Apple is dropping X11 in upcoming OS X 10.8

[lucasart]

Even worse than dropping features, Apple is now taking the Mac application development environment into the same "walled garden" as is already used for iPhone/iPad development. This means that if you want to program on the Mac, you must first cough up US$99 per year, agree to a bunch of terms, and give Apple final approval rights for any code you make. This is part of the new Gate Keeper OS feature which now warns about (and will later forbid) any application which wasn't cryptographically signed by Apple.

Apple will also have the power to remotely deactivate any program, too. And the history of the iPhone/iPad development scene is that Apple will pull an application merely because some third party has a complaint or two. Apple can also deactivate any program that brings in any kind of post-purchase revenue but doesn't give up 30% of the gross to Apple.

To hell with that crap!

Again, let's all be thankful for Linux.

+1

solution: boycott all Apple products and use a free GNU/Linux system

Some may agree if he
- can find and install all drivers
- does not like Mac-linux
- does not addict to Mac

Easy say than done

Why would you buy an Apple machine in the first place anyway... They sell you PC hardware now for double the price... And you also pay to be abused, with MacOSX ITunes, DRM, iBad etc.

To put it concisely, Apple's aim is two fold:
1/ keep users as ignorant and subjugated as possible
2/ use this ignorance/dependancy to extort as much money as they can out of the user, and even make them buy software/hardware that will restrict their freedom further, thereby further increasing the extent of 1/
3/ ... and the loop is looped!

Apple is the devil's incarnation in the field of computers. If only more people could understand... But sadly most end users aren't aware of any of these issues and wouldn't have a clue what they mean. They just use a computer as one would use a toaster: press the button, oh great it works, thank you Apple, I want more

[JuLieN]

Even worse than dropping features, Apple is now taking the Mac application development environment into the same "walled garden" as is already used for iPhone/iPad development. This means that if you want to program on the Mac, you must first cough up US$99 per year, agree to a bunch of terms, and give Apple final approval rights for any code you make. This is part of the new Gate Keeper OS feature which now warns about (and will later forbid) any application which wasn't cryptographically signed by Apple.

Apple will also have the power to remotely deactivate any program, too. And the history of the iPhone/iPad development scene is that Apple will pull an application merely because some third party has a complaint or two. Apple can also deactivate any program that brings in any kind of post-purchase revenue but doesn't give up 30% of the gross to Apple.

To hell with that crap!

Again, let's all be thankful for Linux.

+1

solution: boycott all Apple products and use a free GNU/Linux system

Some may agree if he
- can find and install all drivers
- does not like Mac-linux
- does not addict to Mac

Easy say than done

Why would you buy an Apple machine in the first place anyway... They sell you PC hardware now for double the price... And you also pay to be abused, with MacOSX ITunes, DRM, iBad etc.

To put it concisely, Apple's aim is two fold:
1/ keep users as ignorant and subjugated as possible
2/ use this ignorance/dependancy to extort as much money as they can out of the user, and even make them buy software/hardware that will restrict their freedom further, thereby further increasing the extent of 1/
3/ ... and the loop is looped!

Apple is the devil's incarnation in the field of computers. If only more people could understand... But sadly most end users aren't aware of any of these issues and wouldn't have a clue what they mean. They just use a computer as one would use a toaster: press the button, oh great it works, thank you Apple, I want more

Those were a lot of nice and gentle things you're saying to me and all the other happy Mac users of this forum, Lucas.

The only bad thing with being a Mac user is all the little ayatollahs everywhere who try to convince you (even if you asked them nothing) that their choice is better than yours... This is like a worldwide hysteria against Apple.

[lucasart]

Even worse than dropping features, Apple is now taking the Mac application development environment into the same "walled garden" as is already used for iPhone/iPad development. This means that if you want to program on the Mac, you must first cough up US$99 per year, agree to a bunch of terms, and give Apple final approval rights for any code you make. This is part of the new Gate Keeper OS feature which now warns about (and will later forbid) any application which wasn't cryptographically signed by Apple.

