"Mate the Royal Couple"

Zach Wegner · Post by **Zach Wegner** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:19 pm

I was looking at Valentin Albillo's page recently: http://membres.lycos.fr/albillo/cmain.htm

There is a position there called "Mate the Royal Couple":
[d]3qk3/8/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - -

Ten years ago no engine found the mate, but now ZCT found a mate in 15 in just less than two days:

Code: Select all

&#91;20/49&#93;    43&#58;56&#58;58      +#15   1. e4 Qh4 2. Bb5+ Kf7 3. Qf3+ Qf6 4. Qxf6+
                                Kxf6 5. d4 Ke6 6. d5+ Ke5 7. Nc3 Kd6 8.
                                Bf4+ Ke7 9. d6+ Kf6 10. d7 Ke7 11. Bg5+
                                Kf7 12. Bc4+ Kg6 13. d8=Q Kh5 14. Be2+ Kg6
                                15. Qg8# &#40;124408741361&#41;

This is probably slow given the massive difference in hardware. Can any engine find a faster mate, or find the mate faster?

Jouni · Post by **Jouni** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:44 pm

This is well known mate in 11. Solved in about 1-2 hour by Ruffian and King 5 years ago. But too difficult to Chest!

Jouni

beachknight · Post by **beachknight** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:00 pm

Just after queens off the board, ie at move 5,
DF10 finds in few seconds a mate.

Uri Blass · Post by **Uri Blass** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:47 pm

Jouni wrote:This is well known mate in 11. Solved in about 1-2 hour by Ruffian and King 5 years ago. But too difficult to Chest!

Jouni

I believe that chest verified no mate in 11 but I am unsure about it.

It is only a question of time for chest to find if there is mate in 11

Uri

George Tsavdaris · Post by **George Tsavdaris** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:29 pm

Uri Blass wrote:
Jouni wrote:This is well known mate in 11. Solved in about 1-2 hour by Ruffian and King 5 years ago. But too difficult to Chest!
I believe that chest verified no mate in 11 but I am unsure about it.

In that case Ruffian 1.0.5 must have a bug.

Here is the post of Jouni 5 years ago:
Note that kN(kilonodes) of the below analysis does not make sense, since they are not increasing with time!?

---------------------------------------
Subject: Ruffian surprises again in Albillo "unsolved" !
From: Jouni Uski
E-mail: ..........
Message Number: 305265
Date: July 07, 2003 at 13:43:56

[D]3qk3/8/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w
Because CHEST is unable to solve I tried Ruffian 1.0.5 in P IV 2.4:

Analysis by Ruffian 1.0.5:

