83 nice Testpositions (Long and big post).

[Uri Blass]

Nice analysis.....

Here is the EPD with am(avoid move) and bm(best move) opcodes, and with an added position also:


8 3k4/4pp2/n2n4/5BN1/3N4/b7/4K3/8 w - - 0 1 bm Nxf7+;

I think that Nxf7+ is losing

At least Nxf7 Nxf7 Nc6+ Ke7 Nxe7 Bxe7
is a loss for white based on tablebases

[GeorgeLyapko]

Nice analysis.....

Here is the EPD with am(avoid move) and bm(best move) opcodes, and with an added position also:


8 3k4/4pp2/n2n4/5BN1/3N4/b7/4K3/8 w - - 0 1 bm Nxf7+;

I think that Nxf7+ is losing

At least Nxf7 Nxf7 Nc6+ Ke7 Nxe7 Bxe7
is a loss for white based on tablebases

What about 2.Ne6+?
e.g. 1. Nxf7+ Nxf7 2. Ne6+ Ke8 3. Bg6 Bc1 4. Bd3 Nb8 5. Kd1 Bb2 6. Bb5+ Nd7 7. Be2
and black can't make progress

[Uri Blass]

Nice analysis.....

Here is the EPD with am(avoid move) and bm(best move) opcodes, and with an added position also:


8 3k4/4pp2/n2n4/5BN1/3N4/b7/4K3/8 w - - 0 1 bm Nxf7+;

I think that Nxf7+ is losing

At least Nxf7 Nxf7 Nc6+ Ke7 Nxe7 Bxe7
is a loss for white based on tablebases

What about 2.Ne6+?
e.g. 1. Nxf7+ Nxf7 2. Ne6+ Ke8 3. Bg6 Bc1 4. Bd3 Nb8 5. Kd1 Bb2 6. Bb5+ Nd7 7. Be2
and black can't make progress

You are right.
It is a draw.

I thought simply about the obvious human try to leave the opponent with no pawns and only with 2 knights that does not work and did not analyze what happens after
other moves.

Uri

[Eelco de Groot]

Nice analysis.....

Here is the EPD with am(avoid move) and bm(best move) opcodes, and with an added position also:


8 3k4/4pp2/n2n4/5BN1/3N4/b7/4K3/8 w - - 0 1 bm Nxf7+;

I think that Nxf7+ is losing

At least Nxf7 Nxf7 Nc6+ Ke7 Nxe7 Bxe7
is a loss for white based on tablebases

What about 2.Ne6+?
e.g. 1. Nxf7+ Nxf7 2. Ne6+ Ke8 3. Bg6 Bc1 4. Bd3 Nb8 5. Kd1 Bb2 6. Bb5+ Nd7 7. Be2
and black can't make progress

You are right.
It is a draw.

I thought simply about the obvious human try to leave the opponent with no pawns and only with 2 knights that does not work and did not analyze what happens after
other moves.

Uri

In a 2 seconds per move average shoot-out, Fruit 2.3.1 still lost against itself by playing 42.Nc7? here:

[d]4k3/3npn2/4N3/2b5/8/8/3KB3/8 w - -

Fruit 2.3.1 needs 16 ply to see that 42.Kc3 draws now, in Analysis mode before that it plays 42.Nxc5 which also loses I think. Fruit 2.3.1 Mandarin needs only 13 ply to see that 42.Kc3 draws, and its own shoot-out ended in a draw.


[Event "Shoot-out in front of the saloon"]
[Site "Groningen"]
[Date "2007.08.09"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Fruit 2.3.1 Mandarin"]
[Black "Fruit 2.3.1 Mandarin"]
[Result "½-½"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3k4/4pp2/n2n4/5BN1/3N4/b7/4K3/8 w - -"]