Apple will also have the power to remotely deactivate any program, too. And the history of the iPhone/iPad development scene is that Apple will pull an application merely because some third party has a complaint or two. Apple can also deactivate any program that brings in any kind of post-purchase revenue but doesn't give up 30% of the gross to Apple.

To hell with that crap!

Again, let's all be thankful for Linux.

+1

solution: boycott all Apple products and use a free GNU/Linux system

Some may agree if he
- can find and install all drivers
- does not like Mac-linux
- does not addict to Mac

Easy say than done

Why would you buy an Apple machine in the first place anyway... They sell you PC hardware now for double the price... And you also pay to be abused, with MacOSX ITunes, DRM, iBad etc.

To put it concisely, Apple's aim is two fold:
1/ keep users as ignorant and subjugated as possible
2/ use this ignorance/dependancy to extort as much money as they can out of the user, and even make them buy software/hardware that will restrict their freedom further, thereby further increasing the extent of 1/
3/ ... and the loop is looped!

Apple is the devil's incarnation in the field of computers. If only more people could understand... But sadly most end users aren't aware of any of these issues and wouldn't have a clue what they mean. They just use a computer as one would use a toaster: press the button, oh great it works, thank you Apple, I want more

Those were a lot of nice and gentle things you're saying to me and all the other happy Mac users of this forum, Lucas.

The only bad thing with being a Mac user is all the little ayatollahs everywhere who try to convince you (even if you asked them nothing) that their choice is better than yours... This is like a worldwide hysteria against Apple.

My hatred goes to Apple, not to its users (or victims).

I'm not trying to convince anyone that Apple's software or hardware is bad. In fact their software/hardware has always been very good, from a functional point of view (although pricy).

The problem is ethical, it's about respecting users' freedom... Apple isn't the only corporation that conspires against our freedom, but they are by far the worst I've ever seen

When I talk about "most end users", I'm obviously not talking about programmers like you or anyone on this forum. Hence the "toaster methaphore"

[JuLieN]

I'm not trying to convince anyone that Apple's software or hardware is bad. In fact their software/hardware has always been very good, from a functional point of view (although pricy).

The problem is ethical, it's about respecting users' freedom... Apple isn't the only corporation that conspires against our freedom, but they are by far the worst I've ever seen

I don't say you spoke hatred. But you're looking very down at the Mac users from this forum. As if only you were equipped with a brain and able to think. Well, you're not.

There are lots of reasons why people would chose a Mac over a PC, would it be running Windows or Linux. Mines include:

It is beautiful. Elegant. Full of tricks and smart, handy ideas. Both the OS and the Hardware. Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but for me it does. And so it does for many other Mac users. We all are different, Lucas.

As a result, even the applications are beautiful: the programmers feel compelled to add the "Mac value" to their programs: make them more beautiful than anything else on other platforms. That's why, btw, there's an "Apple DesignAward" each year. For instance, in 2011, the winners for MacOSX were Pixelmator and Capo:





From the previous years, I also like Things:


You can take a look at all the winners on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Design_Awards

Also, my Mac works flawlessly: last time I had to reboot it was for a major OS update: my uptime was more than two months long. I never achieved that when I was still under Windows.

I also dropped a lots of bad and unproductive habits I had on Windows, like the constant search for new drivers, or the constant need to buy new hardware to catch up: my iMac will soon be three years old and I feel no need at all to change it: all the software I'm using works perfectly well.

Now, about X11: it was in OSX for legacy reasons, and only needed in the very beginning when the lack of native software made it crucial to be able to port softwares from the Unix world. But now X11 apps look prehistoric compared with native cocoa applications. The graphic server in OSX is a postscript engine, far more capable than X11. When you run X11 apps they look awful compared with the Quartz ones. I won't regret X11. Besides, X11 being POSIX, it is a piece of cake to compile it for OSX if you really need it.