1.a3
+- (33.13) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
1.a4
+- (33.19) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
1.c4
+- (33.23) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
1.d3
+- (33.28) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
1.d4
+- (33.39) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
1.d4 Qd5
+- (33.15) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00
1.e4 Qd4
+- (33.22) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00
1.e4 Qd4 2.f3
+- (33.46) Depth: 3/5 00:00:00
1.e4 Qh4 2.Bb5+ Kf8 3.d3
+- (33.48) Depth: 4/6 00:00:00
1.e4 Qh4 2.Bb5+ Ke7 3.Qf3 Kd8
+- (33.47) Depth: 5/9 00:00:00
1.Nf3 Qe7 2.d4 Qb4+ 3.c3 Qc4
+- (33.56) Depth: 5/9 00:00:00
1.d4 Qa5+ 2.c3 Qd5 3.Qa4+ Kd8 4.Bf4
+- (33.61) Depth: 5/9 00:00:00
1.d4 Qh4 2.Nf3 Qe4 3.Nc3 Qg4
+- (33.66) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 23kN
1.e4 Qa5 2.f4 Kf8 3.Kf2 Ke8
+- (33.77) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 37kN
1.e4 Qh4 2.Nc3 Qg5 3.d4 Qh4 4.Qf3
+- (34.02) Depth: 7/16 00:00:00 108kN
1.e4 Qa5 2.Nc3 Kd8 3.d4 Qb4 4.a3 Qd6
+- (34.11) Depth: 8/18 00:00:00 235kN
1.e4 Qh4 2.Nc3 Ke7 3.g3 Qh7 4.d4 Kf8 5.Qf3+ Ke8
+- (34.24) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 504kN
1.e4 Qh4 2.Nc3 Kd8 3.d4 Ke8 4.Bb5+ Kd8 5.e5 Kc8 6.Ba6+ Kd8
+- (34.46) Depth: 10/23 00:00:01 1268kN
1.e4 Qh4 2.Nc3 Kd8 3.d4 Qf6 4.e5 Qg6 5.Nf3 Qe6 6.Bg5+ Ke8
+- (34.50) Depth: 11/26 00:00:02 2351kN
1.e4
+- (34.85) Depth: 12/28 00:00:07 8078kN
1.e4 Qh4 2.Nc3 Kd8 3.d4 Kc8 4.Ba6+ Kd8 5.Nh3 Qh7 6.Bg5+ Ke8 7.Bb5+ Kf8 8.Qf3+
Kg8
+- (35.10) Depth: 12/30 00:00:12 14072kN
1.e4 Qh4 2.Nc3 Kd8 3.d4 Kc8 4.Ba6+ Kd8 5.Nh3 Qh7 6.Bg5+ Ke8 7.Bb5+ Kf8 8.Qg4 Kg8
+- (35.38) Depth: 13/32 00:00:23 26471kN
1.e4
+- (35.73) Depth: 14/36 00:00:53 62743kN
1.e4 Qh4 2.Nc3 Kf8 3.Qf3+ Kg7 4.d4 Qh7 5.Nd5 Qg6 6.Qf4 Qe6 7.Qh4
+- (35.88) Depth: 14/38 00:01:17 91740kN
1.e4
+- (36.23) Depth: 15/40 00:01:54 137404kN
1.e4 Qh4 2.Nc3 Kd8 3.Qf3 Qh8 4.Bb5 Kc8 5.Qf7 Qd4 6.Nd5 Qxe4+ 7.Ne2 Qxd5 8.Qxd5
Kb8 9.Bc6
+- (40.96) Depth: 15/40 00:04:49 384031kN
1.e4
+- (41.31) Depth: 16/40 00:07:11 587435kN
1.e4 Qa5 2.Nc3 Kd8 3.Nd5 Kc8 4.Qg4+ Kb8 5.Qg8+ Kb7 6.Qf7+ Kb8 7.b4 Qd8 8.Ba6 Qb6
9.b5 Qxa6 10.Qc7+ Ka8 11.bxa6
+- (42.12) Depth: 16/42 00:15:12 1271487kN
1.e4
+- (42.47) Depth: 17/44 00:21:47 1831433kN
1.e4 Qa5 2.Nc3 Kf8 3.Qf3+ Kg7 4.Qg4+ Kf6 5.d4 Qb4 6.Nf3 Ke7 7.Ne5 Qd6 8.Qh4+ Qf6
9.Qh7+ Kf8 10.Bh6+ Qg7 11.Qxg7+ Ke8 12.Qd7#
+- (#12) Depth: 17/44 00:47:46 4090099kN
1.e4 Qa5 2.Nc3 Kf8 3.Qf3+ Kg7 4.Qg4+ Kf6 5.d4 Qb4 6.Qg8 Ke7 7.Bb5 Qxd4 8.Bg5+
Kd6 9.Qd8+ Kc5 10.Be7+ Qd6 11.Qxd6#
+- (#11) Depth: 18/48 01:37:29 4157896kN
1.e4 Qa5 2.Nc3 Kf8 3.Qf3+ Kg7 4.Qg4+ Kf6 5.d4 Qb4 6.Qg8 Ke7 7.Bb5 Qxd4 8.Bg5+
Kd6 9.Qd8+ Kc5 10.Be7+ Qd6 11.Qxd6#
+- (#11) Depth: 19/48 01:49:41 927678kN
1.e4 Qa5 2.Nc3 Kf8 3.Qf3+ Kg7 4.Qg4+ Kf6 5.d4 Qb4 6.Qg8 Ke7 7.Bb5 Qxd4 8.Bg5+
Kd6 9.Qd8+ Kc5 10.Be7+ Qd6 11.Qxd6#
+- (#11) Depth: 20/48 02:10:09 2723106kN
1.e4 Qa5 2.Nc3 Kf8 3.Qf3+ Kg7 4.Qg4+ Kf6 5.d4 Qb4 6.Qg8 Ke7 7.Bb5 Qxd4 8.Bg5+
Kd6 9.Qd8+ Kc5 10.Be7+ Qd6 11.Qxd6#
+- (#11) Depth: 21/48 03:09:24 3646084kN
1.e4 Qa5 2.Nc3 Kf8 3.Qf3+ Kg7 4.Qg4+ Kf6 5.d4 Qb4 6.Qg8 Ke7 7.Bb5 Qxd4 8.Bg5+
Kd6 9.Qd8+ Kc5 10.Be7+ Qd6 11.Qxd6#
+- (#11) Depth: 22/48 04:56:27 172728kN

