First a God, now a scoundrel

[Graham Banks]

I would not say "poor Rolf", I´d rather say "poor poeple" who are treated by psychologist like Rolf.

People are mistreated by anonymous cloners and others and they are then helpd by a psychologist who keeps an eye on the logical nonsense these anonymous chess cyber terrorists are using. It was a pleasure to help you, so nothing of poor or such. It was honor to help in such a case.

They are "poor people" because you are treating them while you are not able to treat yourself. If you knew you would know how to distinguish reality from your wrong perception.

You should take a look at yourself in the mirror before you start criticising others.

[bob]

Funny to see so diverse opinions about Vas and how some changed in time.
If you have asked me, though I believed Vas when he announced the best engine ever, with his beta 1, I never believed he would be different in anything to any other guy when money is at stake.
If there is a nasty and -for me -despicable activity is business.
It poison everything.

I say only this...
fern

Not only business, the poison is everywhere. It's like the air or God. Look, Bob is so poisoned that he prefers to deal with students and holding classes just because the money is his fetish. But you can always step out and make another choice. Bob could have come for the debate. But no, the poison was coming. It was already there. So Vas got it all. Poor Bob.

Your ignorance continues to amaze me. So I should just dump a class, which is a review for final exams, and tell the students "So what if you paid your hard-earned money to take this course, Rolf has set up an online discussion that is more important than your education"???

Please grow up and act like a responsible adult. I have a job that I take seriously. Not sure what you mean by "poor bob" however. "Poor Rolf" would likely be understood by all, however.

Thanks Bob for what you have done for Chess.
Thanks Bob for taking your students serious therefore:
Making the world a better place.
There is no other field more important than Education.
I am sure you have many many students that have
thanked you for the guidances you have given them.

Very Best to you.

Gerold.

I've always had this "strange view" of education that says "The students come first." Probably because that is how I was treated as I went thru my first 4 years of university-taught courses. Not everyone agrees. Some believe "This would be a damned nice place to work if it weren't for all these students". And their classes show that perception. And the students avoid those courses whenever possible.

However, in my case, students are not afraid to stop by my office to chat, even about non-CS topics. I'm not their mother or father, but I am also not their enemy, and that seems to work.

[michiguel]

Funny to see so diverse opinions about Vas and how some changed in time.
If you have asked me, though I believed Vas when he announced the best engine ever, with his beta 1, I never believed he would be different in anything to any other guy when money is at stake.
If there is a nasty and -for me -despicable activity is business.
It poison everything.

I say only this...
fern

Not only business, the poison is everywhere. It's like the air or God. Look, Bob is so poisoned that he prefers to deal with students and holding classes just because the money is his fetish. But you can always step out and make another choice. Bob could have come for the debate. But no, the poison was coming. It was already there. So Vas got it all. Poor Bob.

Your ignorance continues to amaze me. So I should just dump a class, which is a review for final exams, and tell the students "So what if you paid your hard-earned money to take this course, Rolf has set up an online discussion that is more important than your education"???

Please grow up and act like a responsible adult. I have a job that I take seriously. Not sure what you mean by "poor bob" however. "Poor Rolf" would likely be understood by all, however.

Thanks Bob for what you have done for Chess.
Thanks Bob for taking your students serious therefore:
Making the world a better place.
There is no other field more important than Education.
I am sure you have many many students that have
thanked you for the guidances you have given them.

Very Best to you.

Gerold.

I've always had this "strange view" of education that says "The students come first." Probably because that is how I was treated as I went thru my first 4 years of university-taught courses. Not everyone agrees. Some believe "This would be a damned nice place to work if it weren't for all these students". And their classes show that perception. And the students avoid those courses whenever possible.

However, in my case, students are not afraid to stop by my office to chat, even about non-CS topics. I'm not their mother or father, but I am also not their enemy, and that seems to work.

What course/s are you teaching?

Miguel

[Rolf]

However, in my case, students are not afraid to stop by my office to chat, even about non-CS topics. I'm not their mother or father, but I am also not their enemy, and that seems to work.

I think it's not your students who come to mind if hate is being discussed but in case of Vas I would like to see something more of the Uncle Bob, or Uncle Sam, like nice behavior but I cant see it. But then I am not familiar with the rough climate among programmers. Somehow the picture of the old and deceived former trainer of the now finally succeeding World Champion comes to mind when you say

he took all the good out of me
and now I'm sitting here all alone
on the dock of the bay.

I have nothing against commercial wimps
but open sources are the real hype
on the dock of the bay.

I cant get no fish out of the river
when I get home I see Rybka in a fever
on the dock of the bay.

[bob]

Funny to see so diverse opinions about Vas and how some changed in time.
If you have asked me, though I believed Vas when he announced the best engine ever, with his beta 1, I never believed he would be different in anything to any other guy when money is at stake.
If there is a nasty and -for me -despicable activity is business.
It poison everything.

