Switching from Ubuntu

[Don]

Ubuntu has been copying the look/feel from Apple's Mac OS/X for some time, and that's problematic at best. If Ubuntu could do it well, then Apple would sue them out of existence. But Ubuntu can't do it well because they don't have enough sufficiently talented coders to make the copied GUI eye candy work fast enough and without glitches.

Also, the main reason for Apple's look/feel feature creep is to force full-system replacement upgrades. Several recent dual core and quad core 64 bit Intel Macintosh models have been obsoleted by the latest version of Mac OS/X.

Anyway, http://www.debian.org/ is the place to go. Unless you have funding; then you might try http://www.redhat.com/ which is what I used for years back when they were free.

Redhat is still free. It is called "Fedora" and it is what I use, although I did not migrate to the most recent version because I do not like what the Gnome guys have done. Older gnome worked perfectly well. Then they had to change EVERYTHING, from how you start things automatically, to preference settings (there is no "focus follows mouse", for example, you have to click on a window to switch focus, which I do not like). But it has worked flawlessly on every machine I have tried over the past 5 years or so. wireless. bluetooth. Graphics card options. You name it. Intel CC compiler complains on install but works perfectly.

But for a 'normal' user, especially those switching from Windows, Fedora is a pain in the ass when it comes to proprietary codecs, graphic-card driver, etc. Ubuntu or Linux Mint are much more user-friendly in this regard.

Currently I run Linux Mint 13 with the xfce-desktop. Though I really loved the Unity-Desktop of Ubuntu at first, I must admit it has its disadvantages.

I have to say that Unix is superb, but these developments in my opinion work against the spirit of Unix. I don't believe Linux should be trying so hard to be all things to all people, it's really for power users and trying to cater to grandma and uncle Joe is a very uneasy fit for it.

[bob]

Ubuntu has been copying the look/feel from Apple's Mac OS/X for some time, and that's problematic at best. If Ubuntu could do it well, then Apple would sue them out of existence. But Ubuntu can't do it well because they don't have enough sufficiently talented coders to make the copied GUI eye candy work fast enough and without glitches.

Also, the main reason for Apple's look/feel feature creep is to force full-system replacement upgrades. Several recent dual core and quad core 64 bit Intel Macintosh models have been obsoleted by the latest version of Mac OS/X.

Anyway, http://www.debian.org/ is the place to go. Unless you have funding; then you might try http://www.redhat.com/ which is what I used for years back when they were free.

Redhat is still free. It is called "Fedora" and it is what I use, although I did not migrate to the most recent version because I do not like what the Gnome guys have done. Older gnome worked perfectly well. Then they had to change EVERYTHING, from how you start things automatically, to preference settings (there is no "focus follows mouse", for example, you have to click on a window to switch focus, which I do not like). But it has worked flawlessly on every machine I have tried over the past 5 years or so. wireless. bluetooth. Graphics card options. You name it. Intel CC compiler complains on install but works perfectly.

I briefly looked at Fedora and there is way to set up focus follow mouse. That is a big deal to me for usability as I generally have several windows open and don't like to constantly be fussing with them.

I don't remember the procedure but it did involved manually editing some configuration file - you cannot do it directly.

I tried Fedora 16 and asked about that. In Fedora 14 you could not do it directly, but by downloading an add-on module and then tweaking the config file, you could make it work. But when they went to the gnome-shell approach, I could not find anyone that could make it work, period...

[bob]

Ubuntu has been copying the look/feel from Apple's Mac OS/X for some time, and that's problematic at best. If Ubuntu could do it well, then Apple would sue them out of existence. But Ubuntu can't do it well because they don't have enough sufficiently talented coders to make the copied GUI eye candy work fast enough and without glitches.

Also, the main reason for Apple's look/feel feature creep is to force full-system replacement upgrades. Several recent dual core and quad core 64 bit Intel Macintosh models have been obsoleted by the latest version of Mac OS/X.