Jouni

AdminX · Post by **AdminX** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:10 pm

[d]3qk3/8/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1

Analysis by Zappa Mexico II:

1.e4 Qd4 2.Bb5+ Ke7 3.Qh5 Qxe4+ 4.Ne2 Kf6 5.d4 Qf5 6.Qh8+ Kf7 7.Qe8+ Kg7 8.Bc4 Qa5+ 9.Kf1 Qa8 10.Qf7+ Kh8 11.Qh5+ Kg7 12.Qh6#
+- (21.17) Depth: 9/23 00:00:03 611kN
+- (#12) Depth: 18/51 00:04:27 772mN

kgburcham · Post by **kgburcham** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:00 am

[D] 3qk3/8/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - -

Zappa Mexico II
Hash 1024

15/49 2:05 +M13 1.e4 Qf6 2.Qh5+ Qf7 3.Qe5+ Qe7 4.Qb8+ Kd7 5.Bb5+ Ke6 6.Qg8+ Kd6 7.Nc3 Qf6 8.Qe8 Kc7 9.Nd5+ Kb7 10.Nxf6 Kb6 11.Qc6+ Ka7 12.Qc7+ Ka8 13.Bc6+ (330.364.889) 2637
16/51 2:30 +M12 1.e4 Qf6 2.Qh5+ Qf7 3.Qe5+ Qe7 4.Qb8+ Kd7 5.e5 Ke6 6.d4 Kd7 7.Bb5+ Ke6 8.Qc8+ Kf7 9.Bc4+ Kg6 10.Qg4+ Qg5 11.Qxg5+ Kh7 12.Qh6+ (398.459.464) 2645
17/51 2:42 +M12 1.e4 Qf6 2.Qh5+ Qf7 3.Qe5+ Qe7 4.Qb8+ Kd7 5.e5 Ke6 6.d4 Kd7 7.Bb5+ Ke6 8.Qc8+ Kf7 9.Bc4+ Kg6 10.Qg4+ Qg5 11.Qxg5+ Kh7 12.Qh6+ (427.770.437) 2637
18/51 3:17 +M12 1.e4 Qf6 2.Qh5+ Qf7 3.Qe5+ Qe7 4.Qb8+ Kd7 5.e5 Ke6 6.d4 Kd7 7.Bb5+ Ke6 8.Qc8+ Kf7 9.Bc4+ Kg6 10.Qg4+ Qg5 11.Qxg5+ Kh7 12.Qh6+ (519.674.348) 2631

AdminX · Post by **AdminX** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:08 am

I guess it's safe to say our friend Rybka III will solve this in under a minute on a Quad.

