Will CCC explode now? :-)

[Uri Blass]

check 1.8

I cannot find it also in 1.8
I cannot even find the string Random32 in 1.8

[Ryan Benitez]

I just sent it to your gmail so you can verify.

[Uri Blass]

I just sent it to your gmail so you can verify.

Thanks

I see that you simply have different source than the source that I have as 1.8

Your source is probably later than my source because it does not have xoring with random numbers that my source has in strelka.c.

Uri

[Christopher Conkie]

The next days and weeks will be hot Will CCC survive this or perish in desparation and anarchy? Maybe I should quit for a while, at least for the rest of January. But I expect one 'number of postings per hour record' after the other. Smoking keyboards!

C U in February.

Come on Mike you can't leave now.

Aha,the party didn't begin yet

Party? Did someone say party? Can I come please?

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

The next days and weeks will be hot Will CCC survive this or perish in desparation and anarchy? Maybe I should quit for a while, at least for the rest of January. But I expect one 'number of postings per hour record' after the other. Smoking keyboards!

C U in February.

Come on Mike you can't leave now.

Aha,the party didn't begin yet

Party? Did someone say party? Can I come please?

You are most welcomed Christopher

[Dirt]

Fruit use this code.
<GNU Chess 5.0 source>

If GPL Fruit uses this code, and I didn't see it in Fruit 2.1, there wouldn't be a problem since GNU Chess 5.0 is also GPL. Are you saying this code is used in one of the closed source Fruits?

[pedrox]

Fruit use this code.
<GNU Chess 5.0 source>

If GPL Fruit uses this code, and I didn't see it in Fruit 2.1, there wouldn't be a problem since GNU Chess 5.0 is also GPL. Are you saying this code is used in one of the closed source Fruits?

No

Ryan put a bad example. He said Strelka used the same code that Crafty to obtain random numbers.

In chess programs there are certain functions in which many programs use algorithms and codes developed by others. For example this code appears first on GNUChess and many programs also use this code to obtain random numbers, DanaSah and surely many others. This has never been considered a problem if you has permission from the authors or the code is free.

Another function, bioskey, many programs use to check if they receive something while they are on ponder, first program to use it I think it was Olithink and then has been used by many programs. No problem with that.

What I also asked Ryan is, if we question whether every line of code has to be original, because it is then allowed to use the programs code of Namilov to access egtbs?. (Ryan uses this code in versions private Fruit as all the programmers who use tables of Namilov)

[Dirt]

No

Ryan put a bad example. He said Strelka used the same code that Crafty to obtain random numbers.

In chess programs there are certain functions in which many programs use algorithms and codes developed by others. For example this code appears first on GNUChess and many programs also use this code to obtain random numbers, DanaSah and surely many others. This has never been considered a problem if you has permission from the authors or the code is free.

Another function, bioskey, many programs use to check if they receive something while they are on ponder, first program to use it I think it was Olithink and then has been used by many programs. No problem with that.

What I also asked Ryan is, if we question whether every line of code has to be original, because it is then allowed to use the programs code of Namilov to access egtbs?. (Ryan uses this code in versions private Fruit as all the programmers who use tables of Namilov)

Ok, I understand now.

I agree that it is questionable whether there is enough creativity in the code Ryan posted for there to be a copyright issue. However, it does seem to be generally accepted that permission is required to us Dr. Nalimov's EGTB access code, as I have seen several posts in the past asking how to get it.

[Dann Corbit]

No

Ryan put a bad example. He said Strelka used the same code that Crafty to obtain random numbers.

In chess programs there are certain functions in which many programs use algorithms and codes developed by others. For example this code appears first on GNUChess and many programs also use this code to obtain random numbers, DanaSah and surely many others. This has never been considered a problem if you has permission from the authors or the code is free.

Another function, bioskey, many programs use to check if they receive something while they are on ponder, first program to use it I think it was Olithink and then has been used by many programs. No problem with that.

What I also asked Ryan is, if we question whether every line of code has to be original, because it is then allowed to use the programs code of Namilov to access egtbs?. (Ryan uses this code in versions private Fruit as all the programmers who use tables of Namilov)

Ok, I understand now.

I agree that it is questionable whether there is enough creativity in the code Ryan posted for there to be a copyright issue. However, it does seem to be generally accepted that permission is required to us Dr. Nalimov's EGTB access code, as I have seen several posts in the past asking how to get it.

If you use a five line routine, verbatim, without permission, that is a copyright violation for that routine.

If you go to the same source that was used to create a given routine, and create the same thing, the code may look nearly identical (or in the case of a trivial routine it may be exactly identical) but that is not a copyright violation.

For example, in the cited code we have this:

Code: Select all

/**************************************************************************** 
 * 
 *  A 32 bit random number generator.  An implementation in C of the 
 *  algorithm given by Knuth, the art of computer programming, vol. 2, 
 *  pp. 26-27.  We use e=32, so we have to evaluate y(n) = y(n-24) + y(n-55) 
 *  mod 2^32, which is implicitly done by unsigned arithmetic. 
 * 
 ****************************************************************************/ 
{ 
/* 
 *  Random numbers from Mathematica 2.0 
 *  SeedRandom = 1; 
 *  Table[Random[Integer, {0, 2^32 - 1}] 
 */ 

Now, if we go to Knuth and write the algorithm and if we use mathematica to create the same table of random numbers (though the Mersenne Twister would undoubtably create better ones) , then we will certainly arrive at the same thing.

Another question we might ask is "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" in this case -- the table of random numbers at hand and the code that relates to it.

A bit of poking around shows gnuchess-4.0.pl75 has a little history lesson in it:
/*
This code copied from:

G. Wiesenekker. ZZZZZZ a chess program.
Copyright (C) 1993 G. Wiesenekker
E-mail: wiesenecker@sara.nl

A 32 bit random number generator. An implementation in C of the algorithm given
Knuth, the art of computer programming, vol. 2, pp. 26-27. We use e=32, so
we have to evaluate y(n) = y(n - 24) + y(n - 55) mod 2^32, which is implicitly
done by unsigned arithmetic.
*/

Gnu4sc (the previous version, so far as I know) does not have this.

I guess that both Crafty and GnuChess got the random number thing from G. Wiesenekker.

I do not know if it is possible that with source code you can have fair use just like with literature (e.g. use a small bit if you credit the source).

At any rate, it is a complex issue. The truth of the matter is that all programs have collected ideas from other places in order to become a chess program. Some will be from looking at other people's source code and some will be from reading books, magazines or technical articles. Finally, some will be from talking to other chess programmers.