Anyway, http://www.debian.org/ is the place to go. Unless you have funding; then you might try http://www.redhat.com/ which is what I used for years back when they were free.

Redhat is still free. It is called "Fedora" and it is what I use, although I did not migrate to the most recent version because I do not like what the Gnome guys have done. Older gnome worked perfectly well. Then they had to change EVERYTHING, from how you start things automatically, to preference settings (there is no "focus follows mouse", for example, you have to click on a window to switch focus, which I do not like). But it has worked flawlessly on every machine I have tried over the past 5 years or so. wireless. bluetooth. Graphics card options. You name it. Intel CC compiler complains on install but works perfectly.

But for a 'normal' user, especially those switching from Windows, Fedora is a pain in the ass when it comes to proprietary codecs, graphic-card driver, etc. Ubuntu or Linux Mint are much more user-friendly in this regard.

Currently I run Linux Mint 13 with the xfce-desktop. Though I really loved the Unity-Desktop of Ubuntu at first, I must admit it has its disadvantages.

I have to say that Unix is superb, but these developments in my opinion work against the spirit of Unix. I don't believe Linux should be trying so hard to be all things to all people, it's really for power users and trying to cater to grandma and uncle Joe is a very uneasy fit for it.

I don't think it is "power user only" any longer. My wife made the switch with zero pain. OpenOffice works well, as does firefox and such. The GUI interface can be windows-like (if one likes windows-like of course). And the install is now completely painless.

Not to mention the key "no viruses" issue.

[lucasart]

Having used Ubuntu for some time, I have noticed three things:

1) General feature creep with the newly added features being poorly supported and of limited use to the experienced developer.

2) Dropped platform support (all PowerPC variants).

3) Dropped graphics support (I have an Acer/Nvidea combination which worked up to Ubuntu 10 but failed in 11 and the bug was still was not fixed in 12).

I am now switching from Ubuntu to plain old Debian on all my machines which can't handle Mac OS/X.

I used to love Ubuntu, but with the arrival of Unity and all the utter crap that comes with it, I really got fed up with it. It still beats my previous OS (Windows), but now Fedora 17 is my weapon of choice. And I love the Gnome Shell: this is really going in the right direction IMO.

Another good distribution is Lubuntu: it has all the package repo of Ubuntu/Debian which is great (along with apt-get/synaptic which is awesome), the clean/efficient/no non-sense UI that is LXDE. My only rants against Lubuntu are
* the choice of programs by default is quite poor, so you just have to uninstall a lot of crap and install proper software, but that's easy enough.
* it is still quite buggy, especially the file manager, which is embarassing. But it's improving gradually.

But I'm still thankful to Ubuntu: it was a stirrup for me, coming from Windows previously. But once I was on the saddle, I just wanted to kick it out of the way and ride on with a more proper distro.

[Don]

Ubuntu has been copying the look/feel from Apple's Mac OS/X for some time, and that's problematic at best. If Ubuntu could do it well, then Apple would sue them out of existence. But Ubuntu can't do it well because they don't have enough sufficiently talented coders to make the copied GUI eye candy work fast enough and without glitches.

Also, the main reason for Apple's look/feel feature creep is to force full-system replacement upgrades. Several recent dual core and quad core 64 bit Intel Macintosh models have been obsoleted by the latest version of Mac OS/X.

Anyway, http://www.debian.org/ is the place to go. Unless you have funding; then you might try http://www.redhat.com/ which is what I used for years back when they were free.

Redhat is still free. It is called "Fedora" and it is what I use, although I did not migrate to the most recent version because I do not like what the Gnome guys have done. Older gnome worked perfectly well. Then they had to change EVERYTHING, from how you start things automatically, to preference settings (there is no "focus follows mouse", for example, you have to click on a window to switch focus, which I do not like). But it has worked flawlessly on every machine I have tried over the past 5 years or so. wireless. bluetooth. Graphics card options. You name it. Intel CC compiler complains on install but works perfectly.