1. Nxf7+ Nxf7 2. Ne6+ Ke8 3. Bg6 Bc1 {+3.52/24 42s} 4. Bd3
{-3.52/23 6s} Nb8 {+3.52/22 4s} 5. Kd1 {-3.53/22 6s} Ba3
{+3.56/18 9s} (5... Bb2 {+3.52/22 6s}{This was the continuation in the Fruit 2.3.1 Shoot-out} 6. Bb5+ {-3.52/22
11s} Nd7 {+3.52/23 6s} 7. Be2 {-3.52/23 6s} Bc3 {+3.52/23
6s} 8. Kc1 {-3.52/21 4s} Bb4 {+3.52/22 6s} 9. Kc2 {-3.52/21
5s} Bd6 {+3.52/22 6s} 10. Kc3 {-3.52/20 4s} Be5+ {+3.52/21
5s} 11. Kc2 {-3.52/22 5s} Bg3 {+3.52/22 4s} 12. Kc3
{-3.52/19 3s} Be1+ {+3.52/20 5s} 13. Kd4 {-3.52/22 6s} Bf2+
{+3.52/19 3s} 14. Kc3 {-3.52/21 4s} Bg1 {+3.52/22 6s}
15. Kc2 {-3.52/23 6s} Be3 {+3.52/23 4s} 16. Kd3 {-3.52/20
4s} Bb6 {+3.52/21 6s} 17. Kc2 {-3.52/23 5s} Bg1 {+3.52/22
3s} 18. Kc3 {-3.52/23 5s} Ba7 {+3.52/22 5s} 19. Kd2
{-3.52/21 4s} Bb8 {+3.52/21 6s} 20. Ke3 {-3.52/20 6s} Be5
{+3.52/19 4s} 21. Kd2 {-3.52/17 9s} Ba1 {+3.52/20 4s}
22. Ke3 {-3.52/21 4s} Bc3 {+3.52/21 4s} 23. Kd3 {-3.52/21
3s} Bh8 {+3.52/21 4s} 24. Ke3 {-3.52/22 6s} Bf6 {+3.52/22
5s} 25. Kf4 {-3.52/22 6s} Be5+ {+3.52/21 6s} 26. Ke3
{-3.52/22 3s} Bg3 {+3.52/21 4s} 27. Kd4 {-3.52/20 4s} Be1
{+3.52/21 4s} 28. Ke3 {-3.52/22 7s} Bb4 {+3.52/21 3s}
29. Kd4 {-3.52/21 4s} Ba3 {+3.52/22 6s} 30. Ke3 {-3.52/22
3s} Bc1+ {+3.52/20 3s} 31. Kd4 {-3.51/21 3s} Bd2 {+3.51/21
5s} 32. Kd3 {-3.52/22 6s} Ba5 {+3.51/21 4s} 33. Ke3
{-3.51/20 5s} Bb6+ {+3.51/20 3s} 34. Kd2 {-3.51/21 3s} Ba7
{+3.51/20 3s} 35. Kc2 {-3.52/21 3s} Bb8 {+3.51/22 7s}
36. Kc3 {-3.52/22 5s} Bd6 {+3.51/22 7s} 37. Kd4 {-3.52/18
6s} Bb4 {+3.51/20 3s} 38. Ke3 {-3.52/21 6s} Ba5 {+3.41/21
4s} 39. Kd4 {-3.52/21 6s} Bb6+ {+3.36/21 4s} 40. Kc3
{-3.36/22 6s} Bf2 {+1.12/22 24s} 41. Kd2 {-1.12/20 3s} Bc5
{+1.12/21 6s} 42. Nc7+ { }{-1.14/20 28s} Kd8 {+1.14/22 6s}
43. Ne6+ {-1.14/22 6s} Kc8 {+1.15/22 5s} 44. Nxc5 {-1.15/22
12s} Nxc5 {+1.15/22 6s} 45. Bc4 {-1.16/22 5s} Ne5 {+1.16/23
4s} 46. Bd5 {-1.17/23 7s} Kc7 {+1.17/24 5s} 47. Ke3
{-1.17/24 3s} Kd6 {+1.18/23 6s} 48. Bg2 {-1.18/23 6s} Ng4+
{+1.20/21 4s} 49. Ke2 {-1.20/23 3s} Nf6 {+1.21/23 4s}
50. Bh3 {-1.21/23 6s} Ke5 {+1.22/22 4s} 51. Kf3 {-1.25/23
7s} Ne6 {+1.25/24 4s} 52. Kf2 {-1.25/23 3s} Nd5 {+1.25/23
3s} 53. Bg4 {-1.25/24 6s} Nd4 {+1.33/23 28s} 54. Kg3
{-1.37/21 4s} Ke4 {+1.33/22 6s} 55. Bc8 {-1.47/21 3s} e5
{+1.48/21 4s} 56. Ba6 {-1.55/21 3s} Nf5+ {+1.59/22 4s}
57. Kg4 {-1.61/24 6s} Nfe3+ {+1.63/21 4s} 58. Kg3 {-1.63/24
5s} Kd4 {+1.63/24 3s} 59. Be2 {-1.63/24 6s} e4 {+1.67/22
3s} 60. Bf3 {-1.68/23 6s} Nf5+ {+1.70/23 3s} 61. Kg4
{-1.71/24 4s} Nh6+ {+1.79/24 8s} 62. Kg3 {-1.79/25 6s} e3
{+1.80/25 8s} 63. Be2 {-1.87/25 6s} Ke4 {+1.87/25 6s}
64. Ba6 {-1.87/19 3s} Nf5+ {+10.60/23 4s} 65. Kg4
{-10.60/24 6s} Nf6+ {+13.30/21 4s} 66. Kg5 {-13.61/21 7s}
Nd7 {+13.61/21 4s}) 6. Bb5+ {-3.53/19 8s} Nd7 {+3.52/20 3s}
7. Be2 {-3.52/20 4s} Bd6 {+3.52/19 5s} 8. Kd2 {-3.52/20 6s}
Bh2 {+3.52/19 5s} 9. Kc3 {-3.52/19 7s} Bg3 {+3.52/19 6s}
10. Kd4 {-3.52/19 6s} Bf2+ {+3.52/19 5s} 11. Kc3 {-3.52/20
3s} Be3 {+3.52/19 4s} 12. Kd3 {-3.52/19 4s} Bb6 {+3.52/19
4s} 13. Kd2 {-3.52/19 3s} Ba5+ {+3.52/19 6s} 14. Kc2
{-3.52/20 5s} Bb4 {+3.52/20 4s} 15. Kb3 {-3.52/20 6s} Bd2
{+3.52/20 4s} 16. Kb2 {-3.52/20 7s} Be3 {+3.52/20 4s}
17. Kc3 {-3.52/20 4s} Ba7 {+3.52/20 5s} 18. Kd2 {-3.52/20
6s} Bg1 {+3.52/20 4s} 19. Kc3 {-3.52/20 4s} Bh2 {+3.52/20
4s} 20. Kb2 {-3.52/20 9s} Bg3 {+3.52/19 5s} 21. Kc3
{-3.52/19 3s} Be1+ {+3.52/20 9s} 22. Kc2 {-3.52/21 4s} Bh4
{+3.52/20 4s} 23. Kc3 {-3.52/19 3s} Bf6+ {+3.52/19 3s}
24. Kd2 {-3.52/20 3s} Bh8 {+3.52/19 6s} 25. Kc2 {-3.52/18
4s} Ba1 {+3.52/19 4s} 26. Kd2 {-3.52/19 3s} Bf6 {+3.52/20
5s} 27. Kc2 {-3.52/20 6s} Bh8 {+3.52/20 6s} 28. Kd2
{-3.52/20 6s} Be5 {+3.52/20 5s} 29. Ke3 {-3.52/20 8s} Bh2
{+3.52/19 6s} 30. Kd4 {-3.50/18 5s} Bd6 {+3.52/18 6s}
31. Kc3 {-3.47/18 5s} Be5+ {+3.46/18 6s} 32. Kd2 {-3.46/19
6s} Ba1 {+3.51/18 6s} 33. Kc2 {-0.02/14 4s} Bd4 {0.00/15
5s} 34. Nxd4 {0.00/17 6s} Nc5 {0.00/17 4s} 35. Nc6 {0.00/20
4s} e6 {0.00/21 6s} 36. Bc4 {0.00/23 5s} {Draw agreed, all bullets spent}*

