We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Uri Blass
Posts: 11175
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by Uri Blass »

Chessqueen wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:31 am Here is the 2nd game with b1 Knight removed

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.05.11"]
[Round "2"]
[White "RubiChess-2.0.1-BMI2"]
[Black "Fruit 2.2.1"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "18:36:40"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "133"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. Bf4 c5 4. e3 Qb6 5. Rb1 Qa5+ 6. c3 Nc6 7. Be2 cxd4
8. exd4 Qxa2 9. O-O Be7 10. b4 Ne4 11. Qd3 d5 12. b5 Nd8 13. Rfc1 Nd6 14.
Nd2 Qa5 15. Ra1 Qc7 16. c4 Qd7 17. c5 Nf5 18. Nf3 O-O 19. Qd1 f6 20. h3 Nf7
21. Qc2 Ng5 22. Nxg5 fxg5 23. Be5 Bf6 24. Bxf6 Rxf6 25. Rd1 Qe8 26. Qb2 Bd7
27. Ra5 Qb8 28. Ra3 Qf4 29. Bf1 Rff8 30. g3 Qb8 31. Rc1 Kh8 32. Rf3 Rf7 33.
Qc3 Rf6 34. Qb4 e5 35. dxe5 Qxe5 36. Rd3 Re8 37. Rc2 Qb8 38. Qb2 Ne7 39.
Re3 Qc8 40. Rc1 Bxh3 41. Rce1 Be6 42. Qb4 Qd7 43. R1e2 g4 44. Bg2 d4 45.
Rd3 Nd5 46. Qxd4 Qxb5 47. Rb2 Qa6 48. Rdd2 Bf7 49. Rb1 Rf5 50. Ra1 Qc6 51.
Qxg4 Rfe5 52. Qh3 Qxc5 53. Qd7 Qb4 54. Rc2 R5e7 55. Qa4 Qb6 56. Qa5 Qf6 57.
Rac1 b6 58. Qa3 a5 59. Rf1 Nb4 60. Rcc1 Qg5 61. Rfd1 Bh5 62. Rd6 h6 63. Qa1
Nc2 64. Qb2 Ne1 65. Qd2 Qxd2 66. Rxd2 Nf3+ 67. Bxf3 {White resigns} 0-1[/pgn]
I see the name of RubiChess is 2.0.1 and not 2.1 so I wonder if it is the same engine.
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by Chessqueen »

Uri Blass wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:37 am
Chessqueen wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:31 am Here is the 2nd game with b1 Knight removed

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.05.11"]
[Round "2"]
[White "RubiChess-2.0.1-BMI2"]
[Black "Fruit 2.2.1"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "18:36:40"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "133"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. Bf4 c5 4. e3 Qb6 5. Rb1 Qa5+ 6. c3 Nc6 7. Be2 cxd4
8. exd4 Qxa2 9. O-O Be7 10. b4 Ne4 11. Qd3 d5 12. b5 Nd8 13. Rfc1 Nd6 14.
Nd2 Qa5 15. Ra1 Qc7 16. c4 Qd7 17. c5 Nf5 18. Nf3 O-O 19. Qd1 f6 20. h3 Nf7
21. Qc2 Ng5 22. Nxg5 fxg5 23. Be5 Bf6 24. Bxf6 Rxf6 25. Rd1 Qe8 26. Qb2 Bd7
27. Ra5 Qb8 28. Ra3 Qf4 29. Bf1 Rff8 30. g3 Qb8 31. Rc1 Kh8 32. Rf3 Rf7 33.
Qc3 Rf6 34. Qb4 e5 35. dxe5 Qxe5 36. Rd3 Re8 37. Rc2 Qb8 38. Qb2 Ne7 39.
Re3 Qc8 40. Rc1 Bxh3 41. Rce1 Be6 42. Qb4 Qd7 43. R1e2 g4 44. Bg2 d4 45.
Rd3 Nd5 46. Qxd4 Qxb5 47. Rb2 Qa6 48. Rdd2 Bf7 49. Rb1 Rf5 50. Ra1 Qc6 51.
Qxg4 Rfe5 52. Qh3 Qxc5 53. Qd7 Qb4 54. Rc2 R5e7 55. Qa4 Qb6 56. Qa5 Qf6 57.
Rac1 b6 58. Qa3 a5 59. Rf1 Nb4 60. Rcc1 Qg5 61. Rfd1 Bh5 62. Rd6 h6 63. Qa1
Nc2 64. Qb2 Ne1 65. Qd2 Qxd2 66. Rxd2 Nf3+ 67. Bxf3 {White resigns} 0-1[/pgn]
I see the name of RubiChess is 2.0.1 and not 2.1 so I wonder if it is the same engine.
Thanks, I did not see version 2.0.1 I will try to find it, Sorry. I downloaded it from here ==> https://github.com/Matthies/RubiChess/releases/tag/2.1
Uri Blass
Posts: 11175
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by Uri Blass »

