Zugzwang
Moderator: Ras
-
Carlos Ylich
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:31 pm
- Location: Brazil
Re: Zugzwang
Komodo and Hiarcs solved quickly.
-
zullil
- Posts: 6442
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
- Location: PA USA
- Full name: Louis Zulli
Re: Zugzwang
Crafty finds another approach, Bc3. This leads to Mate-in-50 (or less).lech wrote:There are two possibilities to win a zugzwang position.
The first by a null move:
[d]8/8/8/8/1kB1q3/8/1PRb4/1K6 b - -
e.g. 1... Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ and 6... Qxf7 -+
Code: Select all
Crafty v23.4 (8 cpus)
White(1): setboard 8/8/8/8/1kB1q3/8/1PRb4/1K6 b - -
Black(1): hash 2048M
Warning-- xboard 'memory' option disabled
hash table memory = 2048M bytes (128M entries).
Black(1): st 180
search time set to 180.00.
Black(1): go
time limit 3:00 (+0.00) (3:00)
depth time score variation (1)
starting thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 <done>
12 0.36 +1 1. ... Qe1+?
12 1.09 -5.54 1. ... Qe1+ 2. Ka2 Qe3 3. Bd5 Qa7+
4. Kb1 Qh7 5. Be6 Be3 6. Bc4 Qh1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa8+ 8. Kb1 Qe4 9. b3 (s=7)
12 1.29 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Be6 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd2 6. Rc2 Qd4 7. Ka2
Qa7+ 8. Kb1 (s=6)
12-> 1.37 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Be6 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd2 6. Rc2 Qd4 7. Ka2
Qa7+ 8. Kb1 (s=2)
13 1.51 -5.68 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qd5 5. Rc8 Qe4+ 6. Rc2 Qh1+ 7.
Rc1 Qg2 8. Rc2 Qe4
13-> 1.56 -5.68 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qd5 5. Rc8 Qe4+ 6. Rc2 Qh1+ 7.
Rc1 Qg2 8. Rc2 Qe4 (s=2)
14 1.78 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qd5 5. Rc8 Qe4+ 6. Rc2 Qe3 7. Bc4
Qf3 8. Ka2 Qa8+ 9. Kb1 Qe4 10. Be6
14-> 1.87 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qd5 5. Rc8 Qe4+ 6. Rc2 Qe3 7. Bc4
Qf3 8. Ka2 Qa8+ 9. Kb1 Qe4 10. Be6
(s=2)
15 1.98 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qd5 5. Rc8 Qe4+ 6. Rc2 Qe3 7. Bc4
Qf3 8. Ka2 Qa8+ 9. Kb1 Qe4 10. Be6
15-> 2.16 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qd5 5. Rc8 Qe4+ 6. Rc2 Qe3 7. Bc4
Qf3 8. Ka2 Qa8+ 9. Kb1 Qe4 10. Be6
(s=2)
16 2.51 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qd5 5. Rc8 Qe4+ 6. Rc2 Qe3 7. Bc4
Qf3 8. Ka2 Qa8+ 9. Kb1 Qe4 10. Be6
16-> 2.75 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qd5 5. Rc8 Qe4+ 6. Rc2 Qe3 7. Bc4
Qf3 8. Ka2 Qa8+ 9. Kb1 Qe4 10. Be6
(s=2)
17 3.23 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qg6 5. Bc4 Qe4 6. Be2 Qg6 7. Bc4
Qe4 8. Be2 Qe3 9. Bc4 Qf3 10. Ka2 Qa8+
11. Kb1 Qe4 12. Be6
17-> 3.48 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qg6 5. Bc4 Qe4 6. Be2 Qg6 7. Bc4
Qe4 8. Be2 Qe3 9. Bc4 Qf3 10. Ka2 Qa8+
11. Kb1 Qe4 12. Be6 (s=2)
18 4.14 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qg6 5. Bc4 Qe4 6. Ba6 Qg6 7. Bc4
Qe4 8. Be2 Qg6 9. Bc4 Qe4 10. Be2 Qe3
11. Bc4 Qf3 12. Ka2 Qa8+ 13. Kb1 Qe4
14. Be6
18-> 4.80 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Bf3 Be5 4.