[George Tsavdaris]

After i saw more carefully your provided analysis i see that the results are way wrong about the positions Rybka and Hiarcs solved (of course there is the case i misinterpreted the results).

For example i see that the positions reported by * means that the engine found the move. But as i see this is not correct in many cases.
Some examples(there are many more) about Rybka 1.2:

In:
21) Ng5-e6, Ng5-f3 Ng5-f3 * 1 Second

Nf3 is clearly not the move to be find, Rybka finds Nf3 yet it is noted as a solution. This is incorrect.


24) Qd3xg6, h4-h5 h4-h5 * 0 Seconds

h5 is not a solution.


35) Kc1-e7, Qh6-f6, Kc1xe4 Qh6-f6 * 7 Seconds

Although i don't understand what Kc1-e7 means, my Rybka 1.2 wants to play Kd7? after 19 plies and 3.5 minutes, so it fails in this and does not succeed(in 4 minute time).


64) g3-g4, Nd3xe5 g3-g4 * 0 Seconds

My Rybka 1.2 does not play g4 in 0 seconds but only after 2:41 minutes and 23 ply.


42) Nf3xg5, Kd3-c2 Kd3-c2 * 0 Seconds

Again here, Kc2 is not the solution.
My Rybka after 6 minutes and 27 plies does not find Nxg5! and plays Kc2?


45) Rc1xc5, Qb3-c2, Rc1-e4 Qb3-c2 * 1 Second

Qc2 is again no solution. After 3 minutes and ply-19, my Rybka 1.2 does not want to play Rxc5 which is the solution, so it fails here too in 3-min time.


So the result of "46 of 83 matching moves" for Rybka 1.2 for 3 minute time is not correct.


I'm testing Rybka 1.2i for 3 minutes per position, in the EPD i gave and until now it has 12/36 out of possible 90 positions.
When test is finished i will post the results.

[Dann Corbit]

Here is movei results for the set that you created:

Code: Select all

Analysis from c:\epd\tough.epd   
Analyzing engine: Movei UCI
8/9/2007 6:15:24 PM Level: 180 Seconds
  1) Bf1-g2             a6-a7    
  2) Ng1-f3             Ng1-f3  * 2 Seconds
  3) .. f5-f4           f5-f4   * 0 Seconds
  4) Rd7-d2             Rd7-d2  * 60 Seconds
  5) .. f6-f5           f6-f5   * 23 Seconds
  6) Qf3-f6             Qf3-f4   
  7) Bd6xe5(?)          Ba6-d3  * 32 Seconds
  8) Rb8-b1             Rb8-h8   
  9) Ng5xf7             Bf5-g4   
 10) g7-g8N             g7-g8N  * 15 Seconds
 11) Ra4xa8             Ra4xe4   
 12) .. Qa2-a3          Qa2-a5   
 13) Ng3-f5             Qf3-d3   
 14) .. Bc8-f5, Qb8-c7  0-0      
 15) Kg4xh4(?)          Kg4-f3  * 88 Seconds
 16) Bd2xh6             Ra1-g1   
 17) Rg2xg7             Rg2xg7  * 1 Second
 18) Nb3-d4             Nb3-d4  * 92 Seconds
 19) Ng5xf7             Rd1-a1   
 20) .. Ra8-f8          Ra8-f8  * 4 Seconds
 21) .. Rd2xb2          Rd2xb2  * 63 Seconds
 22) Ng5-e6             Ng5-f3   
 23) Bd3xh7, Rf1-f6     b2-b3    
 24) Kh2-g3             Kh2-g3  * 54 Seconds
 25) Qd3xg6             h4-h5    
 26) f5-f6              Rd1-d5   
 27) c6-c7              Rd1-h1   
 28) Kc7-d7             Kc7-d7  * 7 Seconds
 29) .. Nf6-g4          Ra8-e8   
 30) .. f7-f5           f7-f5   * 64 Seconds
 31) .. Rb5xc5          Rb5xc5  * 0 Seconds
 32) Kh2-h1             Kh2-h1  * 82 Seconds
 33) Re8-e3             Re8-e6   
 34) Bd2xh6             Bd2xh6  * 2 Seconds
 35) .. e6-e5           Nb6-d5   
 36) Bh3-f1             Bh3-f1  * 83 Seconds
 37) .. Bf2-c5          Bf2-c5  * 12 Seconds
 38) .. Bc5xd6          Bc5xd6  * 0 Seconds
 39) .. Ke8-e7          Ke8-d7   
 40) Qh8-f6             Qh8xc8   
 41) b3-b4              Kg1-h1   
 42) .. Kb5-a4          Kb5-a4  * 31 Seconds
 43) Bd6-c7             Bd6-e5   
 44) .. Bb7-d5          Qc7-a5   
 45) Rh1xh5             Rb1-a1   
 46) Nf3xg5             Kd3-c2   
 47) Rd1-e1             Qa7-f7   
 48) Ne5xf7             Ne5xf7  * 14 Seconds
 49) Rc1xc5             Qb3-c2   
 50) .. Rd8-d4          Rd8-d4  * 1 Second
 51) c4-c5              Kg1-h1   
 52) Ng3-f5, Ng3xh5     Bg5-h6   
 53) f2-f3              a4-a5    
 54) .. h7-h5           0-0      
 55) f5-f6              f5-f6   * 72 Seconds
 56) d4-d5              d4-d5   * 133 Seconds
 57) Bb4-d2             Bb4-d2  * 62 Seconds
 58) Bg5-f6             Qh5-h4   
 59) Qh5-h6             Rb1-d1   
 60) Qh5-h6             Qh5-f3   
 61) Rc1xc6             b2-b4    
 62) Nd2-c4             g2-g4    
 63) .. Rf8xf3          Rf8xf3  * 61 Seconds
 64) Qa2-f7             Qa2-f7  * 9 Seconds
 65) .. d5xc4           d5xc4   * 126 Seconds
 66) Re1-e6             Qf4xb4   
 67) Na3xb5             Na3xb5  * 66 Seconds
 68) Rd5-h5             Nf3-d2   
 69) .. Ra8-a6          Ra8-a6  * 93 Seconds
 70) g3-g4              g3-g4   * 33 Seconds
 71) .. Kf6-e6, Kf6-e7  Kf6-e7  * 28 Seconds
 72) Bc1-h6             Bc1-h6  * 5 Seconds
 73) .. h7-h6           h7-h6   * 3 Seconds
 74) Kb3-c2             Kb3-c3   
 75) Kh7-h6             Kh7-h6  * 15 Seconds
 76) c3-c4              c3-c4   * 1 Second
 77) Rc1xc6             Ng5xh7   
 78) Rf4xf6             Rf4xf6  * 0 Seconds
 79) Rf4-g4             Rf4-g4  * 11 Seconds
 80) Ka3-b2             Ka3xa2   
 81) .. Ne8-c7          Ra5-a4   
 82) Kd5-c6             Nf5-g3   
 83) Ng4xh6             Ng4-e3   
 84) Nh6-f5             Kg1-f1   
 85) Be6xf5             Be6xd5   
 86) Nf7-d6             Rg3-f3   
 87) Ra1-c1             Ra1-c1  * 76 Seconds
 88) .. Bc8-b7          e6xd5    
 89) h2-h4              Na7-b5   
 90) .. Bd7xg4          Nh5-f6   
40 of 90 matching moves
8/9/2007 10:38:41 PM, Total time: 4:23:17 AM Rated time: 2:55:24 = 10524 Seconds

[Uri Blass]

Note that movei does not solve f5 in 3 minutes

Here is analysis of movei with 128 mbytes hash
Hopefully it can find f5 at depth 19