lkaufman wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:35 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:47 pm
Uri Blass wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:04 pm I played only a single game of RubiChess without a knight against Fruit2.2.1 but RubiChess won

I wonder if Dragon is better than RubiChess against engines with knight odd conditions.
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.05.11"]
[Round "?"]
[White "RubiChess-2.1"]
[Black "Fruit2.2.1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[GameDuration "00:58:02"]
[GameEndTime "2021-05-11T20:01:45.254 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[GameStartTime "2021-05-11T19:03:42.388 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[PlyCount "179"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "40/780"]

1. d4 {-3.83/29 13s} Nf6 {+2.77/15 17s} 2. c4 {-3.79/31 16s} b6 {+2.96/15 31s}
3. Nc3 {-3.71/34 29s} Bb7 {+2.86/15 15s} 4. d5 {-3.73/35 23s} e5 {+2.92/15 27s}
5. a3 {-3.46/31 24s} Na6 {+2.91/16 26s} 6. g3 {-3.50/32 45s} Bc5 {+3.03/15 24s}
7. Bg2 {-3.11/30 16s} c6 {+3.04/15 22s} 8. O-O {-3.23/32 13s} O-O {+3.02/15 19s}
9. Ra2 {-3.57/32 56s} Bd4 {+3.13/14 14s} 10. Nb1 {-3.72/32 19s}
b5 {+3.04/15 20s} 11. d6 {-3.83/35 14s} bxc4 {+3.28/15 12s}
12. Nd2 {-3.87/36 15s} Qe8 {+3.41/16 20s} 13. Nxc4 {-3.87/36 42s}
Qe6 {+3.74/16 22s} 14. b3 {-4.05/37 14s} Nd5 {+3.06/15 20s}
15. Rc2 {-3.95/31 31s} f5 {+3.21/15 22s} 16. Na5 {-3.53/34 15s}
Rab8 {+3.61/14 15s} 17. b4 {-3.92/35 36s} Qxd6 {+3.57/14 15s}
18. e3 {-4.16/35 22s} Bb6 {+3.33/16 29s} 19. Nxb7 {-4.05/35 23s}
Rxb7 {+3.32/16 21s} 20. g4 {-4.21/36 16s} Nac7 {+3.16/16 57s}
21. gxf5 {-3.53/32 20s} Qe7 {+3.05/15 26s} 22. b5 {-3.57/32 13s}
Bc5 {+3.06/15 23s} 23. bxc6 {-3.64/32 35s} dxc6 {+2.98/14 7.7s}
24. Qd3 {-3.52/33 19s} Kh8 {+2.89/14 14s} 25. Qc4 {-3.77/33 16s}
Rb5 {+2.92/14 11s} 26. a4 {-3.58/32 14s} Ra5 {+2.92/15 11s}
27. Bd2 {-3.82/35 21s} Bb4 {+2.70/16 17s} 28. Rfc1 {-4.07/35 31s}
Rf6 {+2.93/14 16s} 29. Bxb4 {-3.92/31 23s} Nxb4 {+3.14/14 15s}
30. Rb2 {-4.24/33 14s} Nca6 {+3.16/15 16s} 31. Rcb1 {-3.96/36 12s}
c5 {+3.11/15 11s} 32. Qh4 {-3.60/28 7.9s} Qd7 {+3.44/15 27s}
33. Qh5 {-3.89/32 10.0s} Rd6 {+3.51/15 20s} 34. f6 {-2.50/33 13s}
gxf6 {+3.64/15 12s} 35. Be4 {-2.03/36 10s} Nc7 {+3.60/15 20s}