Be2 Qg6 5. Bc4 Qe4 6. Ba6 Qg6 7. Bc4
Qe4 8. Be2 Qg6 9. Bc4 Qe4 10. Be2 Qe3
11. Bc4 Qf3 12. Ka2 Qa8+ 13. Kb1 Qe4
14. Be6 (s=2)
19 6.20 -5.66 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be6 Qe4 10.
Bc4 Bd4 11. Be2 Qh1+ 12. Rc1 Qg2 13.
Rc2 Be5 14. Bd3 Qd5 15. Bf5
19-> 6.85 -5.66 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be6 Qe4 10.
Bc4 Bd4 11. Be2 Qh1+ 12. Rc1 Qg2 13.
Rc2 Be5 14. Bd3 Qd5 15. Bf5 (s=2)
20 7.70 -5.66 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be6 Qe4 10.
Bc4 Bd4 11. Be2 Qh1+ 12. Rc1 Qh7+ 13.
Ka2 Qa7+ 14. Kb1
20-> 8.84 -5.66 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be6 Qe4 10.
Bc4 Bd4 11. Be2 Qh1+ 12. Rc1 Qh7+ 13.
Ka2 Qa7+ 14. Kb1 (s=3)
21 9.62 -5.66 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be2 Qe4 10.
Ba6 Bh2 11. Bc4 Bf4 12. Ba6 Be5 13.
Bc4 Qg6 14. Bd5 Qd3 15. Be6 Bd4 16.
Bg4 Qf1+ 17. Rc1 (s=2)
21-> 18.36 -5.66 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be2 Qe4 10.
Ba6 Bh2 11. Bc4 Bf4 12. Ba6 Be5 13.
Bc4 Qg6 14. Bd5 Qd3 15. Be6 Bd4 16.
Bg4 Qf1+ 17. Rc1 (s=8)
22 18.91 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be2 Qe4 10.
Bc4 Qg6 11. Be2 Bd4 12. Bc4 Qe4 13.
Bf7 Qh1+ 14. Ka2 Qa8+ 15. Kb1 (s=7)
22-> 20.50 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be2 Qe4 10.
Bc4 Qg6 11. Be2 Bd4 12. Bc4 Qe4 13.
Bf7 Qh1+ 14. Ka2 Qa8+ 15. Kb1 (s=3)
23 21.31 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be2 Qe4 10.
Bc4 Qg6 11. Be2 Bd4 12. Bc4 Qe4 13.
Bf7 Qh1+ 14. Ka2 Qa8+ 15. Kb1 (s=2)
23-> 23.41 -5.67 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Be5 4.
Bc4 Qd1+ 5. Rc1 Qd4 6. Rc2 Qg1+ 7.
Ka2 Qa7+ 8. Kb1 Qa8 9. Be2 Qe4 10.
Bc4 Qg6 11. Be2 Bd4 12. Bc4 Qe4 13.
Bf7 Qh1+ 14. Ka2 Qa8+ 15. Kb1 (s=3)
24 26.02 -1 1. ... Bc3!
24 26.70 -3 1. ... Bc3!
24 35.07 -M 1. ... Bc3!
24 36.28 -9.08 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Bd2 4.
Bc4 Qe4 5. Bf7 Qf3 6. Rc4+ Kb5 7. Be6
Qe2 8. Bg8 Qg2 9. Be6 Qg6+ 10. Ka1
Qxe6 11. Rc7 Bf4 12. Rg7 Be5 13. Rb7+
Ka5 14. Rh7 Kb4 (s=2)
24-> 38.60 -9.08 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Bd2 4.
Bc4 Qe4 5. Bf7 Qf3 6. Rc4+ Kb5 7. Be6
Qe2 8. Bg8 Qg2 9. Be6 Qg6+ 10. Ka1
Qxe6 11. Rc7 Bf4 12. Rg7 Be5 13. Rb7+
Ka5 14. Rh7 Kb4 (s=2)
25 41.92 -1 1. ... Bc3!
25 42.31 -9.91 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Bd2 4.
Bc4 Qe4 5. Ba6 Qh1+ 6. Ka2 Qa8 7. Rc4+
Ka5 8. Kb3 Kxa6 9. Ra4+ Ba5 10. Ra3
Qd5+ 11. Kc2 Qf5+ 12. Kb3 Qe6+ 13.
Kc2 Kb5 14. Kb1 Bb4 15. Ra1 Qe4+ 16.