I will later compare with 512 mbytes hash

New game
[d]8/3R1P2/1ppP1p2/3r4/8/8/K4k2/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Movei00_8_438:

1...Rd5-a5+
+- (2.28) Depth: 1 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (1.98) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
± (1.28) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8
± (0.84) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8
± (0.84) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
± (1.14) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (1.84) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-c7
+- (1.86) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-c7
+- (1.86) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (1.56) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-a7 Ra8-d8
+- (1.56) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-a7 Ra8-d8
+- (1.56) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (1.86) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c3
+- (2.02) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c3
+- (2.02) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c4 f6-f5
+- (1.87) Depth: 6 00:00:00 6kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c4 f6-f5
+- (1.87) Depth: 6 00:00:00 8kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c4 f6-f5 5.Kc4-c3
+- (1.74) Depth: 7 00:00:00 14kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c4 f6-f5 5.Kc4-c3
+- (1.74) Depth: 7 00:00:00 16kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (2.04) Depth: 8 00:00:00 20kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (2.74) Depth: 8 00:00:00 24kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Rf8-h8 5.Re7-e8 Rh8-h3+ 6.Kb3-b4 c6-c5+ 7.Kb4-c4
+- (5.36) Depth: 8 00:00:00 31kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Rf8-h8 5.Re7-e8 Rh8-h3+ 6.Kb3-b4 c6-c5+ 7.Kb4-c4
+- (5.36) Depth: 8 00:00:00 43kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Rf8-h8
+- (5.36) Depth: 9 00:00:00 53kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Rf8-h8
+- (5.36) Depth: 9 00:00:00 68kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (5.66) Depth: 10 00:00:00 88kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (6.36) Depth: 10 00:00:00 113kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 b6-b5 5.Re7-e8 Rf8xf7 6.d7-d8Q
+- (7.78) Depth: 10 00:00:00 149kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 b6-b5 5.Re7-e8 Rf8xf7 6.d7-d8Q
+- (7.78) Depth: 10 00:00:00 191kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (7.48) Depth: 11 00:00:00 203kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (8.08) Depth: 11 00:00:00 250kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (8.08) Depth: 11 00:00:00 328kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Kf2-f3
+- (8.08) Depth: 12 00:00:00 400kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Kf2-f3
+- (8.08) Depth: 12 00:00:01 515kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (8.38) Depth: 13 00:00:01 841kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Kf2-f3 5.Re7-e8 Rf8xf7 6.d7-d8Q Kf3-g4 7.Re8-g8+ Kg4-f5 8.Qd8-c8+ Kf5-e5 9.Qc8xc6
+- (8.91) Depth: 13 00:00:01 1049kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Kf2-f3 5.Re7-e8 Rf8xf7 6.d7-d8Q Kf3-g4 7.Re8-g8+ Kg4-f5 8.Qd8-c8+ Kf5-e5 9.Qc8xc6
+- (8.91) Depth: 13 00:00:03 1348kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (9.21) Depth: 14 00:00:03 1726kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (9.91) Depth: 14 00:00:04 2454kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 f6-f5 4.Re7-e8 Ra8-a5 5.f7-f8Q Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-a2 Rb5-a5+ 7.Ka2-b3 Ra5-b5+ 8.Kb3-c4 Rb5-c5+ 9.Kc4-d3 Rc5-d5+ 10.Kd3-c2 Kf2-g3 11.Qf8-g7+ Kg3-f4
+- (10.14) Depth: 14 00:00:07 3902kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 f6-f5 4.Re7-e8 Ra8-a5 5.f7-f8Q Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-a2 Rb5-a5+ 7.Ka2-b3 Ra5-b5+ 8.Kb3-c4 Rb5-c5+ 9.Kc4-d3 Rc5-d5+ 10.Kd3-c2 Kf2-g3 11.Qf8-g7+ Kg3-f4
+- (10.14) Depth: 14 00:00:13 6385kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 f6-f5 4.Re7-e8 Ra8-a5 5.f7-f8Q Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-a2 Rb5-a5+ 7.Ka2-b3
+- (10.14) Depth: 15 00:00:16 7673kN
1...f6-f5
+- (10.13) Depth: 15 00:00:26 11735kN
1...f6-f5
+- (9.84) Depth: 15 00:00:30 14023kN
1...f6-f5 2.Rd7-a7 Rd5xd6 3.f7-f8Q Rd6-d2+ 4.Ka2-b3 Rd2-d5 5.Ra7-f7 Kf2-e2 6.Qf8-e8+ Ke2-d3 7.Qe8xc6
+- (9.90) Depth: 15 00:01:37 48020kN
1...f6-f5 2.Rd7-a7 Rd5xd6 3.f7-f8Q Rd6-d2+ 4.Ka2-b3 Rd2-d5 5.Ra7-f7 Kf2-e2 6.Qf8-e8+ Ke2-d3 7.Qe8xc6
+- (9.90) Depth: 15 00:01:40 48952kN
1...f6-f5 2.Rd7-a7 Rd5xd6 3.f7-f8Q Rd6-d2+ 4.Ka2-b3 Rd2-d5 5.Ra7-f7 Kf2-e2 6.Qf8-e8+ Ke2-d3 7.Qe8xc6 Rd5-c5 8.Rf7-d7+ Kd3-e2 9.Rd7-e7+ Ke2-f1
+- (10.14) Depth: 16 00:01:53 55365kN
1...f6-f5 2.Rd7-a7 Rd5xd6 3.f7-f8Q Rd6-d2+ 4.Ka2-b3 Rd2-d5 5.Ra7-f7 Kf2-e2 6.Qf8-e8+ Ke2-d3 7.Qe8xc6 Rd5-c5 8.Rf7-d7+ Kd3-e2 9.Rd7-e7+ Ke2-f1
+- (10.14) Depth: 16 00:02:06 61130kN
1...f6-f5
+- (10.44) Depth: 17 00:02:13 64591kN
1...f6-f5 2.Rd7-a7 Rd5-e5 3.f7-f8Q Re5-e2+ 4.Ka2-b1 Re2-e1+ 5.Kb1-c2 Re1-e2+ 6.Kc2-c3 Re2-e3+ 7.Kc3-b4
+- (9.98) Depth: 17 00:07:15 208330kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (9.97) Depth: 17 00:07:30 214932kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (9.68) Depth: 17 00:07:32 216319kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 f6-f5 3.Rd7-a7 Ra5xa7 4.f7-f8Q Ra7-a5 5.d6-d7 Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-c3 Rb5-d5 7.d7-d8Q Rd5xd8 8.Qf8xd8 Kf2-f3 9.Qd8xb6 f5-f4 10.Qb6xc6+ Kf3-g3 11.Qc6-g6+ Kg3-f3
+- (9.17) Depth: 17 00:07:45 222625kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 f6-f5 3.Rd7-a7 Ra5xa7 4.f7-f8Q Ra7-a5 5.d6-d7 Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-c3 Rb5-d5 7.d7-d8Q Rd5xd8 8.Qf8xd8 Kf2-f3 9.Qd8xb6 f5-f4 10.Qb6xc6+ Kf3-g3 11.Qc6-g6+ Kg3-f3
+- (9.17) Depth: 17 00:07:50 225358kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (9.47) Depth: 18 00:07:58 229137kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 f6-f5 3.Rd7-a7 Ra5xa7 4.f7-f8Q Ra7-a5 5.d6-d7 Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-c3 Rb5-d5 7.d7-d8Q Rd5xd8 8.Qf8xf5+ Kf2-e2 9.Qf5-e5+ Ke2-d1 10.Qe5-h5+ Kd1-e1
+- (9.47) Depth: 18 00:08:09 234752kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 f6-f5 3.Rd7-a7 Ra5xa7 4.f7-f8Q Ra7-a5 5.d6-d7 Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-c3 Rb5-d5 7.d7-d8Q Rd5xd8 8.Qf8xf5+ Kf2-e2 9.Qf5-e5+ Ke2-d1 10.Qe5-h5+ Kd1-e1
+- (9.47) Depth: 18 00:08:29 243451kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (9.77) Depth: 19 00:08:53 254268kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (10.47) Depth: 19 00:09:55 282377kN