36. Kh1 {-1.87/33 9.6s} Ne6 {+3.32/14 14s} 37. Bf5 {-2.25/35 12s}
Qe7 {+3.27/14 12s} 38. f3 {-1.95/33 6.2s} Rd8 {+1.97/14 19s}
39. Rg1 {-1.92/34 9.5s} Rxa4 {+1.82/15 18s} 40. Rbg2 {-0.66/21 0.075s}
Ra2 {+1.81/15 12s} 41. Rg3 {-0.78/40 27s} Ng5 {+1.10/16 43s}
42. h4 {-0.99/39 17s} Nh3 {+1.06/15 14s} 43. Rxh3 {-0.92/39 13s}
Rad2 {+1.08/16 20s} 44. Rh2 {-0.93/39 14s} Rd1 {+1.26/16 32s}
45. Rg2 {-0.67/40 15s} Rxg1+ {+1.52/16 26s} 46. Rxg1 {-1.05/41 18s}
a5 {+1.55/17 25s} 47. Qg4 {-0.19/41 16s} Nd5 {+0.53/17 13s}
48. Be6 {-0.18/43 20s} Qf8 {+0.64/18 19s} 49. Qa4 {-0.16/44 20s}
Ne7 {+0.55/18 23s} 50. Qxa5 {-0.19/43 19s} Rd6 {+0.36/17 33s}
51. Bc4 {0.00/40 31s} Qc8 {+0.38/16 15s} 52. Kh2 {0.00/45 23s}
Ng6 {+0.29/15 16s} 53. h5 {0.00/42 18s} Ne7 {+0.25/15 15s} 54. Rg4 {0.00/45 17s}
Qe8 {+0.27/15 28s} 55. Kg2 {0.00/42 17s} Qc6 {+0.22/15 18s}
56. h6 {+0.53/40 20s} f5 {-0.11/15 21s} 57. Rg5 {+0.71/38 21s}
Ng6 {-0.40/15 14s} 58. Kf2 {+0.85/38 15s} Qb7 {-0.51/15 10s}
59. Rxf5 {+1.68/38 19s} Qe7 {-0.54/16 20s} 60. Rh5 {+1.56/39 18s}
Rd8 {-0.70/16 17s} 61. Qa6 {+1.67/42 25s} Rd2+ {-0.63/15 19s}
62. Kg3 {+2.38/36 18s} Rd6 {-0.80/15 11s} 63. Qc8+ {+1.63/38 18s}
Rd8 {-1.14/19 11s} 64. Qe6 {+2.02/43 32s} Qxe6 {-1.14/19 11s}
65. Bxe6 {+2.22/42 34s} Rb8 {-1.14/19 24s} 66. Kg4 {+2.53/39 17s}
Rf8 {-1.25/18 20s} 67. Rh1 {+3.04/40 26s} Ne7 {-1.41/20 18s}
68. f4 {+2.85/47 28s} exf4 {-1.51/18 11s} 69. exf4 {+2.80/47 16s}
Ng6 {-1.68/20 26s} 70. f5 {+2.96/47 20s} Ne5+ {-1.74/21 23s}
71. Kf4 {+3.89/41 20s} Nc6 {-2.23/20 18s} 72. Kg5 {+4.13/44 15s}
Ne5 {-2.79/22 42s} 73. Rb1 {+4.21/45 22s} Nf3+ {-2.26/20 13s}
74. Kg4 {+4.37/47 26s} Ne5+ {-2.73/22 58s} 75. Kg5 {+4.45/46 12s}
Nf3+ {0.00/27 8.1s} 76. Kf4 {+4.53/50 23s} Nd4 {-2.65/20 12s}
77. Ke4 {+4.80/39 10s} Rd8 {-2.64/19 6.4s} 78. Rb7 {+4.86/44 14s}
Re8 {-2.79/20 14s} 79. Ke5 {+5.44/38 12s} Rd8 {-2.79/18 13s}
80. f6 {+12.74/35 6.5s} Nc6+ {-2.96/16 9.6s} 81. Ke4 {+96.41/39 36s}
Nd4 {-M18/16 20s} 82. Bd5 {+M17/48 27s} Re8+ {-M16/26 16s} 83. Re7 {+M15/50 35s}
Rg8 {-M14/49 14s} 84. f7 {+M13/49 24s} Rg4+ {-M12/57 17s} 85. Ke5 {+M11/49 15s}
Rg5+ {-M10/57 17s} 86. Kf4 {+M9/59 23s} Rf5+ {-M8/56 17s} 87. Kg4 {+M7/65 15s}
Rg5+ {-M6/54 13s} 88. Kxg5 {+M5/67 17s} Ne6+ {-M4/53 13s} 89. Rxe6 {+M3/86 16s}
c4 {-M2/4 0.001s} 90. f8=Q# {+M1/86 34s, White mates} 1-0