Ka2 Qd5+ 17. b3 Qd2+ 18. Kb1
25-> 44.29 -9.91 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Bd2 4.
Bc4 Qe4 5. Ba6 Qh1+ 6. Ka2 Qa8 7. Rc4+
Ka5 8. Kb3 Kxa6 9. Ra4+ Ba5 10. Ra3
Qd5+ 11. Kc2 Qf5+ 12. Kb3 Qe6+ 13.
Kc2 Kb5 14. Kb1 Bb4 15. Ra1 Qe4+ 16.
Ka2 Qd5+ 17. b3 Qd2+ 18. Kb1 (s=3)
26 46.53 -1 1. ... Bc3!
26-> 54.90 -9.51 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Bd2 4.
Bc4 Qe4 5. Ba6 Qh1+ 6. Ka2 Qa8 7. Rc4+
Ka5 8. Kb3 Kxa6 9. Ra4+ Ba5 10. Ra3
Qd5+ 11. Kc2 Qf5+ 12. Kb3 Qe6+ 13.
Kc2 Kb5 14. Kb1 Bb4 15. Ra1 Qe4+ 16.
Ka2 Qd5+ 17. b3 Qd2+ 18. Kb1 (s=3)
27 56.77 -1 1. ... Bc3!
27 1:00 -3 1. ... Bc3!
27 1:01 -M 1. ... Bc3!
27 1:01 -13.64 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Bd2 4.
Bc4 Qe4 5. Ba6 Qh1+ 6. Ka2 Qa8 7. Rc4+
Ka5 8. Kb3 Kxa6 9. Ra4+ Ba5 10. Ra3
Qd5+ 11. Kc2 Qe4+ 12. Kb3 Qb1 13. Ra4
Qd1+ 14. Ka3 Kb5 15. Rxa5+ Kxa5 16.
b4+ Kb5 17. Ka2 Kxb4 18. Kb2 Qd2+ 19.
Kb1 (s=2)
27-> 1:05 -13.64 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Bd2 4.
Bc4 Qe4 5. Ba6 Qh1+ 6. Ka2 Qa8 7. Rc4+
Ka5 8. Kb3 Kxa6 9. Ra4+ Ba5 10. Ra3
Qd5+ 11. Kc2 Qe4+ 12. Kb3 Qb1 13. Ra4
Qd1+ 14. Ka3 Kb5 15. Rxa5+ Kxa5 16.
b4+ Kb5 17. Ka2 Kxb4 18. Kb2 Qd2+ 19.
Kb1 (s=3)
28 1:08 -13.64 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Bd2 4.
Bc4 Qe4 5. Ba6 Qh1+ 6. Ka2 Qa8 7. Rc4+
Ka5 8. Kb3 Kxa6 9. Ra4+ Ba5 10. Ra3
Qd5+ 11. Kc2 Qe4+ 12. Kb3 Qb1 13. Ra4
Qd1+ 14. Ka3 Kb5 15. Rxa5+ Kxa5 16.
b4+ Kb5 17. Ka2 Kxb4 18. Kb2 Qd2+ 19.
Kb1 (s=2)
28-> 1:16 -13.64 1. ... Bc3 2. Bd5 Qd3 3. Ba2 Bd2 4.
Bc4 Qe4 5. Ba6 Qh1+ 6. Ka2 Qa8 7. Rc4+
Ka5 8. Kb3 Kxa6 9. Ra4+ Ba5 10. Ra3
Qd5+ 11. Kc2 Qe4+ 12. Kb3 Qb1 13. Ra4
Qd1+ 14. Ka3 Kb5 15. Rxa5+ Kxa5 16.
b4+ Kb5 17. Ka2 Kxb4 18. Kb2 Qd2+ 19.
Kb1 (s=3)
29 1:18 -1 1. ... Bc3!
29 1:19 -3 1. ... Bc3!
29 1:19 -M 1. ... Bc3!
29 1:44 -Mat50 1. ... Bc3 2. Ba2 Qh1+ 3. Rc1 Qh7+
4. Rc2 Bd2 5. Be6 Qd3 6. Bc4 Qe4 7.
Bf7 Qf3 8. Rc4+ Kb5 9. Be6 Qe2 10.
Bg8 Qg2 11. Be6 Qg6+ 12. Rc2 Qxe6 13.