I briefly looked at Fedora and there is way to set up focus follow mouse. That is a big deal to me for usability as I generally have several windows open and don't like to constantly be fussing with them.

I don't remember the procedure but it did involved manually editing some configuration file - you cannot do it directly.

I tried Fedora 16 and asked about that. In Fedora 14 you could not do it directly, but by downloading an add-on module and then tweaking the config file, you could make it work. But when they went to the gnome-shell approach, I could not find anyone that could make it work, period...

I wish I could remember the details - but I was using Fedora 16 and I did not have to download anything. If I run across it again I will post it here. But I have basically grown up on debian based distributions anyway and I did not need yet another thing to re-learn.

I also must have the ability swap the caps-lock and Ctrl keys. I use emacs as my editor and the control key on the lower left is stressful to my pinky finger. But I have never had any trouble in any distributions finding a way to make that customization. I was first introduced in a big way to Unix when I worked for MIT and the Lab was full of Sun workstations. The control key was in a much more natural position and I really got used to that. I still think it's more logical because I doubt many people make heavy use of the caps-lock key and yet it is much easier to access on most keyboards.

I seriously doubt I will be with Ubuntu for much longer as Mark Shuttleworth's vision seems to be to make this as much like windows as possible and if I wanted that I would just use Windows.

[bob]

Ubuntu has been copying the look/feel from Apple's Mac OS/X for some time, and that's problematic at best. If Ubuntu could do it well, then Apple would sue them out of existence. But Ubuntu can't do it well because they don't have enough sufficiently talented coders to make the copied GUI eye candy work fast enough and without glitches.

Also, the main reason for Apple's look/feel feature creep is to force full-system replacement upgrades. Several recent dual core and quad core 64 bit Intel Macintosh models have been obsoleted by the latest version of Mac OS/X.

Anyway, http://www.debian.org/ is the place to go. Unless you have funding; then you might try http://www.redhat.com/ which is what I used for years back when they were free.

Redhat is still free. It is called "Fedora" and it is what I use, although I did not migrate to the most recent version because I do not like what the Gnome guys have done. Older gnome worked perfectly well. Then they had to change EVERYTHING, from how you start things automatically, to preference settings (there is no "focus follows mouse", for example, you have to click on a window to switch focus, which I do not like). But it has worked flawlessly on every machine I have tried over the past 5 years or so. wireless. bluetooth. Graphics card options. You name it. Intel CC compiler complains on install but works perfectly.

I briefly looked at Fedora and there is way to set up focus follow mouse. That is a big deal to me for usability as I generally have several windows open and don't like to constantly be fussing with them.

I don't remember the procedure but it did involved manually editing some configuration file - you cannot do it directly.

I tried Fedora 16 and asked about that. In Fedora 14 you could not do it directly, but by downloading an add-on module and then tweaking the config file, you could make it work. But when they went to the gnome-shell approach, I could not find anyone that could make it work, period...

I wish I could remember the details - but I was using Fedora 16 and I did not have to download anything. If I run across it again I will post it here. But I have basically grown up on debian based distributions anyway and I did not need yet another thing to re-learn.

I also must have the ability swap the caps-lock and Ctrl keys. I use emacs as my editor and the control key on the lower left is stressful to my pinky finger. But I have never had any trouble in any distributions finding a way to make that customization. I was first introduced in a big way to Unix when I worked for MIT and the Lab was full of Sun workstations. The control key was in a much more natural position and I really got used to that. I still think it's more logical because I doubt many people make heavy use of the caps-lock key and yet it is much easier to access on most keyboards.

I seriously doubt I will be with Ubuntu for much longer as Mark Shuttleworth's vision seems to be to make this as much like windows as possible and if I wanted that I would just use Windows.

Turning capslock into ctrl has always been an easy one. I have a simple .xmodmaprc file that always works with any x-based version I have tried. First startup it will ask if it should use it, I click "yes" and "capslock" is history.

