000 pv b1c3 info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 46 time 1 nodes 66 nps 66000 pv b1c3 bestmove b1c3 ponder NULL
Code: Select all
rd@i7:~/Desktop/robbolito$ ./RobboLito.exe RobboLito 0.09 w32 Aug 4 2010 19:40:41 basic windows version by kranium, improved by sentinel position startpos moves e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1b5 a7a6 go depth 1 info depth 1 seldepth 4 score cp 41 time 1 nodes 37 nps 37000 pv b5c6 d7c6 f3e5 info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 41 time 1 nodes 71 nps 71000 pv b5c6 d7c6 f3e5 bestmove b5c6 ponder d7c6 fixme:console:CONSOLE_DefaultHandler Terminating process 8 on event 0 drd@i7:~/Desktop/robbolito$ ./Houdini_w32_1CPU.exe fixme:heap:HeapSetInformation (nil) 1 (nil) 0 Houdini w32 1_CPU build 2010-05-15 by Robert Houdart position startpos moves e2e4 e7e5 g1f3 b8c6 f1b5 a7a6 go depth 1 info depth 1 seldepth 4 score cp 26 time 0 nodes 37 nps 0 pv b5c6 d7c6 f3e5 info depth 1 seldepth 5 score cp 26 time 0 nodes 71 nps 0 pv b5c6 d7c6 f3e5 bestmove b5c6 ponder d7c6
I did not fish for these positions, these were the first 2 that I tried after the e4 position (where the node counts vary only slightly even after 8 ply.)
Don
Code: Select all
RobboLito eval/Houdini eval/Predicted/Diff
-21 -13 -13 0
-9 -5 -5 0
-8 -5 -5 0
-3 -1 -1 0
1 0 0 0
2 1 1 0
6 3 3 0
7 4 4 0
11 6 6 0
13 8 8 0
19 11 11 0
21 13 13 0
26 16 16 0
29 18 18 0
41 26 25 1
46 28 28 0
58 36 36 0