Does any engine see Bc3 in this position?

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Uri
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Does any engine see Bc3 in this position?

Post by Uri »

Does any engine see Bc3 in this position?

[d] rb6/1p1qrpk1/pPn1p1p1/P1Pp1n1p/B2P3P/3Q1NP1/3BRP2/2R3K1 w - - 0 33

This position is from the game in which Kasparov crushed Deep Blue by demonstrating his much better understanding of mobility. In chess, when the pawns advance, they make room for the minor and heavy pieces behind them. Kasparov teaches that since chess is limited to 64 squares, the more 'territory' you control in the enemy camp the more space your pieces will have to operate in and the less space your opponent will have for his pieces.

[Event "1996"]
[Date "Match 1996"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kasparov"]
[Black "Deep Blue "]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D30"]

1. Nf3 d5 2. d4 c6 3. c4 e6 4. Nbd2 Nf6 5. e3 c5 6. b3 Nc6 7. Bb2 cxd4 8. exd4 Be7 9. Rc1 O-O 10. Bd3 Bd7 11. O-O Nh5 12. Re1 Nf4 13. Bb1 Bd6 14. g3 Ng6 15. Ne5 Rc8 16. Nxd7 Qxd7 17. Nf3 Bb4 18.Re3 Rfd8 19. h4 Nge7 20. a3 Ba5 21. b4 Bc7 22. c5 Re8 23. Qd3 g6 24. Re2 Nf5 25. Bc3 h5 26. b5 Nce7 27. Bd2 Kg7 28. a4 Ra8 29. a5 a6 30. b6 Bb8 31. Bc2 Nc6
32. Ba4 Re7 33. Bc3 Ne5 34. dxe5 Qxa4 35. Nd4 Nxd4 36. Qxd4 Qd7 37. Bd2 Re8 38. Bg5 Rc8 39. Bf6+ Kh7 40. c6 bxc6 41. Qc5 Kh6 42. Rb2 Qb7 43. Rb4 1-0
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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12792
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Does any engine see Bc3 in this position?

Post by Dann Corbit »

Uri wrote:Does any engine see Bc3 in this position?

[d] rb6/1p1qrpk1/pPn1p1p1/P1Pp1n1p/B2P3P/3Q1NP1/3BRP2/2R3K1 w - - 0 33

This position is from the game in which Kasparov crushed Deep Blue by demonstrating his much better understanding of mobility. In chess, when the pawns advance, they make room for the minor and heavy pieces behind them. Kasparov teaches that since chess is limited to 64 squares, the more 'territory' you control in the enemy camp the more space your pieces will have to operate in and the less space your opponent will have for his pieces.

[Event "1996"]
[Date "Match 1996"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kasparov"]
[Black "Deep Blue "]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D30"]

1. Nf3 d5 2. d4 c6 3. c4 e6 4. Nbd2 Nf6 5. e3 c5 6. b3 Nc6 7. Bb2 cxd4 8. exd4 Be7 9. Rc1 O-O 10. Bd3 Bd7 11. O-O Nh5 12. Re1 Nf4 13. Bb1 Bd6 14. g3 Ng6 15. Ne5 Rc8 16. Nxd7 Qxd7 17. Nf3 Bb4 18.Re3 Rfd8 19. h4 Nge7 20. a3 Ba5 21. b4 Bc7 22. c5 Re8 23. Qd3 g6 24. Re2 Nf5 25. Bc3 h5 26. b5 Nce7 27. Bd2 Kg7 28. a4 Ra8 29. a5 a6 30. b6 Bb8 31. Bc2 Nc6
32. Ba4 Re7 33. Bc3 Ne5 34. dxe5 Qxa4 35. Nd4 Nxd4 36. Qxd4 Qd7 37. Bd2 Re8 38. Bg5 Rc8 39. Bf6+ Kh7 40. c6 bxc6 41. Qc5 Kh6 42. Rb2 Qb7 43. Rb4 1-0

Code: Select all

Analysis from Q:\epd\sub\bc3.epd   
9/5/2008 3:12:35 PM Level: Tournament Game in 5 Minutes
Analyzing engine: Baronx64

