Regarding Strekla and CCT10+...

[Tord Romstad]

Would the author of strong engine mind if there is an entry like 1500 rated engine reverse engineered from open source programs?I bet they wouldn't.

You are the only exception, Tord. You get my applause!

The only exception? Nothing could be further from the truth, I think. So far, all authors who have posted in this thread seem to share my opinion.

Tord

[Roman Hartmann]

... reverse engineered from open source programs?...

Regards.

I like that one

Roman

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

... reverse engineered from open source programs?...

Regards.

I like that one

Roman

Yep,makes sense to me

[swami]

Would the author of strong engine mind if there is an entry like 1500 rated engine reverse engineered from open source programs?I bet they wouldn't.

You are the only exception, Tord. You get my applause!

The only exception? Nothing could be further from the truth, I think. So far, all authors who have posted in this thread seem to share my opinion.

Tord

Hi Tord,

Sorry,I must have missed H.G.Muller's Post, Only posts prior to yours count, So far the only author who has written it is H.G. Which I missed that's why I said you were the only exception.

Regards.

[Ryan Benitez]

I would like to keep this topic clean and free for Authors who have participated in the CCT events, and get their feedback on whether it should or should not be allowed to participate, and why.

Why do you ask? Whatever you decide to do, I think it is best to ignore the opinions of authors. In a competitive event, it makes no sense that the participants themselves take part in the deciding who should be allowed to participate. It is better to ask neutral people, i.e. non-authors. If you start giving in to pressure and threats from engine authors, it will be difficult to take the CCT seriously.

Ultimately, you are the one who makes the rules, and who decides whether a potential participant satisfies the rules.

I don't want this to be a huge debate about whether it is a clone or not, but rather what other author's will do if it is or isn't allowed to participate.

I agree with Harm Geert. Whether Strelka is or isn't allowed to play will not have any influence on what I will do. But if Strelka is excluded, and I suspect that the main reason it is not allowed to play is that the majority of authors don't want to play against it, I will definitely not play in the tournament.

Tord

I don't understand why you think engine authors would not want to play against Strelka. I think everyone who enters such an event knows they may lose a few games so I would hope that is not a factor. If we are going to vote people out for being better than us lets get rid of a few more I guess... The big reason I see for people not wanting Strelka to play is the question as to if it is a legal engine or not. You don’t have to be an engine author to have this concern. I think people will always be uncomfortable about this but the best I can think of is to ask the FSF and Vas if they both see Strelka as a legal engine. If they both agree that it is legal than it should be accepted as such in tournaments such as CCT. Personally I see Strelka as a well done study released to the public in a dubious way. I am not in any position however to say it is or is not a legal engine.

Ryan

[GenoM]

Personally I see Strelka as a well done study released to the public in a dubious way. I am not in any position however to say it is or is not a legal engine.

I agree.

[Uri Blass]

I would like to keep this topic clean and free for Authors who have participated in the CCT events, and get their feedback on whether it should or should not be allowed to participate, and why.

Why do you ask? Whatever you decide to do, I think it is best to ignore the opinions of authors. In a competitive event, it makes no sense that the participants themselves take part in the deciding who should be allowed to participate. It is better to ask neutral people, i.e. non-authors. If you start giving in to pressure and threats from engine authors, it will be difficult to take the CCT seriously.

Ultimately, you are the one who makes the rules, and who decides whether a potential participant satisfies the rules.

I don't want this to be a huge debate about whether it is a clone or not, but rather what other author's will do if it is or isn't allowed to participate.

I agree with Harm Geert. Whether Strelka is or isn't allowed to play will not have any influence on what I will do. But if Strelka is excluded, and I suspect that the main reason it is not allowed to play is that the majority of authors don't want to play against it, I will definitely not play in the tournament.