[/pgn]
Very interesting, but it is only one game, I wonder how many games it will win if it plays the same amount of games that Komodo played ?
Dragon 2 lost badly giving knight odds to Benjamin 1.0 (2698 CCRL Rapid), +27 -92 =5 (-202 elo) in Rapid (15' + 10"). I've noted before here that this Ed Shroder program is unusually good at playing receiving knight odds, so I shouldn't be surprised. It is really much closer to a human substitute than other engines of the same rating. Good work, Ed! Against Arasan 14.1 (2651 CCRL Rapid), Dragon 2 is currently leading by 31 to 22 with 7 draws at knight odds, match continuing. So overall it seems to perform around 2680 or so against engines other than Benjamin at knight odds, but only around 2500 against Benjamin.
Regarding RubiChess, I'm not familiar with it, but is there any particular reason to expect it to perform better giving knight odds than other higher rated engines? Were threads set to 1 for both engines in the above game (I think Fruit 2.2.1 is only single thread)?

I gave RubiChess 3 threads and not one thread in the games that I did but the reasons I expected RubiChess to perform better are:
1)It is number 4 in the CCRL list
https://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/

2)earlier I tested it with bigger handicap (in a queen handicap tournament) when I included also stockfish13 and I found that stockfish was clearly weak in these conditions and RubiChess simply mated faster in pair of games against stockfish.
RubiChess was also the only engine that could get points against with queen handicap against Dreamer 0.3.0 64-bit in my tests
see
http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=77257

3)I decided that I do not like Stockfish because of the big failure of it to mate faster with an advantage of a queen.
Number 2 and 3 are commercial programs so I guess that the best candidate of engines that are not commercial is simply RubiChess that is number 4.
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by Chessqueen »

Chessqueen wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:48 am
Uri Blass wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:37 am
Chessqueen wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:31 am Here is the 2nd game with b1 Knight removed

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.05.11"]
[Round "2"]
[White "RubiChess-2.0.1-BMI2"]
[Black "Fruit 2.2.1"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "18:36:40"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "133"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. Bf4 c5 4. e3 Qb6 5. Rb1 Qa5+ 6. c3 Nc6 7. Be2 cxd4
8. exd4 Qxa2 9. O-O Be7 10. b4 Ne4 11. Qd3 d5 12. b5 Nd8 13. Rfc1 Nd6 14.
Nd2 Qa5 15. Ra1 Qc7 16. c4 Qd7 17. c5 Nf5 18. Nf3 O-O 19. Qd1 f6 20. h3 Nf7
21. Qc2 Ng5 22. Nxg5 fxg5 23. Be5 Bf6 24. Bxf6 Rxf6 25. Rd1 Qe8 26. Qb2 Bd7
27. Ra5 Qb8 28. Ra3 Qf4 29. Bf1 Rff8 30. g3 Qb8 31. Rc1 Kh8 32. Rf3 Rf7 33.
Qc3 Rf6 34. Qb4 e5 35. dxe5 Qxe5 36. Rd3 Re8 37. Rc2 Qb8 38. Qb2 Ne7 39.
Re3 Qc8 40. Rc1 Bxh3 41. Rce1 Be6 42. Qb4 Qd7 43. R1e2 g4 44. Bg2 d4 45.
Rd3 Nd5 46. Qxd4 Qxb5 47. Rb2 Qa6 48. Rdd2 Bf7 49. Rb1 Rf5 50. Ra1 Qc6 51.
Qxg4 Rfe5 52. Qh3 Qxc5 53. Qd7 Qb4 54. Rc2 R5e7 55. Qa4 Qb6 56. Qa5 Qf6 57.
Rac1 b6 58. Qa3 a5 59. Rf1 Nb4 60. Rcc1 Qg5 61. Rfd1 Bh5 62. Rd6 h6 63. Qa1
Nc2 64. Qb2 Ne1 65. Qd2 Qxd2 66. Rxd2 Nf3+ 67. Bxf3 {White resigns} 0-1[/pgn]
I see the name of RubiChess is 2.0.1 and not 2.1 so I wonder if it is the same engine.
Thanks, I did not see version 2.0.1 I will try to find it, Sorry. I downloaded it from here ==> https://github.com/Matthies/RubiChess/releases/tag/2.1
Sorry I copied the wrong version, I am running it again :oops:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by Chessqueen »