Rxd2 (s=2)
time=3:00 mat=-4 n=3115022804 fh=91% nps=17.3M
extensions=208.8M qchecks=371.4M reduced=469.7M pruned=1253.6M
predicted=0 evals=57.2M 50move=0 EGTBprobes=4.9M hits=4.9M
SMP-> splits=152473 aborts=11554 data=74/512 elap=3:00
terminating SMP processes.
mate in 50 moves.
-
lech
- Posts: 1175
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:02 pm
Re: Zugzwang
Louis, note that it is the same position as after 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4.zullil wrote:Crafty finds another approach, Bc3. This leads to Mate-in-50 (or less).
Code: Select all
Crafty v23.4 (8 cpus) 29 1:44 -Mat50 1. ... Bc3 2. Ba2 Qh1+ 3. Rc1 Qh7+ 4. Rc2 Bd2 5. Be6 Qd3 6. Bc4 Qe4 ... mate in 50 moves.
There are a few ways to do "the null-move" in this position, thus I wrote "e.g".
Hence Crafty is not a clone of Ippolit.
Only wise engines are able to find this solution.
Stockfish has a very good method to handle zugzwangs
, but it probably costs many poiints of ELO.-
zullil
- Posts: 6442
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
- Location: PA USA
- Full name: Louis Zulli
Re: Zugzwang
lech wrote:Louis, note that it is the same position as after 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4.zullil wrote:Crafty finds another approach, Bc3. This leads to Mate-in-50 (or less).
Code: Select all
Crafty v23.4 (8 cpus) 29 1:44 -Mat50 1. ... Bc3 2. Ba2 Qh1+ 3. Rc1 Qh7+ 4. Rc2 Bd2 5. Be6 Qd3 6. Bc4 Qe4 ... mate in 50 moves.
I should have checked before I posted. You're right.
I ran Crafty again. This time it settles on the line you suggested, leading to mate-in-46:
Code: Select all
28 2:07 -Mat46 1. ... Qh1+ 2. Ka2 Qa8+ 3. Kb1 Qe4
4. Bf7 Qf3 5. Rxd2 Qf1+ 6. Kc2 Qxf7
<EGTB>
-
Houdini
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am
Re: Zugzwang
Here's Houdini's (development version) solution.lech wrote:The first by a null move:
[d]8/8/8/8/1kB1q3/8/1PRb4/1K6 b - -
e.g. 1... Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ and 6... Qxf7 -+
3 threads, 2048 MB of hash and 5-man Gaviota TB.
Apparently the nice Queen triangle produces a mate in 53.
Code: Select all
4/12 0:00 -4.06 1...Bf4 2.Be2 Be5 3.Bf1 (1.111)
20/40 0:01 -4.01 1...Bf4 2.Be2 Be5 3.Bc4 Bg7 4.Be2 Ka5 5.Bc4 Kb6 6.Be2 Bf6 7.Bc4 Bd4 8.Be2 Qh1+ 9.Ka2 Qa8+ 10.Kb1 Qe4 11.Bc4 Be5 12.Be2 Bf6 13.Bc4 (6.229.008) 6198 TB:207
23/41 0:03 -4.01 1...Bf4 2.Be2 Be5 3.Bc4 Bg7 4.Be2 Ka5 5.Bc4 Kb6 6.Be2 Bf6 7.Bc4 Bd4 8.Be2 Qh1+ 9.Ka2 Qa8+ 10.Kb1 Qe4 11.Bc4 Qf5 12.Be2 Qe4 13.Bc4 (20.136.901) 6595 TB:1.028
23/60 0:03 -4.19++ 1...Qh1+ (23.996.496) 6538 TB:1.118
23/60 0:03 -4.56++ 1...Qh1+ (24.451.969) 6536 TB:1.130
23/60 0:03 -5.44++ 1...Qh1+ (25.308.205) 6531 TB:1.145
23/60 0:05 -7.94++ 1...Qh1+ (33.564.403) 6464 TB:1.213
23/61 0:09 -8.53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf4 Bc5 (61.556.071) 6663 TB:1.328
24/69 0:13 -8.88++ 1...Qh1+ (87.893.443) 6658 TB:2.020
24/69 0:16 -9.58++ 1...Qh1+ (107.600.248) 6663 TB:2.450
24/69 0:21 -10.96 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qg1+ 14.Ka2 Qxg8+ (149.390.226) 6829 TB:3.248
25/69 0:23 -10.96 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf3 Bc5 (160.446.745) 6838 TB:4.083
26/69 0:26 -10.96 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf3 Bc5 (185.097.382) 6868 TB:5.726