So, in conclusion: live and let live, Lucas. You have your ideas, your priorities and, mind you, everyone has different ones, not less legitimate than yours.

[phhnguyen]

Even worse than dropping features, Apple is now taking the Mac application development environment into the same "walled garden" as is already used for iPhone/iPad development. This means that if you want to program on the Mac, you must first cough up US$99 per year, agree to a bunch of terms, and give Apple final approval rights for any code you make. This is part of the new Gate Keeper OS feature which now warns about (and will later forbid) any application which wasn't cryptographically signed by Apple.

Apple will also have the power to remotely deactivate any program, too. And the history of the iPhone/iPad development scene is that Apple will pull an application merely because some third party has a complaint or two. Apple can also deactivate any program that brings in any kind of post-purchase revenue but doesn't give up 30% of the gross to Apple.

To hell with that crap!

Again, let's all be thankful for Linux.

+1

solution: boycott all Apple products and use a free GNU/Linux system

Some may agree if he
- can find and install all drivers
- does not like Mac-linux
- does not addict to Mac

Easy say than done

Why would you buy an Apple machine in the first place anyway... They sell you PC hardware now for double the price... And you also pay to be abused, with MacOSX ITunes, DRM, iBad etc.

To put it concisely, Apple's aim is two fold:
1/ keep users as ignorant and subjugated as possible
2/ use this ignorance/dependancy to extort as much money as they can out of the user, and even make them buy software/hardware that will restrict their freedom further, thereby further increasing the extent of 1/
3/ ... and the loop is looped!

Apple is the devil's incarnation in the field of computers. If only more people could understand... But sadly most end users aren't aware of any of these issues and wouldn't have a clue what they mean. They just use a computer as one would use a toaster: press the button, oh great it works, thank you Apple, I want more

Those were a lot of nice and gentle things you're saying to me and all the other happy Mac users of this forum, Lucas.

The only bad thing with being a Mac user is all the little ayatollahs everywhere who try to convince you (even if you asked them nothing) that their choice is better than yours... This is like a worldwide hysteria against Apple.

My hatred goes to Apple, not to its users (or victims).

I'm not trying to convince anyone that Apple's software or hardware is bad. In fact their software/hardware has always been very good, from a functional point of view (although pricy).

The problem is ethical, it's about respecting users' freedom... Apple isn't the only corporation that conspires against our freedom, but they are by far the worst I've ever seen

When I talk about "most end users", I'm obviously not talking about programmers like you or anyone on this forum. Hence the "toaster methaphore"

As I have understood you are still blaming about Mac's expensiveness: expensive to buy a new one, expensive to keep or maintain an old system... Am I correct? It is not really about freedom!

[ZirconiumX]

Technically, I lean toward the apple side rather than the microsoft side or the GNU/linux side.

To me, the answer is simple.

Use Darwin. I take the points given but would like to say that:

1. W.R.T the linux side of "Apple is too expensive" Darwin is free.
2. W.R.T the microsoft side of "Apple has nothing over Windows, cos Win has those features too" Microsoft _stole_ them.
3. W.R.T the apple side of "What is the point of having Darwin over a user-friendly OS based on it?" AFAIK Darwin can still open Mac OS X applications; using the open command.

My only bug bear is that AFAIK Darwin has no C Compiler by default.

Matthew:out

[Evert]

Why would you buy an Apple machine in the first place anyway...

In my case, I bought a Mac because I wanted a laptop back when Linux was still a bit dicey on a laptop, and there was no way in hell I would consider Windows instead (not least because it doesn't/didn't actually run the software I wanted, at least not conveniently).
There's another reason I'd be sorely tempted to get a Mac laptop though: the trackpad. I never understood why everyone complained about trackpads until I tried using one on some random laptop PC. It was crap.

They sell you PC hardware now for double the price...