Uri Blass wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:51 am
lkaufman wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:35 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:47 pm
Uri Blass wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:04 pm I played only a single game of RubiChess without a knight against Fruit2.2.1 but RubiChess won

I wonder if Dragon is better than RubiChess against engines with knight odd conditions.
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.05.11"]
[Round "?"]
[White "RubiChess-2.1"]
[Black "Fruit2.2.1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[GameDuration "00:58:02"]
[GameEndTime "2021-05-11T20:01:45.254 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[GameStartTime "2021-05-11T19:03:42.388 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[PlyCount "179"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "40/780"]

1. d4 {-3.83/29 13s} Nf6 {+2.77/15 17s} 2. c4 {-3.79/31 16s} b6 {+2.96/15 31s}
3. Nc3 {-3.71/34 29s} Bb7 {+2.86/15 15s} 4. d5 {-3.73/35 23s} e5 {+2.92/15 27s}
5. a3 {-3.46/31 24s} Na6 {+2.91/16 26s} 6. g3 {-3.50/32 45s} Bc5 {+3.03/15 24s}
7. Bg2 {-3.11/30 16s} c6 {+3.04/15 22s} 8. O-O {-3.23/32 13s} O-O {+3.02/15 19s}
9. Ra2 {-3.57/32 56s} Bd4 {+3.13/14 14s} 10. Nb1 {-3.72/32 19s}
b5 {+3.04/15 20s} 11. d6 {-3.83/35 14s} bxc4 {+3.28/15 12s}
12. Nd2 {-3.87/36 15s} Qe8 {+3.41/16 20s} 13. Nxc4 {-3.87/36 42s}
Qe6 {+3.74/16 22s} 14. b3 {-4.05/37 14s} Nd5 {+3.06/15 20s}
15. Rc2 {-3.95/31 31s} f5 {+3.21/15 22s} 16. Na5 {-3.53/34 15s}
Rab8 {+3.61/14 15s} 17. b4 {-3.92/35 36s} Qxd6 {+3.57/14 15s}
18. e3 {-4.16/35 22s} Bb6 {+3.33/16 29s} 19. Nxb7 {-4.05/35 23s}
Rxb7 {+3.32/16 21s} 20. g4 {-4.21/36 16s} Nac7 {+3.16/16 57s}
21. gxf5 {-3.53/32 20s} Qe7 {+3.05/15 26s} 22. b5 {-3.57/32 13s}
Bc5 {+3.06/15 23s} 23. bxc6 {-3.64/32 35s} dxc6 {+2.98/14 7.7s}
24. Qd3 {-3.52/33 19s} Kh8 {+2.89/14 14s} 25. Qc4 {-3.77/33 16s}
Rb5 {+2.92/14 11s} 26. a4 {-3.58/32 14s} Ra5 {+2.92/15 11s}
27. Bd2 {-3.82/35 21s} Bb4 {+2.70/16 17s} 28. Rfc1 {-4.07/35 31s}
Rf6 {+2.93/14 16s} 29. Bxb4 {-3.92/31 23s} Nxb4 {+3.14/14 15s}
30. Rb2 {-4.24/33 14s} Nca6 {+3.16/15 16s} 31. Rcb1 {-3.96/36 12s}
c5 {+3.11/15 11s} 32. Qh4 {-3.60/28 7.9s} Qd7 {+3.44/15 27s}
33. Qh5 {-3.89/32 10.0s} Rd6 {+3.51/15 20s} 34. f6 {-2.50/33 13s}
gxf6 {+3.64/15 12s} 35. Be4 {-2.03/36 10s} Nc7 {+3.60/15 20s}
36. Kh1 {-1.87/33 9.6s} Ne6 {+3.32/14 14s} 37. Bf5 {-2.25/35 12s}
Qe7 {+3.27/14 12s} 38. f3 {-1.95/33 6.2s} Rd8 {+1.97/14 19s}
39. Rg1 {-1.92/34 9.5s} Rxa4 {+1.82/15 18s} 40. Rbg2 {-0.66/21 0.075s}
Ra2 {+1.81/15 12s} 41. Rg3 {-0.78/40 27s} Ng5 {+1.10/16 43s}
42. h4 {-0.99/39 17s} Nh3 {+1.06/15 14s} 43. Rxh3 {-0.92/39 13s}
Rad2 {+1.08/16 20s} 44. Rh2 {-0.93/39 14s} Rd1 {+1.26/16 32s}
45. Rg2 {-0.67/40 15s} Rxg1+ {+1.52/16 26s} 46. Rxg1 {-1.05/41 18s}