Q6700 results: Best time by Zappa

[d]3qk3/8/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1

Analysis by Zappa Mexico II:

1.e4 Qg5 2.d4 Qg6 3.Qf3 Ke7 4.Nc3 Qf7 5.Qg3 Kd7 6.Nd5 Kc6 7.Qb3 Qxf2+ 8.Kxf2 Kd7 9.Qb7+ Kd8 10.Qc7+ Ke8 11.Qe7#
+- (20.57) Depth: 8/22 00:00:03 268kN
+- (#11) Depth: 19/55 00:09:25 1663mN

Analysis by HIARCS 12 MP:

1.e4 Qg5 2.d4 Qg6 3.Qf3 Kd7 4.Bb5+ Kc7 5.Qg3+ Qxg3 6.hxg3 Kb6 7.Rh6+ Kb7 8.Rh7+ Kb8 9.Bf4+ Kc8 10.Bd6
+- (45.71) Depth: 10/27 00:00:00 1045kN
+- (#11) Depth: 19/49 00:10:43 1914mN

Uri Blass · Post by **Uri Blass** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:21 am

I guess that I was wrong and there is mate in 11.
programs may have bug of showing shorter mate than possible but after seeing some programs that show the mate in 11 it seems that there is a mate in 11.

Note that chest shows horrible order of moves in the following position
It search all the pawn moves and even Nh3 and Na3 before searching Nc3
that is clearly more logical.

Note that stupid checks like Qf6+ Qf7+ are searched earlier than Nc3.

I guess that an improvement in the order of moves can help chest to be faster in long mate problems and I guess that today chest may need some weeks to solve the mate in 11.

New game, Friend mode
[D]8/4k3/6q1/8/3PP3/5Q2/PPP2PPP/RNB1KBNR w - - 0 1

Analysis by ChestUCI Ver.4.2:

4.Nb1-c3
+- (#8) Depth: 8 00:19:46 396797kN
4.Bf1-b5
+- (#8) Depth: 8 00:28:10 583116kN
4.Bf1-b5 Qg6-f6 5.Qf3-h5 Qf6xd4 6.Bc1-g5+ Ke7-f8 7.Nb1-c3 Qd4-d5 8.Bg5-h6+ Kf8-e7 9.Nc3xd5+ Ke7-e6 10.Qh5-f5+ Ke6-d6 11.Bh6-f8#
+- (#8) Depth: 8/8 00:33:00 708437kN
4.Nb1-c3 Qg6-e6 5.Nc3-d5+ Ke7-d7 6.Bf1-e2 Qe6-g6 7.Qf3-f4 Qg6-d6 8.Be2-b5+ Kd7-c8 9.Qf4xd6 Kc8-b7 10.Qd6-b6+ Kb7-c8 11.Nd5-e7#
+- (#8) Depth: 8/8 00:33:00 708437kN

(so k, 01.08.2008)

Uri

hMx · Post by **hMx** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:33 pm

Uri Blass wrote: Note that chest shows horrible order of moves in the following position
It search all the pawn moves and even Nh3 and Na3 before searching Nc3
that is clearly more logical.

Note that stupid checks like Qf6+ Qf7+ are searched earlier than Nc3.

I guess that an improvement in the order of moves can help chest to be faster in long mate problems and I guess that today chest may need some weeks to solve the mate in 11.

Uri

Sorting the moves of the attacker may help, or may not.
In most cases there is no solution, all moves must be searched
anyway, and sorting did not help this, but did cost some time.

This changes, when solutions are not so rare, so that a significant fraction of the attacker subjobs can be solved.
But how should Chest know that before?

Also, what is a "good" attacker move? Here we would want something very similar to the "eval" of playing programs, right?
I did not not want to go into that direction.

Clearly, Chest could be improved, here, but I have no idea how often it would pay off.

Cheers, Heiner

"Mate the Royal Couple"

"Mate the Royal Couple"

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