Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb »

[Event "Computer Schach Partie"]
[Date "2008.08.03"]
[White "Danasah 2.85k"]
[Black "Chess System Tal II"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[Opening "Hodgson Attack"]
[Variation "2...f6"]
[TimeControl "2400+20"]

1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 f6 3.Bh4 c6 4.Bg3 {+0.09/14 118} Qb6 5.b3 {+0.09/15 114} Qa5+ 6.c3
{+0.12/14 110} Bg4 7.Nf3 {+0.32/15 108} Nd7 8.h3 {+0.29/15 103} Bf5 9.b4 {+0.31/16 100}
Qd8 10.e3 {+0.30/15 97} e6 11.Nbd2 {+0.30/14 93} Nh6 12.Nh4 {+0.31/13 91} e5
13.dxe5 {+0.36/13 88} fxe5 14.Nxf5 {+0.13/14 85} Nxf5 15.Bh2 {+0.08/15 82} e4 16.Rc1
{+0.04/13 80} a5 17.b5 {+0.01/13 77} Bc5 18.bxc6 {+0.33/14 75} bxc6 19.Qa4 {+0.32/14 73}
Qf6 20.c4 {+0.18/13 71}


[D]r3k2r/3n2pp/2p2q2/p1bp1n2/Q1P1p3/4P2P/P2N1PPB/2R1KB1R b Kkq - 0 20


20....Bxe3 21.fxe3 {+1.75/12 69} Qh4+ 22.g3 {+2.70/14 67} Nxg3
23.Bxg3 {+2.70/14 65} Qxg3+ 24.Kd1 {+3.17/12 63} O-O 25.Qxc6 {+3.21/13 61} Rad8 26.cxd5
{+2.99/12 60} Kh8 27.Bc4 {+2.63/13 58} Qxe3 28.Re1 {+2.36/13 56} Qxh3 1-0

A completely unsound sacrifice of the bishop,just a wild attack at the king side without searching deep into the variation....
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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Ovyron
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Re: Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by Ovyron »

That's when the engine jumps over the line from "extreme aggressiveness" to "extreme craziness". ;)
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S.Taylor
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Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by S.Taylor »

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:[Event "Computer Schach Partie"]
[Date "2008.08.03"]
[White "Danasah 2.85k"]
[Black "Chess System Tal II"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[Opening "Hodgson Attack"]
[Variation "2...f6"]
[TimeControl "2400+20"]

1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 f6 3.Bh4 c6 4.Bg3 {+0.09/14 118} Qb6 5.b3 {+0.09/15 114} Qa5+ 6.c3
{+0.12/14 110} Bg4 7.Nf3 {+0.32/15 108} Nd7 8.h3 {+0.29/15 103} Bf5 9.b4 {+0.31/16 100}
Qd8 10.e3 {+0.30/15 97} e6 11.Nbd2 {+0.30/14 93} Nh6 12.Nh4 {+0.31/13 91} e5
13.dxe5 {+0.36/13 88} fxe5 14.Nxf5 {+0.13/14 85} Nxf5 15.Bh2 {+0.08/15 82} e4 16.Rc1
{+0.04/13 80} a5 17.b5 {+0.01/13 77} Bc5 18.bxc6 {+0.33/14 75} bxc6 19.Qa4 {+0.32/14 73}
Qf6 20.c4 {+0.18/13 71}


[D]r3k2r/3n2pp/2p2q2/p1bp1n2/Q1P1p3/4P2P/P2N1PPB/2R1KB1R b Kkq - 0 20


20....Bxe3 21.fxe3 {+1.75/12 69} Qh4+ 22.g3 {+2.70/14 67} Nxg3
23.Bxg3 {+2.70/14 65} Qxg3+ 24.Kd1 {+3.17/12 63} O-O 25.Qxc6 {+3.21/13 61} Rad8 26.cxd5
{+2.99/12 60} Kh8 27.Bc4 {+2.63/13 58} Qxe3 28.Re1 {+2.36/13 56} Qxh3 1-0

