Read again. Rebel 14 likes almost nothing.

Come on, i just showed a simple test position. Is that too much?
Moderator: Ras
It makes no sense...Rebel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:49 pmRead again, the red.Vernon Crawford wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:03 pm
If you're so against pruning and not interested in Elo, why did you implement PK's new heavily Stockfish influenced search?
I didn't accuse you of anything if you'll read what I've written. In any case, it's difficult for me to buy the notion that a 2800 Elo engine (PK's improved Fruit) is "heavily Stockfish influenced" so I asked what lead you to make that claim.Vernon Crawford wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:46 pm// late move reductionconnor_mcmonigle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:20 pmOutside of a log based reduction formula, what makes PK's changes "heavily Stockfish influenced"? All these other heuristics predate Stockfish. Have you even read the source or are you just making baseless claims?Vernon Crawford wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:03 pm ...
If you're so against pruning and not interested in Elo, why did you implement PK's new heavily Stockfish influenced search?
// static null move / beta pruning
// calculate reduction - simplified Stockfish formula
// Razoring
// late move pruning
Connor, the comments I posted above are copied from Rebel 14 source code, and these features are not present in Fruit 2.1.
Please refrain from knee-jerk reactions and accusations without due diligence.
My question was addressed to Ed, why so eager to defend him any question or comment?
Because it wanted to get to the other side.Vernon Crawford wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:03 pmEd, Rebel 14 contains a new improved +100 Elo search with quite a bit of new pruning and reductions compared to Fruit 2.1:Rebel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:38 am About the choice for the name REBEL.
I can understand the criticism. At development time the internal name "Fruity" was used, the compiler still produces "fruitig.exe" (dutch for fruity). The reason to call it REBEL (and not ProDeo or Fruit) is that it doesn't play like Fruit, nor like ProDeo, with NNUE it won back its original attractive REBEL playing style of the 90's, Rebel Century and Rebel 12 (both DOS) being the last ones.
As many of you know very well all that massive pruning delivers a lot elo, the side effect is perhaps less known, or it is known but not cared about because elo rules. Point of massive pruning is you also prune in the chess knowledge you worked so hard on for years, it affects the playing style of an engine.
While it's true ProDeo gained 200-250 elo over the last Rebel (DOS) 90% due to search changes I hardly recognize the engine any longer due to all the pruning. NNUE changed all that and much better. NNUE makes a blue print of your hard worked on HCE evaluation without pruning.
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About the choice for the FRUIT search and not using my own.
When I retired in 2002/3 I was using an up to date compiler (Digital Mars, formally Symantec) of that time but with my retirement the compiler guys retired also. No more updates. No 64 bit support, no SSE support, and also Rebel / ProDeo and Benjamin are all 32 bit assembler code. Moving to NNUE requires a modern compiler and C or C++ is a must. And I have one, Gideon 1992/93 is entirely in C and it compiles nicely with VS-2019. But to go back 30 years in time and redo all the changes... I checked --> mission (almost) impossible.
As I wanted to do NNUE anyway anyhow I looked for suited inactive GPL engines similar in strength with the latest ProDeo. And Growing Fruit looked excellent for that purpose. There are many other inactive engines out there and much stronger, some even without any licence. I have no intention to step back in the elo arena.
// late move reduction
// static null move / beta pruning
// calculate reduction - simplified Stockfish formula
// Razoring
// late move pruning
On my PC, Rebel 14 searches to depth 17 in 5 secs while Fruit 2.1 only achieves depth 13.
If you're so against pruning and not interested in Elo, why did you implement PK's new heavily Stockfish influenced search?
Simple solution for you.
It is very weak? Can you score two points against it in 100 games? If not then it is not too weak, it is just not SF level which is perfectly expected
chrisw wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:08 pmBecause it wanted to get to the other side.Vernon Crawford wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:03 pm
If you're so against pruning and not interested in Elo, why did you implement PK's new heavily Stockfish influenced search?
Oh man, you can only talk stupid. I was just saying that the engine is weak (with a testposition), your comment doesn't make it any better.
I’ve already colonized that retired engine. Sorry.dannyb wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:05 pm Yesterday Prof. Hyatt was found rolling on the floor laughing his ass off. He has been sedated and he is fine now.
Whether what happened is in any way related to the release of Fruity Rebel is still uncertain and therefore we kindly ask you not to tell him that Ed is now considering switching to Toga IV so that Rebel can have a parallel search as he stated in his forum.
Better safe than sorry. Thank you.
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