Zugzwang detection

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Uri Blass
Posts: 11153
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Zugzwang detection

Post by Uri Blass »

Cubeman wrote:
Uri wrote:
Uri Blass wrote:You are clearly wrong.
1)There is no need to invest time on endgame to solve this position
Every program that I know except special buggy untested toga can solve it.
All other Toga versions i have (Toga 3.1.2SE, Toga 1.4.1SE and Toga II 1.4 beta5d) couldn't see it's a win for white in this position.

[d]8/2K5/4k2p/4p1p1/4P1P1/5P1P/8/8 b - - 0 56
Even with this 2nd position the same versions of Toga I have still see that White is clearly winning first evals are +4.98 then +5.23 at D=22 then +11.04 at D=23 and time 90 seconds.
You probably need the game that is hidden from us in order to see a draw score.

I assume that many programs see a draw in that case and I gave explanation in my last post in this thread.

Uri
Uri
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Re: Zugzwang detection

Post by Uri »

Here in this game Toga II and Shredder 10 think that after 56. Kc7 it's a draw but after 56...Ke7 57. Kc6 wins for white. Here's the game:

[Event "Rated game, 20m + 0s"]
[Date "2008.03.01"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B28"]
[WhiteElo "1722"]
[BlackElo "1691"]
[PlyCount "145"]
[EventDate "2008.03.01"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. c4 a6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. d3 Nc6 6. Be2 g6 7. O-O Bg7 8. h3 O-O 9. Rb1 Bd7 10. a3 Qc7 11. b4 b6 12. b5 axb5 13. Nxb5 Qb7 14. Bd2 Ne8 15. Qc2 Nc7 16. a4 Ne6 17.Rfc1 f5 18. Ng5 Ncd4 19. Qd1 Nxg5 20. Bxg5 fxe4 21. Bxe7 Bxb5 22. Bxf8 Bxa4 23. Qd2 Nb3 24. Rxb3 Bxb3 25. Bxg7 Qxg7 26. dxe4 Ra2 27. Qd5+ Kh8 28. Bf3 Ra1 29. Rxa1 Qxa1+ 30. Kh2 Qe5+ 31. Qxe5+ dxe5 32. Be2 Bc2 33. f3 g5 34. Kg3 Kg7 35. Kg4 Kg6 36. Kg3 Kg7 37. Kf2 Kh6 38. Ke3 Ba4 39. Kd2 Bc6 40. Kc3 Bd7 41. Bd1 Kg6 42. g4 Kf6 43. Bb3 Ke7 44. Kb2 b5 45. cxb5 Bxb5 46. Kc3 Be2 47. Bg8 h6 48. Bh7 Kd6 49. Bg8 Bb5 50. Bc4 Bxc4 51. Kxc4 Kc6 52. Kb3 c4+ 53. Kxc4 Kd6 54. Kb5 Ke7 55. Kc6 Ke6 56. Kc7 Ke7 57. Kc6 Ke6 58. Kc5 Kf6 59. Kd5 Kf7 60. Kxe5 Kg6 61. Ke6 h5 62. gxh5+ Kxh5 63. Kf5 Kh6 64. e5 Kg7 65. Kxg5 Kf7 66. f4 Ke6 67. h4 Kf7 68. f5 Ke7 69. Kg6 Kd7 70. Kf7 Kc6 71. e6 Kc5 72. e7 Kc6 73. e8=Q+ {black resigns} 1-0