I say only this...
fern

Not only business, the poison is everywhere. It's like the air or God. Look, Bob is so poisoned that he prefers to deal with students and holding classes just because the money is his fetish. But you can always step out and make another choice. Bob could have come for the debate. But no, the poison was coming. It was already there. So Vas got it all. Poor Bob.

Your ignorance continues to amaze me. So I should just dump a class, which is a review for final exams, and tell the students "So what if you paid your hard-earned money to take this course, Rolf has set up an online discussion that is more important than your education"???

Please grow up and act like a responsible adult. I have a job that I take seriously. Not sure what you mean by "poor bob" however. "Poor Rolf" would likely be understood by all, however.

Thanks Bob for what you have done for Chess.
Thanks Bob for taking your students serious therefore:
Making the world a better place.
There is no other field more important than Education.
I am sure you have many many students that have
thanked you for the guidances you have given them.

Very Best to you.

Gerold.

I've always had this "strange view" of education that says "The students come first." Probably because that is how I was treated as I went thru my first 4 years of university-taught courses. Not everyone agrees. Some believe "This would be a damned nice place to work if it weren't for all these students". And their classes show that perception. And the students avoid those courses whenever possible.

However, in my case, students are not afraid to stop by my office to chat, even about non-CS topics. I'm not their mother or father, but I am also not their enemy, and that seems to work.

What course/s are you teaching?

Miguel

This semester?

(1) x86 assembly language
(2) network programming (sockets, TCP/IP, UDP, RPC, SCTP, etc + some distributed computing)
(3) senior-level computer architecture.

next semester will be (1) above + operating systems.

[bob]

However, in my case, students are not afraid to stop by my office to chat, even about non-CS topics. I'm not their mother or father, but I am also not their enemy, and that seems to work.

I think it's not your students who come to mind if hate is being discussed but in case of Vas I would like to see something more of the Uncle Bob, or Uncle Sam, like nice behavior but I cant see it. But then I am not familiar with the rough climate among programmers. Somehow the picture of the old and deceived former trainer of the now finally succeeding World Champion comes to mind when you say

You seem to have a lot of "hate-related" issues. I can't think of a single person I actually hate. There are certainly classes of people in the abstract. Terrorists that use young children to deliver suicide bombs, or kill innocent civilians. But that is somewhat abstract. If you'd ask "Who do you hate?" I could not come up with a name.

[Rolf]

However, in my case, students are not afraid to stop by my office to chat, even about non-CS topics. I'm not their mother or father, but I am also not their enemy, and that seems to work.

I think it's not your students who come to mind if hate is being discussed but in case of Vas I would like to see something more of the Uncle Bob, or Uncle Sam, like nice behavior but I cant see it. But then I am not familiar with the rough climate among programmers. Somehow the picture of the old and deceived former trainer of the now finally succeeding World Champion comes to mind when you say

You seem to have a lot of "hate-related" issues. I can't think of a single person I actually hate. There are certainly classes of people in the abstract. Terrorists that use young children to deliver suicide bombs, or kill innocent civilians. But that is somewhat abstract. If you'd ask "Who do you hate?" I could not come up with a name.

That's why the question isnt asked in this direct manner. Because being asked everybody does hastily deny it.

Let me explain what we have. We have a private lynch court where people are prejudiced and prejudged and treated against their constitutional rights, in special with the archaic killer argument that if they dont quickly defend themselves then they are guilty through mere absence. I wonder why this isnt practiced everywhere since it's the most effective and for all fastest legal court system.

What we should have instead is this, since we cant prejudge someone who isnt there all we can do is postpone any further debate about the case. Like it or not but this is the way justice works. You cant hurry love but you also cant hurry pending court cases.

What the investigations are concerned of course in direct proportion to the seriousness of a crime speed is a primar factor say if there is blackmailing and someone could still possible be saved. But as the highest German court attested even then the police is NOT free to adopt methods of torture only to save a life because here the illegal use of something forbidden by the law is you may hate it but it is the highest possible offense by State authorities and absolutely forbidden.

If this is the case in such a murder case then you cant put yourself (with your buddies) on top of such a justice and hold a private lynch court all the more if "only" some software is concerned. Not because it isnt fast but because it's illegal and robs all human rights of the defendant. For the same reason in justice this still existing archaic illogical reasoning is strictly forbidden, to prejudice someone by the fact that he doesnt communicate.

With Vas it's exactly the same. You have stated in all clarity that we couldnt know unless Vas speaks. And this is a fact. So, if he doesnt speak, you cant know. Unless you follow your bias and make prejudicial guesses.

If I understand you right you are either unfamiliar with that principle as such or you think you should violate it for a higher purpose. My question were what is the purpose?

