Strelka 1.8 UCI released

[Uri Blass]

No
I did not try other engines.

I invite other posters to do it.
Maybe it can help to find clones.

Uri

[George Tsavdaris]

No
I did not try other engines.

I invite other posters to do it.
Maybe it can help to find clones.

It's too late right now so tomorrow i will post more positions but here is one:

5k2/2p2p1p/p1p2p1p/8/8/P1P2P1P/P1P2P1P/5K2 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 1.0 beta 32-bit on ply X is with blue AND
Analysis by Strelka 1.8 UCI on ply X+2 is with Red:



Note that:
For plies 3/5 the difference between the evaluations is 0.06
For plies 4/6 the difference between the evaluations is 0.06
For plies 5/7 the difference between the evaluations is 0.06
For plies 6-20/8-22 the difference between the evaluations is 0.06
The PV's are the same.

1.Kf1-e2
± (0.94) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-d4
± (1.00) Depth: 5 00:00:00

1.Kf1-e2
± (1.00) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 c6-c5
± (1.06) Depth: 6 00:00:00 1kN


1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7
± (0.82) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 c6-c5 3.Kd3-e4 Ke7-e6 4.a3-a4 f6-f5+ 5.Ke4-d3
± (0.88) Depth: 7 00:00:00 3kN


1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3
± (0.88) Depth: 6 00:00:00 4kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 c6-c5 3.a3-a4 Ke7-e6 4.f3-f4 Ke6-d5 5.c3-c4+ Kd5-d6
± (0.94) Depth: 8 00:00:00 7kN


1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 c6-c5
± (0.88) Depth: 7 00:00:00 12kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 c6-c5 3.Kd3-e4 Ke7-e6 4.f3-f4 f6-f5+ 5.Ke4-d3 Ke6-d5 6.c3-c4+ Kd5-d6
± (0.94) Depth: 9 00:00:00 18kN


1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 c6-c5 3.Kd3-e4
± (0.88) Depth: 8 00:00:00 24kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 c6-c5 3.Kd3-e4 Ke7-e6 4.Ke4-f4 Ke6-d5 5.Kf4-f5 Kd5-c4
± (0.94) Depth: 10 00:00:00 36kN


1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 c6-c5 3.Kd3-e4 Ke7-e6
± (0.88) Depth: 9 00:00:00 48kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 c6-c5 3.Kd3-e4 Ke7-e6 4.c3-c4 f6-f5+ 5.Ke4-f4 a6-a5 6.a3-a4 h6-h5
± (0.94) Depth: 11 00:00:01 69kN


All the evaluations for Rybka and Strelka are the same for more plies and don't change until ply 20. After that i didn't analyze further....



In comparison here is Fruit's 2.1 evaluation that does has some similarities too but i can't find a pattern for now(it's late so i can't look right now for regression results).
Also the PV's are not the same with Strelka or Rybka.