[Don]

Ubuntu has been copying the look/feel from Apple's Mac OS/X for some time, and that's problematic at best. If Ubuntu could do it well, then Apple would sue them out of existence. But Ubuntu can't do it well because they don't have enough sufficiently talented coders to make the copied GUI eye candy work fast enough and without glitches.

Also, the main reason for Apple's look/feel feature creep is to force full-system replacement upgrades. Several recent dual core and quad core 64 bit Intel Macintosh models have been obsoleted by the latest version of Mac OS/X.

Anyway, http://www.debian.org/ is the place to go. Unless you have funding; then you might try http://www.redhat.com/ which is what I used for years back when they were free.

Redhat is still free. It is called "Fedora" and it is what I use, although I did not migrate to the most recent version because I do not like what the Gnome guys have done. Older gnome worked perfectly well. Then they had to change EVERYTHING, from how you start things automatically, to preference settings (there is no "focus follows mouse", for example, you have to click on a window to switch focus, which I do not like). But it has worked flawlessly on every machine I have tried over the past 5 years or so. wireless. bluetooth. Graphics card options. You name it. Intel CC compiler complains on install but works perfectly.

But for a 'normal' user, especially those switching from Windows, Fedora is a pain in the ass when it comes to proprietary codecs, graphic-card driver, etc. Ubuntu or Linux Mint are much more user-friendly in this regard.

Currently I run Linux Mint 13 with the xfce-desktop. Though I really loved the Unity-Desktop of Ubuntu at first, I must admit it has its disadvantages.

I have to say that Unix is superb, but these developments in my opinion work against the spirit of Unix. I don't believe Linux should be trying so hard to be all things to all people, it's really for power users and trying to cater to grandma and uncle Joe is a very uneasy fit for it.

I don't think it is "power user only" any longer. My wife made the switch with zero pain. OpenOffice works well, as does firefox and such. The GUI interface can be windows-like (if one likes windows-like of course). And the install is now completely painless.

Not to mention the key "no viruses" issue.

I have not seen anyone switch with zero pain - especially anyone who really was entrenched in Windows - so I can only assume your wife is very open and flexible about learning new things. Most people will undergo some pain. Some don't mind so it doesn't seem like pain - if they enjoy what they get in return and love the adventure.

There is no question that the role of the operating system and Unix itself has shifted enormously. Unix was not originally designed to be a single user system that you plop on your desktop and one person own it.

[Rein Halbersma]

The unix bash shell is so powerful that I actually considered setting up my desktop as a server without a GUI - you can have multiple virtual terminals easily, switch between them, set up fonts so that you can have a very large terminal (many lines) and of course you can use screen to pretty much has an unlimited number of them.

This is what people did in the good old days when configuring the X Windows server had to be done after installing the distro. The Ctr + Alt+ F1 through F6 gave you all the virtual consoles you needed.

[Don]

The unix bash shell is so powerful that I actually considered setting up my desktop as a server without a GUI - you can have multiple virtual terminals easily, switch between them, set up fonts so that you can have a very large terminal (many lines) and of course you can use screen to pretty much has an unlimited number of them.

This is what people did in the good old days when configuring the X Windows server had to be done after installing the distro. The Ctr + Alt+ F1 through F6 gave you all the virtual consoles you needed.

Yes, I use that a lot. Perhaps I should just ignore the manager and do this instead except for those cases when I need a browser.

[Michel]

I have not seen anyone switch with zero pain - especially anyone who really was entrenched in Windows - so I can only assume your wife is very open and flexible about learning new things.

In my experience it is zero pain when someone knowledgeable installs
it and takes care of the minor initial problems that plague any fresh
Linux install.

Of course I am talking Gnome 2 here. The story for Unity and Gnome 3
is quite different. Everyone I know wanted to get rid of those as quickly as possible.