[Bill Rogers]

The only thing I find wrong with your entire post is that you sound like the "thought Police" by telling people what they can think and what they should not think.
In this country as well as most of the other countries of the world people can think whatever they so desire whether the thouught are good or somewhat evil. I am sure that at one time or another many people have thought of killing or wiping out someone that they feel is an undesirable creature in their life. This thought by itself is quite normal and does not mean that in real life they would actually do such a thing, but in one way or another it is a kind of release that helps keep them in a state of sanity.
Having experienced the thought they are now free to erase the negative feeling they had against whomever they want.
Bill

[Rolf]

That's a known problem with such phobic neuroses. Fear of schools in general, all kind of stuff. Here the other principle applies, later after being healed, having matured, even the patients will agree that schools are not the evil in the first place.
I agree that we should never condemn our little patients. Their success in life is by no way deminored or predefined by earlier illnesses. But the basic principle, the necessity of having to learn certain basics in your socialisation, cant be denied or even criticised, not to speak of doubted. Each kid is free to seek help among dogs or other animals who are eagerly waiting for kids, to feed and teach them. BTW I'm just a fan of our thorough exchanges. How I like it. You made my day. Why else we needed friends. And Vas certainly belongs into that category.

[bob]

However, in my case, students are not afraid to stop by my office to chat, even about non-CS topics. I'm not their mother or father, but I am also not their enemy, and that seems to work.

I think it's not your students who come to mind if hate is being discussed but in case of Vas I would like to see something more of the Uncle Bob, or Uncle Sam, like nice behavior but I cant see it. But then I am not familiar with the rough climate among programmers. Somehow the picture of the old and deceived former trainer of the now finally succeeding World Champion comes to mind when you say

You seem to have a lot of "hate-related" issues. I can't think of a single person I actually hate. There are certainly classes of people in the abstract. Terrorists that use young children to deliver suicide bombs, or kill innocent civilians. But that is somewhat abstract. If you'd ask "Who do you hate?" I could not come up with a name.

That's why the question isnt asked in this direct manner. Because being asked everybody does hastily deny it.

Let me explain what we have. We have a private lynch court where people are prejudiced and prejudged and treated against their constitutional rights, in special with the archaic killer argument that if they dont quickly defend themselves then they are guilty through mere absence. I wonder why this isnt practiced everywhere since it's the most effective and for all fastest legal court system.

Please tell me the _difference_ between the following two cases:

(1) a new and unknown program bursts on the scene for a year, is extremely weak. Suddenly it jumps to the overall top of the world of computer chess. A careful investigation has proved that parts of a GPL program (fruit) are in the first version of this new program.

(2) a new and unknown program bursts on the scene and is 70 Elo above the best in the world. A single person claims that this is a clone of his program, yet offers absolutely no evidence to support this, months after the claim was made.

So in (1) above, evidence _was_ provided. In (2) Nothing was provided. Yet case (2), according to you, is a slam dunk and Robo* should be eradicated from the face of the planet, while (1) above is unfair persecution?

You have about the most twisted sense of reality of anyone I have ever seen. I realize that when your reality is that badly misperceived, that it is impossible for you to realize that this is not the way things are. But you are _way_ out there. Experienced computer people offer plenty of evidence in case (1), a single person offers _zero_ evidence in case (2). And yet case (2) is the one that needs to be believed, to the harm of its authors???

What we should have instead is this, since we cant prejudge someone who isnt there all we can do is postpone any further debate about the case. Like it or not but this is the way justice works. You cant hurry love but you also cant hurry pending court cases.

What the investigations are concerned of course in direct proportion to the seriousness of a crime speed is a primar factor say if there is blackmailing and someone could still possible be saved. But as the highest German court attested even then the police is NOT free to adopt methods of torture only to save a life because here the illegal use of something forbidden by the law is you may hate it but it is the highest possible offense by State authorities and absolutely forbidden.

If this is the case in such a murder case then you cant put yourself (with your buddies) on top of such a justice and hold a private lynch court all the more if "only" some software is concerned. Not because it isnt fast but because it's illegal and robs all human rights of the defendant. For the same reason in justice this still existing archaic illogical reasoning is strictly forbidden, to prejudice someone by the fact that he doesnt communicate.

Again, "twisted reality." There has been no "lynch court". Of course, if you say by presenting factual evidence is a "lynch court" then what on earth do you call it when a single person claims plagiarism and offers _nothing_ in evidence to support that claim?

Your argument is ridiculous.

With Vas it's exactly the same. You have stated in all clarity that we couldnt know unless Vas speaks. And this is a fact. So, if he doesnt speak, you cant know. Unless you follow your bias and make prejudicial guesses.

Then where's the fairness for the Robo* authors? How can we _know_ anything? Yet they are guilty, and should be excommunicated from the computer chess world??? Again, something is badly wrong with your mental functioning.

If I understand you right you are either unfamiliar with that principle as such or you think you should violate it for a higher purpose. My question were what is the purpose?

First, I don't believe you understand a single thing being discussed, which makes this entire point/counter-point totally worthless. It is as if I am saying this is black, and you are saying no it isn't, it is raining. No, it is black. No, we are 3 weeks from Christmas. Your arguments are completely random, mine have not changed since the discussion started.