a5 {+1.55/17 25s} 47. Qg4 {-0.19/41 16s} Nd5 {+0.53/17 13s}
48. Be6 {-0.18/43 20s} Qf8 {+0.64/18 19s} 49. Qa4 {-0.16/44 20s}
Ne7 {+0.55/18 23s} 50. Qxa5 {-0.19/43 19s} Rd6 {+0.36/17 33s}
51. Bc4 {0.00/40 31s} Qc8 {+0.38/16 15s} 52. Kh2 {0.00/45 23s}
Ng6 {+0.29/15 16s} 53. h5 {0.00/42 18s} Ne7 {+0.25/15 15s} 54. Rg4 {0.00/45 17s}
Qe8 {+0.27/15 28s} 55. Kg2 {0.00/42 17s} Qc6 {+0.22/15 18s}
56. h6 {+0.53/40 20s} f5 {-0.11/15 21s} 57. Rg5 {+0.71/38 21s}
Ng6 {-0.40/15 14s} 58. Kf2 {+0.85/38 15s} Qb7 {-0.51/15 10s}
59. Rxf5 {+1.68/38 19s} Qe7 {-0.54/16 20s} 60. Rh5 {+1.56/39 18s}
Rd8 {-0.70/16 17s} 61. Qa6 {+1.67/42 25s} Rd2+ {-0.63/15 19s}
62. Kg3 {+2.38/36 18s} Rd6 {-0.80/15 11s} 63. Qc8+ {+1.63/38 18s}
Rd8 {-1.14/19 11s} 64. Qe6 {+2.02/43 32s} Qxe6 {-1.14/19 11s}
65. Bxe6 {+2.22/42 34s} Rb8 {-1.14/19 24s} 66. Kg4 {+2.53/39 17s}
Rf8 {-1.25/18 20s} 67. Rh1 {+3.04/40 26s} Ne7 {-1.41/20 18s}
68. f4 {+2.85/47 28s} exf4 {-1.51/18 11s} 69. exf4 {+2.80/47 16s}
Ng6 {-1.68/20 26s} 70. f5 {+2.96/47 20s} Ne5+ {-1.74/21 23s}
71. Kf4 {+3.89/41 20s} Nc6 {-2.23/20 18s} 72. Kg5 {+4.13/44 15s}
Ne5 {-2.79/22 42s} 73. Rb1 {+4.21/45 22s} Nf3+ {-2.26/20 13s}
74. Kg4 {+4.37/47 26s} Ne5+ {-2.73/22 58s} 75. Kg5 {+4.45/46 12s}
Nf3+ {0.00/27 8.1s} 76. Kf4 {+4.53/50 23s} Nd4 {-2.65/20 12s}
77. Ke4 {+4.80/39 10s} Rd8 {-2.64/19 6.4s} 78. Rb7 {+4.86/44 14s}
Re8 {-2.79/20 14s} 79. Ke5 {+5.44/38 12s} Rd8 {-2.79/18 13s}
80. f6 {+12.74/35 6.5s} Nc6+ {-2.96/16 9.6s} 81. Ke4 {+96.41/39 36s}
Nd4 {-M18/16 20s} 82. Bd5 {+M17/48 27s} Re8+ {-M16/26 16s} 83. Re7 {+M15/50 35s}
Rg8 {-M14/49 14s} 84. f7 {+M13/49 24s} Rg4+ {-M12/57 17s} 85. Ke5 {+M11/49 15s}
Rg5+ {-M10/57 17s} 86. Kf4 {+M9/59 23s} Rf5+ {-M8/56 17s} 87. Kg4 {+M7/65 15s}
Rg5+ {-M6/54 13s} 88. Kxg5 {+M5/67 17s} Ne6+ {-M4/53 13s} 89. Rxe6 {+M3/86 16s}
c4 {-M2/4 0.001s} 90. f8=Q# {+M1/86 34s, White mates} 1-0

[/pgn]
Very interesting, but it is only one game, I wonder how many games it will win if it plays the same amount of games that Komodo played ?
Dragon 2 lost badly giving knight odds to Benjamin 1.0 (2698 CCRL Rapid), +27 -92 =5 (-202 elo) in Rapid (15' + 10"). I've noted before here that this Ed Shroder program is unusually good at playing receiving knight odds, so I shouldn't be surprised. It is really much closer to a human substitute than other engines of the same rating. Good work, Ed! Against Arasan 14.1 (2651 CCRL Rapid), Dragon 2 is currently leading by 31 to 22 with 7 draws at knight odds, match continuing. So overall it seems to perform around 2680 or so against engines other than Benjamin at knight odds, but only around 2500 against Benjamin.
Regarding RubiChess, I'm not familiar with it, but is there any particular reason to expect it to perform better giving knight odds than other higher rated engines? Were threads set to 1 for both engines in the above game (I think Fruit 2.2.1 is only single thread)?