(, 10.08.2007)

[Uri Blass]

It seems that the question if movei solves f5 depends on hash size

It needs 40 minutes with 128 mbytes hash
Here is the rest of the analysis
New game
8/3R1P2/1ppP1p2/3r4/8/8/K4k2/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Movei00_8_438:

1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-b5+ 3.Kb2-c3 f6-f5 4.Rd7-a7
+- (12.62) Depth: 19 00:34:51 952775kN
1...f6-f5
+- (12.61) Depth: 19 00:40:09 1094987kN
1...f6-f5
+- (12.32) Depth: 19 00:40:41 1109411kN

(, 10.08.2007)



with 512 mbytes hash it does not change it's mind at depth 17 so I can say that it solves it significantly faster(no draw score is needed and you only need to see that alterantives are worse)

New game
8/3R1P2/1ppP1p2/3r4/8/8/K4k2/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Movei00_8_438:

1...Rd5-a5+
+- (2.28) Depth: 1 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (1.98) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
± (1.28) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8
± (0.84) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8
± (0.84) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
± (1.14) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (1.84) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-c7
+- (1.86) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-c7
+- (1.86) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (1.56) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-a7 Ra8-d8
+- (1.56) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-a7 Ra8-d8
+- (1.56) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (1.86) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c3
+- (2.02) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c3
+- (2.02) Depth: 5 00:00:01
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c4 f6-f5
+- (1.87) Depth: 6 00:00:01 6kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c4 f6-f5
+- (1.87) Depth: 6 00:00:01 8kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c4 f6-f5 5.Kc4-c3
+- (1.74) Depth: 7 00:00:01 14kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.Kb3-c4 f6-f5 5.Kc4-c3
+- (1.74) Depth: 7 00:00:01 16kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (2.04) Depth: 8 00:00:01 20kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (2.74) Depth: 8 00:00:01 24kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Rf8-h8 5.Re7-e8 Rh8-h3+ 6.Kb3-b4 c6-c5+ 7.Kb4-c4
+- (5.36) Depth: 8 00:00:01 31kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Rf8-h8 5.Re7-e8 Rh8-h3+ 6.Kb3-b4 c6-c5+ 7.Kb4-c4
+- (5.36) Depth: 8 00:00:01 43kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Rf8-h8
+- (5.36) Depth: 9 00:00:01 53kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Rf8-h8
+- (5.36) Depth: 9 00:00:01 68kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (5.66) Depth: 10 00:00:01 88kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (6.36) Depth: 10 00:00:01 113kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 b6-b5 5.Re7-e8 Rf8xf7 6.d7-d8Q
+- (7.78) Depth: 10 00:00:01 149kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 b6-b5 5.Re7-e8 Rf8xf7 6.d7-d8Q
+- (7.78) Depth: 10 00:00:01 191kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (7.48) Depth: 11 00:00:01 203kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (8.08) Depth: 11 00:00:01 250kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (8.08) Depth: 11 00:00:01 328kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Kf2-f3