A completely unsound sacrifice of the bishop,just a wild attack at the king side without searching deep into the variation....
I would be interested to see Rybka 3's best move, before 20....Bxe3 as well as how Rybka follows up after 21.fxe3.
I haven't examined this "line" of play very well, but I see it DOES open up lines and might be an idea worth looking into in a game. However I'm not claiming it ISN'T plain wild and crazy and unsound. Just that it might be good as a "candidate" move, worthy of looking at.
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Eraserheads
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Re: Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by Eraserheads »

But that's what makes chess system tal special. Against an average human it would have probably won.. Its gambling nature is no doubt very attractive.
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pedrox
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Re: Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by pedrox »

[d]r3k2r/3n2pp/2p2q2/p1bp1n2/Q1P1p3/4P2P/P2N1PPB/2R1KB1R b Kkq - 0 1

Analysis by Fritz 10:

1. -+ (-1.62): 20...0-0 21.cxd5 Bxe3 22.fxe3 Nxe3 23.Bg3 Qg6 24.Nxe4 cxd5 25.Bf2 Nxg2+ 26.Bxg2 Qxg2 27.Rg1 Qxe4+ 28.Qxe4 dxe4
2. µ (-1.40): 20...Nb6 21.Qb3 0-0 22.cxd5 Bb4 23.dxc6+ Kh8 24.Be2 Nd4 25.exd4
3. µ (-1.15): 20...Nxe3 21.cxd5 Nxd5 22.Nxe4 Qh6 23.Qc2 Bb4+ 24.Kd1 0-0 25.Qxc6 N7f6 26.Nxf6+ Nxf6 27.Kc2 Rac8
4. µ (-0.87): 20...Bb4 21.cxd5 0-0 22.Rxc6 Qh4 23.g3 Qd8 24.a3 Bxd2+ 25.Kxd2 Ne5 26.Rc5 Nd6
5. ³ (-0.47): 20...Bxe3 21.fxe3 0-0 22.Qa3 Ne5 23.g4 Nd3+ 24.Bxd3 Nxe3 25.Bg1 Ng2+

In depth 16, Fritz gives even slight advantage for black doing Bxe3, but if we force the move will have advantage for white after a series of moves.
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F. Bluemers
Posts: 868
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Location: Nederland

Re: Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by F. Bluemers »

pedrox wrote:[d]r3k2r/3n2pp/2p2q2/p1bp1n2/Q1P1p3/4P2P/P2N1PPB/2R1KB1R b Kkq - 0 1

Analysis by Fritz 10:

1. -+ (-1.62): 20...0-0 21.cxd5 Bxe3 22.fxe3 Nxe3 23.Bg3 Qg6 24.Nxe4 cxd5 25.Bf2 Nxg2+ 26.Bxg2 Qxg2 27.Rg1 Qxe4+ 28.Qxe4 dxe4
2. µ (-1.40): 20...Nb6 21.Qb3 0-0 22.cxd5 Bb4 23.dxc6+ Kh8 24.Be2 Nd4 25.exd4
3. µ (-1.15): 20...Nxe3 21.cxd5 Nxd5 22.Nxe4 Qh6 23.Qc2 Bb4+ 24.Kd1 0-0 25.Qxc6 N7f6 26.Nxf6+ Nxf6 27.Kc2 Rac8
4. µ (-0.87): 20...Bb4 21.cxd5 0-0 22.Rxc6 Qh4 23.g3 Qd8 24.a3 Bxd2+ 25.Kxd2 Ne5 26.Rc5 Nd6
5. ³ (-0.47): 20...Bxe3 21.fxe3 0-0 22.Qa3 Ne5 23.g4 Nd3+ 24.Bxd3 Nxe3 25.Bg1 Ng2+

(, 03.08.2008)
shredder 9 likes to sack its knight on e3 for a long time,till it finds Bb4.