1) Bc3;                 
    Searching move: Bd2-c3
    Best move (Baronx64): Bd2-c3
    identical moves! Found in: 00:37
      2	00:05	         692	133	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6
      2	00:05	         893	172	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6
      3	00:05	       1.140	219	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6 Ba4xc6
      3	00:05	       1.786	344	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6 Ba4xc6
      4	00:05	       3.020	581	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6 Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6
      4	00:05	       3.707	714	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6 Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6
      5	00:05	       8.497	1.637	+0.76	Bd2-g5 (f7-f6) (Bg5-e3) (Re7-e8) (Ba4xc6) (Qd7xc6)
      5	00:05	       8.497	1.637	+0.76	Bd2-g5 f7-f6 Bg5-e3 Re7-e8 Ba4xc6 (Qd7xc6)
      5	00:05	      12.381	2.385	+0.96	Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6 Bd2-e3 f7-f6 Qd3-d2
      5	00:05	      19.832	3.821	+1.03	Rc1-e1 f7-f6 Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6 (Bd2-c1)
      5	00:05	      24.595	4.738	+1.03	Rc1-e1 f7-f6 Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6 (Bd2-c1)
      6	00:05	      31.708	6.109	+0.99	Rc1-e1 f7-f6 Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6 Bd2-c1 Kg7-h7
      6	00:05	      44.168	8.510	+1.38	Bd2-g5 (f7-f6) (Ba4xc6) (Qd7xc6) (Bg5xf6) (Kg7xf6) (Rc1-e1)
      6	00:05	      59.943	11.549	+1.54	Bd2-g5 Re7-e8 Rc1-e1 Re8-f8 Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6
      6	00:05	      64.968	12.517	+1.54	Bd2-g5 Re7-e8 Rc1-e1 Re8-f8 Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6
      7	00:05	     102.074	19.667	+0.84	Bd2-g5 (f7-f6) (Bg5-e3) (Re7-e8) (Ba4xc6) (Qd7xc6) (Rc1-e1)
      7	00:05	     102.074	19.667	+0.84	Bd2-g5 f7-f6 Bg5-e3 Re7-e8 Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6 Rc1-e1
      7	00:05	     135.723	26.150	+0.87	Ba4xc6 Qd7xc6 Bd2-e3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-h7 Be3-c1
      7	00:05	     200.178	36.729	+0.90	Qd3-a3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-h7 Bd2-c1 Re7-e8 Ba4xc6 (Qd7xc6)
      7	00:05	     247.371	45.389	+0.98	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Bc2xf5 Qd7xf5 Re2-e1
      7	00:05	     293.636	51.515	+0.98	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Bc2xf5 Qd7xf5 Re2-e1
      8	00:05	     354.311	62.159	+1.06	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Re7-e8 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Qc3-d3 e5-e4
      8	00:05	     455.964	76.375	+1.06	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Re7-e8 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Qc3-d3 e5-e4
      9	00:06	     571.544	95.736	+1.15	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-h7 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Bc2xf5 Qd7xf5 Bd2-f4 (Qf5-h3)
      9	00:06	     760.588	117.374	+1.15	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-h7 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Bc2xf5 Qd7xf5 Bd2-f4 (Qf5-h3)
     10	00:06	   1.004.802	148.859	+1.09	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-g8 Bd2-c1 Re7-e8 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Qc3-d3 e5-e4
     10	00:07	   1.362.534	180.947	+1.09	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-g8 Bd2-c1 Re7-e8 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Qc3-d3 e5-e4
     11	00:07	   1.687.908	209.417	+1.07	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-g8 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Bc2xf5 Qd7xf5 Bd2-h6 Qf5-h3 Qc3-b3
     11	00:09	   2.522.883	269.538	+1.07	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-g8 Ba4-c2 e6-e5 Bc2xf5 Qd7xf5 Bd2-h6 Qf5-h3 Qc3-b3
     12	00:12	   3.989.537	326.743	+1.02	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Re7-e8 Bd2-c1 Kg7-h7 Qc3-d2 Kh7-g8 Qd2-d3 Kg8-h7 (Qd3-c3) (Qd7-c8) (Ba4-c2) (e6-e5) (Qc3-d3)
     12	00:17	   6.796.523	396.298	+1.02	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Re7-e8 Bd2-c1 Kg7-h7 Qc3-d2 Kh7-g8 Qd2-d3 Kg8-h7 (Qd3-c3) (Qd7-c8) (Ba4-c2) (e6-e5) (Qc3-d3)
     13	00:20	   8.503.668	419.313	+1.02	Qd3-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Re7-e8 Bd2-c1 Kg7-h7 Qc3-d2 Kh7-g8 Qd2-d3 Kg8-h7 (Qd3-c3) (Qd7-c8) (Ba4-c2) (e6-e5) (Qc3-d3)
     13	00:37	  18.063.796	485.977	+1.03	Bd2-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-h7 Ba4-c2 (Qd7-c8) (Qd3-d2) (Nf5-h6) (Bc3-b2) (Nh6-g4) (Qd2-c3) (Qc8-d7) (Bb2-c1)
     13	00:37	  18.265.698	487.865	+1.03	Bd2-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-h7 Ba4-c2 (Qd7-c8) (Qd3-d2) (Nf5-h6) (Bc3-b2) (Nh6-g4) (Qd2-c3) (Qc8-d7) (Bb2-c1)
     14	00:50	  25.812.516	516.250	+1.03	Bd2-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-h7 Ba4-c2 Qd7-c8 Qd3-d2 Nf5-h6 Bc3-b2 Nh6-g4 Qd2-c3 e6-e5 Qc3-b3 Qc8-d7
     14	01:10	  36.480.110	521.144	+1.03	Bd2-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Kg7-h7 Ba4-c2 Qd7-c8 Qd3-d2 Nf5-h6 Bc3-b2 Nh6-g4 Qd2-c3 e6-e5 Qc3-b3 Qc8-d7
     15	01:47	  56.831.875	531.139	+1.05	Bd2-c3 f7-f6 Rc1-e1 Qd7-e8 Ba4-c2 Kg7-h7 Qd3-d1 Nf5-h6 Bc3-d2 Nh6-g4 Qd1-a1 e6-e5 Qa1-a2 Qe8-d7 Kg1-g2
   9/5/2008 3:18:57 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:03:00, Rated time: 00:37
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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12792
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Does any engine see Bc3 in this position?