+- (8.08) Depth: 12 00:00:01 400kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b3 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Kf2-f3
+- (8.08) Depth: 12 00:00:02 515kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (8.38) Depth: 13 00:00:02 841kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Kf2-f3 5.Re7-e8 Rf8xf7 6.d7-d8Q Kf3-g4 7.Re8-g8+ Kg4-f5 8.Qd8-c8+ Kf5-e5 9.Qc8xc6
+- (8.91) Depth: 13 00:00:02 1049kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 Ra8-f8 4.d6-d7 Kf2-f3 5.Re7-e8 Rf8xf7 6.d7-d8Q Kf3-g4 7.Re8-g8+ Kg4-f5 8.Qd8-c8+ Kf5-e5 9.Qc8xc6
+- (8.91) Depth: 13 00:00:03 1348kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (9.21) Depth: 14 00:00:04 1726kN
1...Rd5-a5+
+- (9.91) Depth: 14 00:00:05 2454kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 f6-f5 4.Re7-e8 Ra8-a5 5.f7-f8Q Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-a2 Rb5-a5+ 7.Ka2-b3 Ra5-b5+ 8.Kb3-c4 Rb5-c5+ 9.Kc4-d3 Rc5-d5+ 10.Kd3-c2 Kf2-g3 11.Qf8-g7+ Kg3-f4
+- (10.14) Depth: 14 00:00:08 3902kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 f6-f5 4.Re7-e8 Ra8-a5 5.f7-f8Q Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-a2 Rb5-a5+ 7.Ka2-b3 Ra5-b5+ 8.Kb3-c4 Rb5-c5+ 9.Kc4-d3 Rc5-d5+ 10.Kd3-c2 Kf2-g3 11.Qf8-g7+ Kg3-f4
+- (10.14) Depth: 14 00:00:15 6385kN
1...Rd5-a5+ 2.Ka2-b2 Ra5-a8 3.Rd7-e7 f6-f5 4.Re7-e8 Ra8-a5 5.f7-f8Q Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb2-a2 Rb5-a5+ 7.Ka2-b3
+- (10.14) Depth: 15 00:00:18 7673kN
1...f6-f5
+- (10.13) Depth: 15 00:00:28 11492kN
1...f6-f5
+- (9.84) Depth: 15 00:00:33 13827kN
1...f6-f5 2.Rd7-a7 Rd5xd6 3.f7-f8Q Rd6-d2+ 4.Ka2-b3 Rd2-d5 5.Qf8-h6 Rd5-b5+ 6.Kb3-a2 Rb5-d5 7.Qh6-f4+ Kf2-e2 8.Ra7-e7+
+- (9.71) Depth: 15 00:01:56 49743kN
1...f6-f5 2.Rd7-a7 Rd5xd6 3.f7-f8Q Rd6-d2+ 4.Ka2-b3 Rd2-d5 5.Qf8-h6 Rd5-b5+ 6.Kb3-a2 Rb5-d5 7.Qh6-f4+ Kf2-e2 8.Ra7-e7+
+- (9.71) Depth: 15 00:01:58 50630kN
1...f6-f5
+- (10.01) Depth: 16 00:02:01 51799kN
1...f6-f5 2.Rd7-a7 Rd5xd6 3.f7-f8Q Rd6-d2+ 4.Ka2-b3 Rd2-d5 5.Qf8-h6 Rd5-b5+ 6.Kb3-a2 Rb5-d5 7.Qh6-h2+ Kf2-e3 8.Ra7-a3+ Ke3-e4 9.Qh2-e2+ Ke4-f4 10.Qe2-e3+ Kf4-g4 11.Qe3-h3+
+- (10.01) Depth: 16 00:03:40 99894kN
1...f6-f5 2.Rd7-a7 Rd5xd6 3.f7-f8Q Rd6-d2+ 4.Ka2-b3 Rd2-d5 5.Qf8-h6 Rd5-b5+ 6.Kb3-a2 Rb5-d5 7.Qh6-h2+ Kf2-e3 8.Ra7-a3+ Ke3-e4 9.Qh2-e2+ Ke4-f4 10.Qe2-e3+ Kf4-g4 11.Qe3-h3+
+- (10.01) Depth: 16 00:03:48 103636kN
1...f6-f5 2.f7-f8Q Rd5-a5+ 3.Ka2-b1 Ra5-b5+ 4.Kb1-c1 Rb5-c5+ 5.Kc1-d2 Rc5-d5+ 6.Kd2-c2 Rd5-c5+ 7.Kc2-d3 Rc5-d5+ 8.Kd3-c3 Rd5-c5+ 9.Kc3-b4 Rc5-b5+
+- (10.01) Depth: 17 00:05:06 139434kN
1...f6-f5 2.f7-f8Q Rd5-a5+ 3.Ka2-b1 Ra5-b5+ 4.Kb1-c1 Rb5-c5+ 5.Kc1-d2 Rc5-d5+ 6.Kd2-c2 Rd5-c5+ 7.Kc2-d3 Rc5-d5+ 8.Kd3-c3 Rd5-c5+ 9.Kc3-b4 Rc5-b5+
+- (10.01) Depth: 17 00:05:16 143669kN
1...f6-f5 2.f7-f8Q Rd5-a5+ 3.Ka2-b1 Ra5-b5+ 4.Kb1-c1 Rb5-c5+ 5.Kc1-d2 Rc5-d5+ 6.Kd2-c2 Rd5-c5+ 7.Kc2-d3
+- (10.01) Depth: 18 00:05:48 158649kN
1...f6-f5 2.f7-f8Q Rd5-a5+ 3.Ka2-b1 Ra5-b5+ 4.Kb1-c1 Rb5-c5+ 5.Kc1-d2 Rc5-d5+ 6.Kd2-c2 Rd5-c5+ 7.Kc2-d3
+- (10.01) Depth: 18 00:06:09 168385kN
1...f6-f5 2.f7-f8Q Rd5-a5+ 3.Ka2-b1 Ra5-b5+ 4.Kb1-c1 Rb5-c5+ 5.Kc1-d2 Rc5-d5+ 6.Kd2-c2 Rd5-c5+ 7.Kc2-d3
+- (10.01) Depth: 19 00:07:24 195476kN
1...f6-f5 2.f7-f8Q Rd5-a5+ 3.Ka2-b1 Ra5-b5+ 4.Kb1-c1 Rb5-c5+ 5.Kc1-d2 Rc5-d5+ 6.Kd2-c2 Rd5-c5+ 7.Kc2-d3
+- (10.01) Depth: 19 00:08:07 213444kN
1...f6-f5 2.f7-f8Q Rd5-a5+ 3.Ka2-b1 Ra5-b5+ 4.Kb1-c1 Rb5-c5+ 5.Kc1-d2 Rc5-d5+ 6.Kd2-c2 Rd5-c5+ 7.Kc2-d3 Rc5-d5+ 8.Kd3-c3 Rd5-c5+ 9.Kc3-b4 Rc5-b5+ 10.Kb4-c4 Rb5-c5+ 11.Kc4-b3 Rc5-b5+ 12.Kb3-a3
+- (10.01) Depth: 20 00:10:52 266456kN