I gave RubiChess 3 threads and not one thread in the games that I did but the reasons I expected RubiChess to perform better are:
1)It is number 4 in the CCRL list
https://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/

2)earlier I tested it with bigger handicap (in a queen handicap tournament) when I included also stockfish13 and I found that stockfish was clearly weak in these conditions and RubiChess simply mated faster in pair of games against stockfish.
RubiChess was also the only engine that could get points against with queen handicap against Dreamer 0.3.0 64-bit in my tests
see
http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=77257

3)I decided that I do not like Stockfish because of the big failure of it to mate faster with an advantage of a queen.
Number 2 and 3 are commercial programs so I guess that the best candidate of engines that are not commercial is simply RubiChess that is number 4.
Here is "RubiChess 2.1 NN-cf8c5 (bmi2) with 3 cores. I am guessing that the next move was going to be RxB followed by d2!

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.05.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "RubiChess 2.1 NN-cf8c5 (bmi2)"]
[Black "Fruit 2.2.1"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "20:34:47"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "107"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. Bf4 Nf6 5. e3 Bb4 6. Qc2 O-O 7. a3 Bxc3+ 8.
Qxc3 dxc4 9. Bxc4 Nd5 10. Bxd5 exd5 11. O-O Bf5 12. Rfc1 Re8 13. b4 Qd7 14.
b5 Nd8 15. Qxc7 Qxb5 16. a4 Qb3 17. Qc3 Qxc3 18. Rxc3 Ne6 19. Bg3 Rac8 20.
Rb3 Re7 21. h3 f6 22. a5 h5 23. Kh2 Kf7 24. f3 Rd7 25. Ra2 Bc2 26. Rbb2 Bd3
27. Ra3 Ba6 28. Rba2 Rdd8 29. Bf2 Rc4 30. Be1 Re8 31. Bf2 f5 32. Ra1 f4 33.
R1a2 Rec8 34. exf4 Nxf4 35. Rd2 Ne6 36. Kg3 g5 37. h4 gxh4+ 38. Kh2 Rc2 39.
Ra2 Rxa2 40. Rxa2 Rc1 41. Bxh4 Rd1 42. g4 hxg4 43. fxg4 Rxd4 44. Rf2+ Kg8
45. Kg3 Ra4 46. Rf6 Re4 47. Rf5 Be2 48. Kf2 d4 49. Be7 d3 50. Rd5 Kf7 51.
Bh4 Rxg4 52. Rd7+ Kf8 53. Bg3 Ke8 54. Rh7 {White resigns} *[/pgn]
lkaufman
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Full name: Larry Kaufman

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by lkaufman »

Uri Blass wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:51 am
lkaufman wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:35 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:47 pm
Uri Blass wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:04 pm I played only a single game of RubiChess without a knight against Fruit2.2.1 but RubiChess won

I wonder if Dragon is better than RubiChess against engines with knight odd conditions.
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.05.11"]
[Round "?"]
[White "RubiChess-2.1"]
[Black "Fruit2.2.1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[GameDuration "00:58:02"]
[GameEndTime "2021-05-11T20:01:45.254 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[GameStartTime "2021-05-11T19:03:42.388 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[PlyCount "179"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "40/780"]