27/69 0:42 -10.51-- 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 (300.721.575) 7097 TB:9.815
27/69 0:45 -10.96 1...Qh7 2.Be2 Qg6 3.Bc4 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf3 Bc5 (325.672.753) 7143 TB:12.475
28/69 0:46 -10.96 1...Qh7 2.Be2 Qg6 3.Bc4 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf3 Bc5 (329.107.945) 7135 TB:13.126
28/69 0:46 -11.41++ 1...Qh1+ (332.612.150) 7124 TB:13.512
28/69 0:59 -12.31++ 1...Qh1+ (432.285.597) 7268 TB:16.781
28/69 1:27 -14.91++ 1...Qh1+ (655.329.625) 7529 TB:21.602
28/74 2:04 -15.60 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Rc7 Qf5+ 7.Ka2 Kb6 8.Re7 Bb4 9.Re6+ Kc7 10.Bg8 Qd5+ 11.Kb1 Qh1+ 12.Ka2 Qa8+ 13.Kb1 Qxg8 14.Re5 Qg6+ (971.784.451) 7790 TB:31.118
29/74 2:20 -16.24++ 1...Qh1+ (1.095.694.935) 7793 TB:38.259
29/74 2:27 -17.54++ 1...Qh1+ (1.151.003.814) 7809 TB:41.604
29/79 2:33 -21.31++ 1...Qh1+ (1.203.093.813) 7821 TB:45.260
29/79 5:44 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (2.838.967.731) 8235 TB:206.454
30/79 5:48 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (2.867.423.733) 8237 TB:211.489
31/79 5:54 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (2.921.388.504) 8236 TB:221.219
32/79 6:06 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (3.019.753.333) 8229 TB:242.033
33/79 6:23 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 7.Rd3 (3.151.931.298) 8223 TB:271.425
34/79 6:56 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (3.429.118.624) 8227 TB:321.489-
zullil
- Posts: 6442
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
- Location: PA USA
- Full name: Louis Zulli
Re: Zugzwang
Should be Mate-in-40 after 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7, so -M53 is incorrect. Looks like more development in neededHoudini wrote:Here's Houdini's (development version) solution.lech wrote:The first by a null move:
[d]8/8/8/8/1kB1q3/8/1PRb4/1K6 b - -
e.g. 1... Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ and 6... Qxf7 -+
3 threads, 2048 MB of hash and 5-man Gaviota TB.
Apparently the nice Queen triangle produces a mate in 53.
Code: Select all
4/12 0:00 -4.06 1...Bf4 2.Be2 Be5 3.Bf1 (1.111) 20/40 0:01 -4.01 1...Bf4 2.Be2 Be5 3.Bc4 Bg7 4.Be2 Ka5 5.Bc4 Kb6 6.Be2 Bf6 7.Bc4 Bd4 8.Be2 Qh1+ 9.Ka2 Qa8+ 10.Kb1 Qe4 11.Bc4 Be5 12.Be2 Bf6 13.Bc4 (6.229.008) 6198 TB:207 23/41 0:03 -4.01 1...Bf4 2.Be2 Be5 3.Bc4 Bg7 4.Be2 Ka5 5.Bc4 Kb6 6.Be2 Bf6 7.Bc4 Bd4 8.Be2 Qh1+ 9.Ka2 Qa8+ 10.Kb1 Qe4 11.Bc4 Qf5 12.Be2 Qe4 13.Bc4 (20.136.901) 6595 TB:1.028 23/60 0:03 -4.19++ 1...Qh1+ (23.996.496) 6538 TB:1.118 23/60 0:03 -4.56++ 1...Qh1+ (24.451.969) 6536 TB:1.130 23/60 0:03 -5.44++ 1...Qh1+ (25.308.205) 6531 TB:1.145 23/60 0:05 -7.94++ 1...Qh1+ (33.564.403) 6464 TB:1.213 23/61 0:09 -8.53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf4 Bc5 (61.556.071) 6663 TB:1.328 24/69 0:13 -8.88++ 1...Qh1+ (87.893.443) 6658 TB:2.020 24/69 0:16 -9.58++ 1...Qh1+ (107.600.248) 6663 TB:2.450 24/69 0:21 -10.96 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qg1+ 14.Ka2 Qxg8+ (149.390.226) 6829 TB:3.248 25/69 0:23 -10.96 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf3 Bc5 (160.446.745) 6838 TB:4.083 26/69 0:26 -10.96 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf3 Bc5 (185.097.382) 6868 TB:5.726 