(, 10.08.2007)

[BBauer]

How does white win with Rd2 in the following position?

[d]4k1rr/1R1R3p/8/8/8/2K5/7P/8 w k - 0 1

regards

Bernhard

[George Tsavdaris]

How does white win with Rd2 in the following position?

[d]4k1rr/1R1R3p/8/8/8/2K5/7P/8 w k - 0 1

Copy and paste it to Chessbase/Fritz GUI for example, in order the annotations to clearly appear:


[Event "15'/40+15'/40+15'/40"]
[Site "Thessaloniki"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4k1rr/1R1R3p/8/8/8/2K5/7P/8 w k - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "13"]
[TimeControl "40/900:40/900:40/900"]

1. Rd2 $3 Rf8 {Only move.} 2. Kc2 $1 h6 (2... Rfg8 3. Kb2 Rf8 4. Ra7 Rfg8 5.
Ka2 $18) (2... Rhg8 3. Kb2 Rh8 4. Ra7 $18) (2... h5 3. h4 {
The same continuaiton with the 2...h6 main line.}) 3. h3 h5 (3... Rhg8 4. Kb2
Rh8 5. Ra7 Rhg8 6. Ka2 $18) (3... Rfg8 4. Kb2 Rf8 5. Ra7 Rhg8 6. Ka2 $18) 4. h4
Rfg8 (4... Rhg8 5. Kb2 Rh8 6. Ra7 $1 Rhg8 7. Ka2 $1 $18) 5. Kb2 Rf8 6. Ra7 Rhg8
7. Ka2 $18 *