Post by Dann Corbit »

Uri wrote:Does any engine see Bc3 in this position?

[d] rb6/1p1qrpk1/pPn1p1p1/P1Pp1n1p/B2P3P/3Q1NP1/3BRP2/2R3K1 w - - 0 33

This position is from the game in which Kasparov crushed Deep Blue by demonstrating his much better understanding of mobility. In chess, when the pawns advance, they make room for the minor and heavy pieces behind them. Kasparov teaches that since chess is limited to 64 squares, the more 'territory' you control in the enemy camp the more space your pieces will have to operate in and the less space your opponent will have for his pieces.

[Event "1996"]
[Date "Match 1996"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kasparov"]
[Black "Deep Blue "]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D30"]

1. Nf3 d5 2. d4 c6 3. c4 e6 4. Nbd2 Nf6 5. e3 c5 6. b3 Nc6 7. Bb2 cxd4 8. exd4 Be7 9. Rc1 O-O 10. Bd3 Bd7 11. O-O Nh5 12. Re1 Nf4 13. Bb1 Bd6 14. g3 Ng6 15. Ne5 Rc8 16. Nxd7 Qxd7 17. Nf3 Bb4 18.Re3 Rfd8 19. h4 Nge7 20. a3 Ba5 21. b4 Bc7 22. c5 Re8 23. Qd3 g6 24. Re2 Nf5 25. Bc3 h5 26. b5 Nce7 27. Bd2 Kg7 28. a4 Ra8 29. a5 a6 30. b6 Bb8 31. Bc2 Nc6
32. Ba4 Re7 33. Bc3 Ne5 34. dxe5 Qxa4 35. Nd4 Nxd4 36. Qxd4 Qd7 37. Bd2 Re8 38. Bg5 Rc8 39. Bf6+ Kh7 40. c6 bxc6 41. Qc5 Kh6 42. Rb2 Qb7 43. Rb4 1-0
It seems like whatever white does here (from a range of sensible choices) all leave a clear advantage for white. Here are some strong engine outputs, thinking for 10 minuites:

Code: Select all

================================================================
Qc3 -->
Naum:
    22/46	09:36	1.212.917.844	2.105.350	+1.10	Qd3c3 Re7e8 Rc1e1 f7f6 Qc3b2 Nf5h6 Kg1g2 Nh6g4 Bd2c3 Re8e7 Qb2d2 Re7e8 Ba4b3 Re8e7 Kg2g1 Re7e8 Re1d1 Ng4h6 Qd2d3 Nh6f5 Rd1f1 Kg7h8
    
Shredder:
    22/50	09:02	1.587.926.318	2.928.937	+1.35	Qd3c3 Re7e8 Rc1e1 Kg7h7 Qc3b3

Zappa:
    20/60	07:18	1.381.092.188	3.154.496	+0.95	Qd3c3 Re7e8 Rc1e1 Re8c8 Ba4c2 Nc6e7 Bd2g5 Ne7c6 Kg1h1 Rc8g8 Bg5c1 Rg8c8 Kh1g1 Nc6e7 Bc1g5
================================================================
Re1 -->
Deep Frenzee:
    22/43	07:15	2.261.336,726	5.188.571	+1.21	Re2e1 f7f6 Bd2c3 Re7e8 Bc3b2 Kg7f7 Qd3c2 Kf7g7 Rc1d1 Kg7f8 Kg1g2 Kf8f7 Rd1c1 Kf7g7 Kg2f1 Kg7g8 Bb2c3 Re8c8 Qc2d2 Qd7f7 Qd2e2 e6e5 Ba4xc6 Rc8xc6 d4xe5