That claim goes around a lot and I've taken the trouble a few times to see if I could verify it. As far as I've ever been able to tell, it's false, at least when it comes to their laptop line.
Apple does not make cheap hardware, that's true. But if you get a PC laptop from a different vendor and with similar hardware specs then the price turns out the same or very close. That laptop I got originally was also the cheapest option out of the possible candidates.

And you also pay to be abused, with MacOSX ITunes, DRM, iBad etc.

OS X is fine, if a bit quirky. I prefer Linux, but I'm happy to pay for OS X as well.
I agree iTunes is crap though, much too slow and heavy. Never use it if I can avoid it. DRM is bad anywhere, not just on a Mac.

But sadly most end users aren't aware of any of these issues and wouldn't have a clue what they mean. They just use a computer as one would use a toaster: press the button, oh great it works, thank you Apple, I want more

Most end users don't know how to program the channels on their TV set. So they want exactly that: a system that does what they want with a single button press and doesn't confuse them with too many (to them) irrelevant details.

Don't get me wrong: I use a Mac because it suits my purpose and lets me do what I want (and need) to do. The moment I can no longer do that is the moment I switch my laptop for a Linux machine (I already have a Linux desktop).

[stevenaaus]

It is beautiful. Elegant. Full of tricks and smart, handy ideas. Both the OS and the Hardware. Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but for me it does. And so it does for many other Mac users. We all are different, Lucas.

OS X is just a superior user interface to anything else going around. Gorgeous, simple and functional.
I appreciate the usability of Windows, and power of Linux, but OSX is easily the best consumer operating system.
But as a developer/power user - i still use and prefer Linux

As a result, even the applications are beautiful: the programmers feel compelled to add the "Mac value" to their programs: make them more beautiful than anything else on other platforms.

The funny thing is, i've striven for interface usability with Scid vs. PC, and when i saw it on OSX - it had the magic straight away. (That is, apart from the couple of dozen quirks/bugs it also had with OS X).

Also, my Mac works flawlessly: last time I had to reboot it was for a major OS update: my uptime was more than two months long. I never achieved that when I was still under Windows.

I *have* found serious bugs in the operating system, so they definitely exist.
But MACs are generally more reliable than Windows due to the less crap than can be/is installed on windows boxes, imho.

I also dropped a lots of bad and unproductive habits I had on Windows, like the constant search for new drivers

Yes. Hardware control is also a major plus for MACs.

The graphic server in OSX is a postscript engine, far more capable than X11. When you run X11 apps they look awful compared with the Quartz ones. I won't regret X11. Besides, X11 being POSIX, it is a piece of cake to compile it for OSX if you really need it.

And Quartz is an amazing achievement.

The signed apps approach of Mountain Lion is a concern, but a reasonable feature to add.
Imho they will never ban unsigned apps outright. The uproar will be too much, as despite being influenced by iOS, it will still always be general purpose operating system.

[Michel]

The signed apps approach of Mountain Lion is a concern, but a reasonable feature to add.
Imho they will never ban unsigned apps outright. The uproar will be too much,

You think so? I'd say most mac users will defend it as _something good_. That is if they actually notice.

[trojanfoe]

Apple is dropping support for X11 in their upcoming OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion release. Replacing X11 will be the open source project XQuartz. (Quartz is the name of the underlying graphics engine in OS X.)

I'm sure that this will affect Xboard, and likely not in a good way.

My main machine, now in its sixth year, cannot be upgraded tn OS X 10.8 as the firmware only supports a 32 bit kernel and 10.8 requires booting into 64 bit mode. Several other models will also be left behind even though they are only three years old and have dual core (or better) 64 bit Intel CPUs.

This is all part of Apple's philosophy: "We're your friend as long as you buy a new machine every two years". Bastards.

Steven, I think this is just an unfortunate timing issue where Apple (and the rest of the industry) are transitioning from 32- to 64-bit architectures and the machines you have are pre-transition. This is not going to happen again until the advent of 128-bit CPUs; it's not Apple policy I'm sure.

-A