1.Kf1-e1
² (0.62) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
1.Kf1-e2
± (0.86) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7
² (0.50) Depth: 2/2 00:00:00
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3
² (0.62) Depth: 3/3 00:00:00
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6
² (0.50) Depth: 4/5 00:00:00
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-d4
² (0.62) Depth: 5/7 00:00:00
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-d4 Kd6-e6
² (0.62) Depth: 6/7 00:00:00 1kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 f6-f5 3.Kd3-d4 Ke7-d6 4.Kd4-d3
² (0.50) Depth: 7/9 00:00:00 4kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 f6-f5 3.Kd3-d4 Ke7-d6 4.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 5.Kd4-d3
² (0.50) Depth: 8/9 00:00:00 9kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 f6-f5 3.Kd3-d4 Ke7-d6 4.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 5.Kd4-c4 a6-a5
² (0.50) Depth: 9/13 00:00:01 21kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-c5 4.a3-a4 Kc5-c4 5.Ke4-f5 Kc4xc3 6.Kf5xf6
² (0.50) Depth: 10/14 00:00:01 46kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-c5 4.a3-a4 Kc5-c4 5.Ke4-f5 Kc4xc3 6.Kf5xf6
² (0.50) Depth: 11/15 00:00:01 95kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-c5 4.a3-a4 Kc5-c4 5.Ke4-f5 Kc4xc3 6.Kf5xf6 Kc3xc2 7.Kf6xf7
² (0.50) Depth: 12/16 00:00:01 192kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-e6 4.Ke4-d4 Ke6-d6 5.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 6.Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 7.a2-a3 f6-f5+ 8.Ke4-f4
² (0.50) Depth: 13/17 00:00:01 379kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-e6 4.Ke4-d4 Ke6-d6 5.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 6.Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 7.a2-a3 f6-f5+ 8.Ke4-f4 a6-a5
² (0.50) Depth: 14/19 00:00:01 741kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-e6 4.Ke4-d4 Ke6-d6 5.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 6.Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 7.a2-a3 f6-f5+ 8.Ke4-f4 a6-a5 9.c3-c4
² (0.50) Depth: 15/20 00:00:02 1410kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-e6 4.Ke4-d4 Ke6-d6 5.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 6.Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 7.a2-a3 f6-f5+ 8.Ke4-f4 a6-a5 9.c3-c4 c7-c6
² (0.50) Depth: 16/21 00:00:02 2739kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-e6 4.Ke4-d4 Ke6-d6 5.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 6.Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 7.a2-a3 f6-f5+ 8.Ke4-f4 a6-a5 9.c3-c4 c7-c6 10.Kf4-e3
² (0.50) Depth: 17/23 00:00:02 5795kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-e6 4.Ke4-d4 Ke6-d6 5.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 6.Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 7.f3-f4 f6-f5+ 8.Ke4-d3 Ke6-d6 9.c3-c4 Kd6-e6 10.a2-a3 a6-a5
² (0.50) Depth: 18/25 00:00:05 10865kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-e6 4.Ke4-d4 Ke6-d6 5.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 6.Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 7.f3-f4 f6-f5+ 8.Ke4-d3 Ke6-d6 9.c3-c4 Kd6-e6 10.a2-a3 a6-a5 11.Kd3-e3
² (0.50) Depth: 19/26 00:00:09 19804kN
1.Kf1-e2 Kf8-e7 2.Ke2-d3 Ke7-d6 3.Kd3-e4 Kd6-e6 4.Ke4-d4 Ke6-d6 5.a3-a4 c6-c5+ 6.Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 7.f3-f4 f6-f5+ 8.Ke4-d3 Ke6-d6 9.c3-c4 Kd6-e6 10.a2-a3 a6-a5 11.Kd3-e3 Ke6-d6
² (0.50) Depth: 20/27 00:00:15 33091kN

[fern]

Reading Uri Blas stuff, I begun to have my doubts, God forgive me...

Vacillating regards
Fernando

[Daniel Mehrmann]

Have you tried any other engines on these positions Uri?

Regards, Graham.

Well, why is this crap starting again ?
The most people just see white and black, but no other colors.

Do you know the define of a "Onboard" clone ?

This will be funny now...

Best,
Daniel

[ozziejoe]

i have to admit these analyses look remarkablely similar.

It is possible that the strelka author got ahold of a rybka beta code just before beta 1. (given strelka is slighly inferior to rybka beta)

I can think of only two ways to address this possibility.

1) give vas a chance to view the strelka code.

2) we need to have an estimate of how similar engine evaluations can be by chance, given the engines are different. If we know what the chance distribution looks like, we can then estimate whether the strelka-rybka similarity is likely to belong to the chance distirbution

another possibility: maybe strelka and rybka are similar because they are based in a similar insight.

sometimes, in the history of science and mathamatics, multiple labs (or people) have similar breakthroughs at the same time

[Tony Thomas]

By posting analysis Uri never said that he had any doubts about the authenticity of rybka, but he was just trying to show the similarity.

None of you must have heard the following.

Great minds think alike.

Only thing I dont understand is, why is he giving his engine away for free?

[Daniel Mehrmann]

Note that this engine has a very similiar analysis to rybka beta
in the following position

Uri, that proofs nothing and you should know it. Strelka is and was never a classic clone.

best,
Daniel

[James Constance]

I've just analysed some random positons with Strelka 1.8 and Rybka 1.0 beta and it must be said that the similarity in evaluation is extraordinary. I think the most likely explanation for this similarity is that they are based on the same code. Perhaps there are some other good explanations as well.

In argument against it being a clone, surely one would make it less obvious...?

Now, don't bite my head off

[Uri Blass]

Note that this engine has a very similiar analysis to rybka beta
in the following position

Uri, that proofs nothing and you should know it. Strelka is and was never a classic clone.

best,
Daniel

I will leave other posters to express their opinion.