Glaurung:    
    23	07:46	2.527.423,583	5.413.084	+0.96	Rc1e1 f7f6 Bd2c1 Kg7g8 Qd3d2 Re7e8 Ba4b3 Kg8g7 Bc1b2 Kg7g8 Bb3d1 Qd7f7 Bd1c2 Re8e7 Bb2c3 Kg8g7 Bc2b3 Kg7g8 Qd2d1 Qf7e8 Bb3c2 Qe8c8 Bc2xf5 g6xf5

Hiarcs:
    21/41	08:05	 772.909.468	1.594.370	+0.82	Rc1e1 Re7e8 Bd2c3 Re8f8 Qd3d2 Qd7c8 Qd2g5 Qc8d7 Kg1g2 Rf8c8 Kg2h2 Qd7e7 Kh2g1 Qe7d7 Kg1g2 Qd7e8 Kg2g1 Qe8e7

Rybka 3:
    22	07:03	  87.168.752	211.066	+0.72	Rc1e1 Re7e8 Nf3g5 Kg7g8 Bd2c3 Qd7c8 Qd3d2 Re8e7 Ba4c2 Qc8f8 Ng5f3

Toga:
    24/55	09:57	 640.239.908	4.441.289	+1.00	Rc1e1 Re7e8 Bd2c3 Kg7g8 Qd3d2 Kg8g7 Qd2c1 Qd7e7 Qc1g5 f7f6 Qg5d2 Qe7d7 Qd2a2 Kg7h8 Ba4c2 Qd7f7 Kg1g2 Qf7g8 Qa2a4 Kh8h7 Kg2f1 Qg8f7 Qa4b3 Kh7h8 Bc2xf5 g6xf5
================================================================
Rb1 --> 
Belka:
     20	05:49	 629.295.716	1.901.356	+1.20	Rc1b1 Re7e8 Rb1e1 Kg7g8 Ba4c2 Re8c8 Qd3c3 Nc6e7 Bc2d3 Kg8g7 Qc3b3 Rc8d8 Bd2g5 Rd8c8 Re1d1 f7f6 Bg5d2 Ne7c6 Bd2c3 Qd7e7

ChessTiger:
     24	06:47	 621.841.622	1.531.856	+0.64	Rc1b1 f7f6 Bd2c3 Qd7e8 Rb1d1 Kg7h7 Re2e1 Kh7g7 Qd3e2 Kg7g8 Qe2f1 Re7f7 Rd1d2 Kg8f8 Ba4b3 Rf7d7 Qf1g2 Rd7e7 Rd2e2
================================================================
Qa3: -->
Fruit:
     21	08:56	 683.601.067	1.275.096	+0.96	Qd3a3 Re7e8 Rc1e1 Kg7h8 Bd2c3 Kh8g7 Qa3b2 Re8c8 Ba4c2 Qd7d8 Qb2c1 Nc6e7 Kg1g2 Qd8d7 Qc1a3 Qd7b5 Bc3d2 Qb5e8 Bd2g5 Rc8c6 Bg5xe7 Nf5xe7

Scorpio:
     21	08:56	1.738.685.944	3.243.817	+1.68	Qd3-a3 f7-f6 Bd2-c3 Kg7-g8 Rc1-e1 Kg8-h8 Kg1-g2 Qd7-c8 Qa3-a2 Kh8-g8 Ba4-b3 Kg8-h8 Kg2-g1 Kh8-h7
================================================================
Ne1: -->
Bright:
    20/63	08:28	3.152.879,099	6.205	+1.24	Nf3e1 Re7e8 Ne1c2 Nf5e7 Bd2g5 f7f6 Bg5d2 Re8h8 Rc1d1 Qd7c8 Ba4xc6 Ne7xc6 Nc2b4 Qc8d7 Nb4xc6 Qd7xc6 Bd2c3 f6f5 Rd1e1 Rh8e8 Kg1h2 Kg7h6 Bc3d2+ Kh6h7
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Uri
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Re: Does any engine see Bc3 in this position?

Post by Uri »

Dann Corbit wrote:

Code: Select all


Analysis from Q:\epd\sub\bc3.epd   
9/5/2008 3:12:35 PM Level: Tournament Game in 5 Minutes
Analyzing engine: Baronx64

1) Bc3;                 
    Searching move: Bd2-c3
    Best move (Baronx64): Bd2-c3
    identical moves! Found in: 00:37
      2	00:05	         692	133	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6
      2	00:05	         893	172	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6
      3	00:05	       1.140	219	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6 Ba4xc6
      3	00:05	       1.786	344	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6 Ba4xc6
      4	00:05	       3.020	581	+1.33	Bd2-g5 f7-f6 Ba4xc6
Baron seems to be a very strong engine, even stronger than Rybka 3. Do you where i can get it? Is it a commerical engine?
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Uri
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Re: Does any engine see Bc3 in this position?

Post by Uri »

Nevermind i just found it here:

http://www.evonet.be/~rpijl/html/latest_version.html
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