Code: Select all

Shredder 9 UCI
 10/28	 0:01 	+0.40 	1...Pb6 2.Db3 a4 3.Db1 Dh4 4.g3 (831.095) 665
 10/32	 0:02 	+0.41++	1...Pxe3 (1.522.035) 682
 10/32	 0:02 	+0.50 	1...Pxe3 2.cxd5 Pxf1 3.Txf1 O-O 4.Dxc6 Lxf2+ 5.Ke2 e3 6.Dxf6 Pxf6 7.Tc5 Tad8 (1.931.358) 691
 11/34	 0:03 	+0.55 	1...Pxe3 2.cxd5 Pxf1 3.Txf1 O-O 4.Dxc6 Lxf2+ 5.Ke2 e3 6.Dxf6 Pxf6 7.Tc5 Tad8 8.Lc7 (2.537.629) 680
 12/39	 0:07 	+0.80++	1...Pxe3 2.cxd5 (5.016.395) 688
 12/39	 0:08 	+0.88 	1...Pxe3 2.cxd5 Pxd5 3.Pxe4 Dh6 4.Kd1 O-O 5.Pxc5 Txf2 6.Pe4 Pe3+ 7.Ke1 Txf1+ 8.Txf1 Pxf1 (5.622.007) 691
 13/40	 0:14 	+0.63--	1...Pxe3 2.cxd5 (10.118.818) 701
 13/40	 0:15 	+0.63 	1...Pxe3 2.cxd5 Pxd5 3.Pxe4 Dh6 4.f4 P7b6 (10.789.560) 702
 14/36	 0:30 	+0.88++	1...Pxe3 2.cxd5 (21.303.278) 706
 14/43	 0:40 	+0.88 	1...Pxe3 2.fxe3 (29.253.688) 714
 15/48	 1:22 	+0.69 	1...Pxe3 2.fxe3 Lxe3 3.Kd1 Lxd2 4.Kxd2 O-O 5.cxd5 e3+ 6.Kd1 Db2 7.Dc2 Dd4+ 8.Ke1 cxd5 9.Ld3 Dh4+ 10.g3 Dxh3 11.Lxh7+ Dxh7 12.Dxh7+ Kxh7 (58.885.488) 714
 16/47	 3:10 	+0.94++	1...Pxe3 2.fxe3 (135.547.284) 709
 16/49	 3:26 	+0.94 	1...Pxe3 2.fxe3 Lxe3 3.Kd1 O-O 4.cxd5 Lxd2 5.Kxd2 e3+ 6.Kd1 Db2 7.Dc2 Dd4+ 8.Ke1 cxd5 9.Ld3 Tf2 10.Le2 (147.152.013) 711
 16/49	 4:17 	+0.95++	1...Lb4 (182.833.759) 710
 16/49	 4:31 	+0.95 	1...Lb4 2.cxd5 O-O 3.dxc6 (192.654.957) 710
 17/42	 6:23 	+1.20++	1...Lb4 2.cxd5 (271.434.913) 707
 17/49	 7:17 	+1.20 	1...Lb4 2.cxd5 O-O 3.Txc6 (310.211.147) 709
beste zet: Lc5-b4  tijd: 12:59.896 min  n/s: 714.549  CPU 99.8%   n/s(1CPU): 715.980   nodes: 557.262.971
enforcing 1..Bc5-c4 2 c4d5 o-o :