I will give posters the following link and some comparison between rybka and strelka on the relevant position
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... id=1663#fp


New game
r2qk2r/8/8/1p1p1p1p/pPpPpPpP/P1P1P1P1/8/4K3 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Strelka 1.8 UCI:

1.Ke1-f2
-+ (-26.46) Depth: 1 00:00:00
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7
-+ (-26.73) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-g2
-+ (-26.77) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-g2 Qd8-d6
-+ (-27.16) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Qd8-d6 3.Kf1-g2
-+ (-27.22) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7
-+ (-27.27) Depth: 6 00:00:00 5kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 7 00:00:00 17kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2 Kg6-f7
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 8 00:00:00 156kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2 Kg6-f7 5.Kf2-g2
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 9 00:00:00 171kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2 Kg6-f7 5.Kf2-g2 Qe7-d6
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 10 00:00:00 1212kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2 Kg6-f7 5.Kf2-g2 Qe7-d6 6.Kg2-f1
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 11 00:00:01 1273kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2 Kg6-f7 5.Kf2-g2 Qe7-d6 6.Kg2-f1 Kf7-g6
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 12 00:00:03 7148kN
1.Ke1-f2 Qd8xh4 2.g3xh4 g4-g3+ 3.Kf2xg3 Rh8-g8+ 4.Kg3-f2 Ra8-a7 5.Kf2-f1 Ra7-g7 6.Kf1-f2 Rg7-g1 7.Kf2-e2 Rg8-g2#
-+ (-#7) Depth: 13 00:00:03 7657kN

(, 08.07.2007)

New game
r2qk2r/8/8/1p1p1p1p/pPpPpPpP/P1P1P1P1/8/4K3 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit:

1.Ke1-f2
-+ (-27.22) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1.Ke1-f2
-+ (-27.27) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 6 00:00:00 63kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 7 00:00:00 66kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 8 00:00:00 530kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 9 00:00:00 541kN
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 10 00:00:03 3009kN
1.Ke1-f2 Qd8xh4 2.g3xh4 g4-g3+ 3.Kf2xg3 Rh8-g8+ 4.Kg3-f2 Ra8-a7 5.Kf2-f1 Ra7-g7
-+ (-320.00) Depth: 11 00:00:03 3063kN

(, 08.07.2007)


Comparison 1:
Rybka

1.Ke1-f2
-+ (-27.22) Depth: 3 00:00:00

Strelka
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Qd8-d6 3.Kf1-g2
-+ (-27.22) Depth: 5 00:00:00


Comparison 2:
Rybka
1.Ke1-f2
-+ (-27.27) Depth: 4 00:00:00
Strelka
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7
-+ (-27.27) Depth: 6 00:00:00 5kN

comparison 3:
Rybka
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 5 00:00:00
Strelka
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 7 00:00:00 17kN


comparison 4:
Rybka:
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 6 00:00:00 63kN
Strelka
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 8 00:00:00 530kN


Comparison 5:
Rybka:
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 7 00:00:00 66kN

Strelka:
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2 Kg6-f7 5.Kf2-g2
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 9 00:00:00 171kN

Comparison 6:
Rybka:
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 8 00:00:00 530kN

Strelka:
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2 Kg6-f7 5.Kf2-g2 Qe7-d6
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 10 00:00:00 1212kN

Comparison 7:
Rybka:
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 9 00:00:00 541kN

Strelka:
1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2 Kg6-f7 5.Kf2-g2 Qe7-d6 6.Kg2-f1
-+ (-19.35) Depth: 11 00:00:01 1273kN

comparison 8:

Rybka:

1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 10 00:00:03 3009kN

Strelka:

1.Ke1-f2 Ke8-f7 2.Kf2-f1 Kf7-g6 3.Kf1-g2 Qd8-e7 4.Kg2-f2 Kg6-f7 5.Kf2-g2 Qe7-d6 6.Kg2-f1 Kf7-g6
-+ (-19.29) Depth: 12 00:00:03 7148kN


Comparison 9:
Rybka
1.Ke1-f2 Qd8xh4 2.g3xh4 g4-g3+ 3.Kf2xg3 Rh8-g8+ 4.Kg3-f2 Ra8-a7 5.Kf2-f1 Ra7-g7
-+ (-320.00) Depth: 11 00:00:03 3063kN

(, 08.07.2007)

Strelka:

1.Ke1-f2 Qd8xh4 2.g3xh4 g4-g3+ 3.Kf2xg3 Rh8-g8+ 4.Kg3-f2 Ra8-a7 5.Kf2-f1 Ra7-g7 6.Kf1-f2 Rg7-g1 7.Kf2-e2 Rg8-g2#
-+ (-#7) Depth: 13 00:00:03 7657kN

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

The similarity is scarey to say the least
Could it be a very well hidden clone,I do hope it's not though