ChessBase..

[Peter Skinner]

Agreed in everything you said.

I think this is a first George! Let's not make this a habit

Before we register we agree to this:

"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws."

If his posts are not hateful towards Chessbase, then i don't know the meaning of the word hateful.

I would have to agree. (Crap.. twice in one thread)

Most of the postings from Michael regarding Chessbase are slanderous, and certainly hateful. This is my problem with them. The only reason I haven't reported them is I don't have that kind of time to report his posts on what seems like a weekly basis.

We also agree to follow the charter that says among other:

2. Are not abusive in nature
4. Are not flagrant commercial exhortations
5. Are not of questionable legal status.

Are his posts abusive towards Chessbase or not?
Are his posts slanderous and always have a defamatory tone against Chessbase?
Is slandering legal?

While I believe them to be slanderous and defamatory, I don't think Chessbase has many legal remedies to stop an end user from displaying his distaste for their products. Now, if I am not mistaken, German law does however have the mechanisms in place to sue someone who shows problems in said programs that wouldn't normally occur in everyday usage, and is basically looking for anyway possible to slander the company. Being that Michael is attached to a competing product, as in another graphical interface for chess, I believe they would have a very easy time removing him from his possessions.

Case and point, posting that the program is broken because it doesn't properly handle a board setup with 9 Queens surrounding a King. Or that the analysis feature doesn't properly handle a position. Bugs are a part of computer programs.. deal with it.

Yes posting bugs about Chessbase products is very much welcome and perfectly acceptable!

But is the continuous spam about how bad Chessbase is and calling people to post bad behavior of Playchess people etc in order to make an article, normal, sane behavior? And inside the charter most importantly?

I would have to agree once again. If there is a legitimate bug in the program that would normally not allow me to use the program like an average user, then I would like to know about it from an informational stand point. Just as I would like to know if I have mistyped something on my website. Crap happens, and I do my best to fix it. In fact I welcome someone spotting the error for me.

There are ways of being constructive in dealing with bugs, and there is Michael's way...

Peter

[Steve B]

Agreed in everything you said.

I think this is a first George! Let's not make this a habit

Before we register we agree to this:

"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws."

If his posts are not hateful towards Chessbase, then i don't know the meaning of the word hateful.

I would have to agree. (Crap.. twice in one thread)

Most of the postings from Michael regarding Chessbase are slanderous, and certainly hateful. This is my problem with them. The only reason I haven't reported them is I don't have that kind of time to report his posts on what seems like a weekly basis.

We also agree to follow the charter that says among other:

2. Are not abusive in nature
4. Are not flagrant commercial exhortations
5. Are not of questionable legal status.

Are his posts abusive towards Chessbase or not?
Are his posts slanderous and always have a defamatory tone against Chessbase?
Is slandering legal?

While I believe them to be slanderous and defamatory, I don't think Chessbase has many legal remedies to stop an end user from displaying his distaste for their products. Now, if I am not mistaken, German law does however have the mechanisms in place to sue someone who shows problems in said programs that wouldn't normally occur in everyday usage, and is basically looking for anyway possible to slander the company. Being that Michael is attached to a competing product, as in another graphical interface for chess, I believe they would have a very easy time removing him from his possessions.

Case and point, posting that the program is broken because it doesn't properly handle a board setup with 9 Queens surrounding a King. Or that the analysis feature doesn't properly handle a position. Bugs are a part of computer programs.. deal with it.

Yes posting bugs about Chessbase products is very much welcome and perfectly acceptable!

But is the continuous spam about how bad Chessbase is and calling people to post bad behavior of Playchess people etc in order to make an article, normal, sane behavior? And inside the charter most importantly?

I would have to agree once again. If there is a legitimate bug in the program that would normally not allow me to use the program like an average user, then I would like to know about it from an informational stand point. Just as I would like to know if I have mistyped something on my website. Crap happens, and I do my best to fix it. In fact I welcome someone spotting the error for me.

There are ways of being constructive in dealing with bugs, and there is Michael's way...

Peter

totally disagree with the above two posts regarding charter interpretation
it seems that "Libel"is the new buzz word of the day when trying to get posts one does not like or agree with removed

however different moderators will interpret the charter differently
we just happen to have an election coming up in one day
all are invited to form a team and run
Steve

[Peter Skinner]

totally disagree with the above two posts regarding charter interpretation
it seems that "Libel"is the new buzz word of the day when trying to get posts one does not like or agree with removed

however different moderators will interpret the charter differently
we just happen to have an election coming up in one day
all are invited to form a team and run
Steve

I never said you were doing a bad job in handling his posts, because if no one reports them, then why would you moderate them?

On the other hand, if you really don't believe that his posts regarding Chessbase are defamatory, slanderous, and riddled with complete contempt for that company, there _is_ a problem.

Michael goes out of his way to point out a "bug" that no normal person on this planet would even test for. He repeatedly does this because he knows the bug is there and Chessbase fails to correct it. Repeatedly reporting an obscure bug just for the sake of defaming the company is childish.