Code: Select all

Shredder 9 UCI
 10/36	 0:01 	+0.17 	3.dxc6 Pb6 4.Db3+ Kh8 5.Tc2 Pe7 6.Lf4 Pxc6 7.Db2 De6 8.Le2 (741.590) 679
 11/34	 0:02 	-0.01 	3.dxc6 Pb6 4.Db3+ Kh8 5.Tc2 Tad8 6.c7 Td3 7.Le5 Dxe5 8.Lxd3 exd3 (1.495.164) 684
 12/30	 0:03 	-0.26--	3.dxc6 Pb6 (2.290.675) 676
 12/31	 0:04 	-0.76--	3.dxc6 Pb6 (2.888.264) 685
 12/36	 0:05 	-0.76 	3.dxc6 Pb6 4.Db3+ Kh8 5.Tc2 Tad8 6.a3 (4.046.477) 704
 12/38	 0:07 	-0.75++	3.Txc6 (5.532.970) 710
 12/38	 0:08 	-0.41 	3.Txc6 Da1+ 4.Dd1 Lxd2+ 5.Kxd2 Dxa2+ (6.394.725) 719
 13/37	 0:14 	-0.54 	3.Txc6 Pd6 4.Lf4 Pe5 5.Tb6 Pg6 6.Txd6 Lxd6 7.Lxd6 Dxd6 8.Dxe4 Tae8 9.Pc4 (10.115.254) 714
 14/40	 0:24 	-0.78 	3.Txc6 Pd6 4.Lf4 Pe5 5.Txd6 (17.526.957) 714
 14/45	 0:41 	-0.77++	3.dxc6 (30.288.775) 727
 14/45	 0:46 	-0.77 	3.dxc6 Pb6 4.Db3+ Kh8 5.Tc2 Tad8 6.c7 Td3 7.Lxd3 Da1+ 8.Ke2 exd3+ 9.Dxd3 Dxh1 10.Le5 Dxg2 (33.890.509) 721
 15/41	 1:12 	-1.02--	3.dxc6 Pb6 (50.847.009) 703
 15/48	 1:59 	-1.52--	3.dxc6 Pb6 (85.052.970) 711
 15/48	 3:29 	-2.46 	3.dxc6 Kh8 4.Le2 Pxe3 5.fxe3 Df2+ 6.Kd1 Pb6 7.Db5 Tad8 8.Tc2 Dxe3 9.Kc1 Td5 10.Da6 (153.304.864) 732
 15/48	 3:33 	-2.45++	3.Txc6 (156.505.557) 732
 15/48	 3:36 	-2.10++	3.Txc6 (159.135.170) 734
 15/48	 3:51 	-0.90 	3.Txc6 Pd6 4.Lf4 Pe5 5.Dc2 Pxc6 6.dxc6 Tad8 7.c7 Td7 (169.858.187) 733
 16/43	 4:38 	-0.80 	3.Txc6 Pd6 4.Lf4 Pe5 5.Tc1 Pg6 6.Lg3 Pf5 7.Dc6 Lxd2+ 8.Kxd2 Db2+ 9.Tc2 Db4+ (202.701.825) 726
 17/46	 5:57 	-1.05--	3.Txc6 Pd6 (257.059.368) 718
 17/47	 7:51 	-1.46 	3.Txc6 Pd6 4.Lf4 Pe5 5.Le2 Pxc6 6.dxc6 g5 7.Lg3 Pf5 8.O-O Lxd2
eval fluctuates a lot.
a nice position
Best
Fonzy
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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb »

Thank you all for the nice comments,I'll post more if I have something interesting....
BTW,CSTII was showing +1.14 for the 20....Bxe3 8-)
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb »

Ovyron wrote:That's when the engine jumps over the line from "extreme aggressiveness" to "extreme craziness". ;)
:lol:
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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emerson4301972

Re: Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by emerson4301972 »

Ovyron wrote:That's when the engine jumps over the line from "extreme aggressiveness" to "extreme craziness". ;)
In chess, I thought you need craziness to reach the top. hehe :D
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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Sometimes Chess System Tal II bluffs too much....

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb »

emerson4301972 wrote:
Ovyron wrote:That's when the engine jumps over the line from "extreme aggressiveness" to "extreme craziness". ;)
In chess, I thought you need craziness to reach the top. hehe :D
It depends on the opponent you're playing against and then you decide the dose of craziness to put in action :lol:
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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