27/69 0:42 -10.51-- 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 (300.721.575) 7097 TB:9.815 27/69 0:45 -10.96 1...Qh7 2.Be2 Qg6 3.Bc4 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf3 Bc5 (325.672.753) 7143 TB:12.475 28/69 0:46 -10.96 1...Qh7 2.Be2 Qg6 3.Bc4 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Bg8 Qg3 7.Bf7 Qf2 8.Rc7 Qf5+ 9.Ka1 Kb6 10.Re7 Bb4 11.Re6+ Kb7 12.Bg8 Qg4 13.Rf6 Qxg8 14.Rf3 Bc5 (329.107.945) 7135 TB:13.126 28/69 0:46 -11.41++ 1...Qh1+ (332.612.150) 7124 TB:13.512 28/69 0:59 -12.31++ 1...Qh1+ (432.285.597) 7268 TB:16.781 28/69 1:27 -14.91++ 1...Qh1+ (655.329.625) 7529 TB:21.602 28/74 2:04 -15.60 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rc4+ Kb5 6.Rc7 Qf5+ 7.Ka2 Kb6 8.Re7 Bb4 9.Re6+ Kc7 10.Bg8 Qd5+ 11.Kb1 Qh1+ 12.Ka2 Qa8+ 13.Kb1 Qxg8 14.Re5 Qg6+ (971.784.451) 7790 TB:31.118 29/74 2:20 -16.24++ 1...Qh1+ (1.095.694.935) 7793 TB:38.259 29/74 2:27 -17.54++ 1...Qh1+ (1.151.003.814) 7809 TB:41.604 29/79 2:33 -21.31++ 1...Qh1+ (1.203.093.813) 7821 TB:45.260 29/79 5:44 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (2.838.967.731) 8235 TB:206.454 30/79 5:48 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (2.867.423.733) 8237 TB:211.489 31/79 5:54 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (2.921.388.504) 8236 TB:221.219 32/79 6:06 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (3.019.753.333) 8229 TB:242.033 33/79 6:23 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 7.Rd3 (3.151.931.298) 8223 TB:271.425 34/79 6:56 -M53 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7 (3.429.118.624) 8227 TB:321.489
-
Houdini
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am
Re: Zugzwang
Correct, some move repetition must have crept in the hash table entries.zullil wrote:Should be Mate-in-40 after 1...Qh1+ 2.Ka2 Qa8+ 3.Kb1 Qe4 4.Bf7 Qf3 5.Rxd2 Qf1+ 6.Kc2 Qxf7, so -M53 is incorrect.
Robert
-
lech
- Posts: 1175
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:02 pm
Re: Zugzwang
I very like 4.Bf7 Qf3!! and 5 Rxd2 Qf1+!! (very deep)Houdini wrote:Here's Houdini's (development version) solution.
3 threads, 2048 MB of hash and 5-man Gaviota TB.
Apparently the nice Queen triangle produces a mate in 53.
and 5.Kc2 Qxf7 6.Rd4+ Kb5!! to avoid 7.Ra4 with draw
I found this positon to prove that one wonderful study (very liked by me) is incorrect.
My conclusion was that such endgames are won always, since it is impossible to avoid this position.
It is probably a valuable position for the theory of endgames.
-
Carlos Ylich
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:31 pm
- Location: Brazil
Re: Zugzwang
It is not necessary. Now that Robolito SMP 1.0 was released, it can copy
directly. As he has done before
directly. As he has done before
-
Houdini
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am
Re: Zugzwang
Yes, it's a fascinating position with very subtle moves.lech wrote:I very like 4.Bf7 Qf3!! and 5 Rxd2 Qf1+!! (very deep)
and 5.Kc2 Qxf7 6.Rd4+ Kb5!! to avoid 7.Ra4 with draw
I found this positon to prove that one wonderful study (very liked by me) is incorrect.
My conclusion was that such endgames are won always, since it is impossible to avoid this position.
It is probably a valuable position for the theory of endgames.
Robert