I don't purchase Chessbase products for many reasons. Do I slander them every possible chance I get? No, I use my right as a consumer to not purchase their products; therefore having nothing to do with them.

Easy peezy regards,

Peter

[Steve B]

totally disagree with the above two posts regarding charter interpretation
it seems that "Libel"is the new buzz word of the day when trying to get posts one does not like or agree with removed

however different moderators will interpret the charter differently
we just happen to have an election coming up in one day
all are invited to form a team and run
Steve

I never said you were doing a bad job in handling his posts, because if no one reports them, then why would you moderate them?

On the other hand, if you really don't believe that his posts regarding Chessbase are defamatory, slanderous, and riddled with complete contempt for that company, there _is_ a problem.

Michael goes out of his way to point out a "bug" that no normal person on this planet would even test for. He repeatedly does this because he knows the bug is there and Chessbase fails to correct it. Repeatedly reporting an obscure bug just for the sake of defaming the company is childish.

I don't purchase Chessbase products for many reasons. Do I slander them every possible chance I get? No, I use my right as a consumer to not purchase their products; therefore having nothing to do with them.

Easy peezy regards,

Peter

the point of his thread is to gather complaints from Chessbase users
regarding supposed abuse of Chessbase sysops
a sort of petition i guess
not the sort of thing i personally would condone but not breaking the charter ..IMHO
Ironically i happen to be a satisfied Chess Base customer and have paid for a serial number each year for 3-4 years
i use the server to play causal unrated blitz games when i have spare time and to play online dedicated chess computer tournaments against other collectors
personally i like the server and have never had any problems

Steve

[George Tsavdaris]

the point of his thread is to gather complaints from Chessbase users
regarding supposed abuse of Chessbase sysops
a sort of petition i guess

You would guess right if you read only this single topic of him.
But you are not a beginner in CCC. So you should guess better.
You should see it as a whole and not individually or only looking at this single post.
We are speaking about continuous behavior.

Yes that post of him, if we isolate it, we will not find anything strange or violating the charter. He just want to gather complaints for Chessbase bugs.

But we are more clever than that.
We can look at other(and not very rare it is the truth) posts of him and we should see the same behavior.
Trying desperately (Peter said some nice examples and explained it very nicely)to degrade Chessbase.

All programs(and especially GUIs) have bugs. Chessbase allegedly(i say allegedly because for some reason their products work quite well in my computers) has more than the usual. OK show them. But don't show me bugs where 10 Queens check one king and the program crashes or whatever and say that Chessbase is crap because of this. That's childish.

So once again i repeat: Don't look individually the posts. Look them as a whole.

personally i like the server and have never had any problems

Me too and i wonder how some people report so many bad things about Playchess and its admins/sysops while i have never experienced any bad behavior by them towards myself.

Hmm(i recall now) once(in the early days of Rybka) in a GM-GM game broadcast, i remember that someone mentioned Fritz and Shredder are the leading programs and i mentioned it is not and that Rybka is the best and one of the admins there told me(politely) not to mention Rybka too much there, but i politely declined his advice and continued to say the truth.
But he didn't proceed doing me anything at all(ban me or something).

[Michael Diosi]

Do you know what I hate more than someone uselessly bashing a product? Someone with a competing product uselessly bashing said product.

If you don't like Chessbase/PlayChess, then have nothing to do with them. Posting crap every time you spot a bug or find something you don't like about them is childish.

Or are you still upset that x number of users download Arena yet only a small percentage submit bug reports, yet most come here to complain that this or that doesn't work in your product?

There have been bugs in Arena for years, yet do you see people posting utter crap on this forum each and every time they find one? No? How surprising...

Peter

Upset ? No. We did post many of the bugs on the Arena page.
Did you see this happen at ChessBase ? No ? How surprising...

As long as they don't send it to me or Martin we might find it or might not find it...



Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com

[SchachProfi]

Michael, gf's are overrated, addict your life to chess!

[Michael Diosi]

Michael, gf's are overrated, addict your life to chess!

Hi,

I don't want to become like those CB sysops who act just because "they can". I act with my heart. Maybe I should invite all those Arena fans to the...

Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com

[poisonedpawn]

well, just my 10 cents...while CB products will never be perfect, and what ever is, i have to say i have been satisfied with my purchases to date. i am sure there are countless bugs, as there are in mostly all software, arena included (i do hate it that the variation board completely vanishes when i use certain colour scheme combinations?). to date i have only had occassion to ask for sysop help once, and for only a very minor query. i got a very helpful reply almost right after opening my email inbox!
i might also add that i think arena is also a great product, and the latest offering is much improved. but i think this rival bitching is quite sad really. collaboration rather than competition (despite what capitalist dogma would say), i'm sure, would be of more benefit to both parties. in a way i could understand CB people slagging off a rival product as they have a financial interest in doing so, but i just don't understand it from the arena crew.

p.s, i play with the nick Djbl on playchess, a free extra month would be most welcomed

[SchachProfi]

You may overread it, but knowone here is talking too much about program bugs... but more about the behaviour of Harvey W. and other sysops which reminds to ...