Tord

I don't understand why you think engine authors would not want to play against Strelka. I think everyone who enters such an event knows they may lose a few games so I would hope that is not a factor. If we are going to vote people out for being better than us lets get rid of a few more I guess... The big reason I see for people not wanting Strelka to play is the question as to if it is a legal engine or not. You don’t have to be an engine author to have this concern. I think people will always be uncomfortable about this but the best I can think of is to ask the FSF and Vas if they both see Strelka as a legal engine. If they both agree that it is legal than it should be accepted as such in tournaments such as CCT. Personally I see Strelka as a well done study released to the public in a dubious way. I am not in any position however to say it is or is not a legal engine.

Ryan

Tord did not say that he think that engine authors would not want to play against Strelka.


Tord only said that he is not going to participate if the reason not to include strelka is that authors do not want to play against it.

Note that "do not want to play against it" means nothing about fear of losing and authors may decide not to want to play against it because of a different reason.

Note also that the question of strelka is not going to influence my decisions about participation.

It means that I am not going to change my decision about participation because of strelka and I also do not share the opinion of tord and it means that I will not decide not to participate because of the reason that tord mentioned(this is probably not going to happen because I do not expect most authors not to want to play against strelka).

Uri

[Uri Blass]

I would like to keep this topic clean and free for Authors who have participated in the CCT events, and get their feedback on whether it should or should not be allowed to participate, and why.

Why do you ask? Whatever you decide to do, I think it is best to ignore the opinions of authors. In a competitive event, it makes no sense that the participants themselves take part in the deciding who should be allowed to participate. It is better to ask neutral people, i.e. non-authors. If you start giving in to pressure and threats from engine authors, it will be difficult to take the CCT seriously.

Ultimately, you are the one who makes the rules, and who decides whether a potential participant satisfies the rules.

I don't want this to be a huge debate about whether it is a clone or not, but rather what other author's will do if it is or isn't allowed to participate.

I agree with Harm Geert. Whether Strelka is or isn't allowed to play will not have any influence on what I will do. But if Strelka is excluded, and I suspect that the main reason it is not allowed to play is that the majority of authors don't want to play against it, I will definitely not play in the tournament.

Tord

I don't understand why you think engine authors would not want to play against Strelka. I think everyone who enters such an event knows they may lose a few games so I would hope that is not a factor. If we are going to vote people out for being better than us lets get rid of a few more I guess... The big reason I see for people not wanting Strelka to play is the question as to if it is a legal engine or not. You don’t have to be an engine author to have this concern. I think people will always be uncomfortable about this but the best I can think of is to ask the FSF and Vas if they both see Strelka as a legal engine. If they both agree that it is legal than it should be accepted as such in tournaments such as CCT. Personally I see Strelka as a well done study released to the public in a dubious way. I am not in any position however to say it is or is not a legal engine.

Ryan

As long as it is legal to play against strelka I think that the question if strelka is legal or illegal is not relevant for my decision if to play in a tournament.

Uri

[Peter Skinner]

The only reason for this topic was to gain opinions from authors who maybe participating in CCT10.

It was not to make the decision for me whether Strelka would be allowed to participate.

There has been about a 50-50 split in people stating whether or not it should be allowed to participate, but most stated it would also not influence their decision to play themselves.

In previous CCT events, Toga has never been allowed to participate due to it being a clone of Fruit even though for a time it was better than the released version of Fruit.

Since there is a precedent set, Strelka will not be allowed to participate.

Some people emailed me more concerned about the number of possible "operators" in CCT10 due to problems last year and in the last ACCA event.

CCT was designed to be an author's only tournament, for the authors to get together, play a nice tournament and discuss things while the programs played.

As such I have changed the rules slightly in regards to "operators".

In an effort to ensure the person operating a program during the CCT events has more than a "set up" understanding of the engine, any author wishing to use an operator much register by December 1,2007.

This will surely promote communication between the author and operator for almost 2 months to work out bugs with interfaces and running on ICC. It will also ensure the person operating with have more than a passing knowledge of the program he/she is operating thus making them a "team member" of sorts.

Authors who will be operating their own programs, will have until January 18, 2008 to register.

Peter