1. d4 {-3.83/29 13s} Nf6 {+2.77/15 17s} 2. c4 {-3.79/31 16s} b6 {+2.96/15 31s}
3. Nc3 {-3.71/34 29s} Bb7 {+2.86/15 15s} 4. d5 {-3.73/35 23s} e5 {+2.92/15 27s}
5. a3 {-3.46/31 24s} Na6 {+2.91/16 26s} 6. g3 {-3.50/32 45s} Bc5 {+3.03/15 24s}
7. Bg2 {-3.11/30 16s} c6 {+3.04/15 22s} 8. O-O {-3.23/32 13s} O-O {+3.02/15 19s}
9. Ra2 {-3.57/32 56s} Bd4 {+3.13/14 14s} 10. Nb1 {-3.72/32 19s}
b5 {+3.04/15 20s} 11. d6 {-3.83/35 14s} bxc4 {+3.28/15 12s}
12. Nd2 {-3.87/36 15s} Qe8 {+3.41/16 20s} 13. Nxc4 {-3.87/36 42s}
Qe6 {+3.74/16 22s} 14. b3 {-4.05/37 14s} Nd5 {+3.06/15 20s}
15. Rc2 {-3.95/31 31s} f5 {+3.21/15 22s} 16. Na5 {-3.53/34 15s}
Rab8 {+3.61/14 15s} 17. b4 {-3.92/35 36s} Qxd6 {+3.57/14 15s}
18. e3 {-4.16/35 22s} Bb6 {+3.33/16 29s} 19. Nxb7 {-4.05/35 23s}
Rxb7 {+3.32/16 21s} 20. g4 {-4.21/36 16s} Nac7 {+3.16/16 57s}
21. gxf5 {-3.53/32 20s} Qe7 {+3.05/15 26s} 22. b5 {-3.57/32 13s}
Bc5 {+3.06/15 23s} 23. bxc6 {-3.64/32 35s} dxc6 {+2.98/14 7.7s}
24. Qd3 {-3.52/33 19s} Kh8 {+2.89/14 14s} 25. Qc4 {-3.77/33 16s}
Rb5 {+2.92/14 11s} 26. a4 {-3.58/32 14s} Ra5 {+2.92/15 11s}
27. Bd2 {-3.82/35 21s} Bb4 {+2.70/16 17s} 28. Rfc1 {-4.07/35 31s}
Rf6 {+2.93/14 16s} 29. Bxb4 {-3.92/31 23s} Nxb4 {+3.14/14 15s}
30. Rb2 {-4.24/33 14s} Nca6 {+3.16/15 16s} 31. Rcb1 {-3.96/36 12s}
c5 {+3.11/15 11s} 32. Qh4 {-3.60/28 7.9s} Qd7 {+3.44/15 27s}
33. Qh5 {-3.89/32 10.0s} Rd6 {+3.51/15 20s} 34. f6 {-2.50/33 13s}
gxf6 {+3.64/15 12s} 35. Be4 {-2.03/36 10s} Nc7 {+3.60/15 20s}
36. Kh1 {-1.87/33 9.6s} Ne6 {+3.32/14 14s} 37. Bf5 {-2.25/35 12s}
Qe7 {+3.27/14 12s} 38. f3 {-1.95/33 6.2s} Rd8 {+1.97/14 19s}
39. Rg1 {-1.92/34 9.5s} Rxa4 {+1.82/15 18s} 40. Rbg2 {-0.66/21 0.075s}
Ra2 {+1.81/15 12s} 41. Rg3 {-0.78/40 27s} Ng5 {+1.10/16 43s}
42. h4 {-0.99/39 17s} Nh3 {+1.06/15 14s} 43. Rxh3 {-0.92/39 13s}
Rad2 {+1.08/16 20s} 44. Rh2 {-0.93/39 14s} Rd1 {+1.26/16 32s}
45. Rg2 {-0.67/40 15s} Rxg1+ {+1.52/16 26s} 46. Rxg1 {-1.05/41 18s}
a5 {+1.55/17 25s} 47. Qg4 {-0.19/41 16s} Nd5 {+0.53/17 13s}
48. Be6 {-0.18/43 20s} Qf8 {+0.64/18 19s} 49. Qa4 {-0.16/44 20s}
Ne7 {+0.55/18 23s} 50. Qxa5 {-0.19/43 19s} Rd6 {+0.36/17 33s}
51. Bc4 {0.00/40 31s} Qc8 {+0.38/16 15s} 52. Kh2 {0.00/45 23s}
Ng6 {+0.29/15 16s} 53. h5 {0.00/42 18s} Ne7 {+0.25/15 15s} 54. Rg4 {0.00/45 17s}
Qe8 {+0.27/15 28s} 55. Kg2 {0.00/42 17s} Qc6 {+0.22/15 18s}
56. h6 {+0.53/40 20s} f5 {-0.11/15 21s} 57. Rg5 {+0.71/38 21s}
Ng6 {-0.40/15 14s} 58. Kf2 {+0.85/38 15s} Qb7 {-0.51/15 10s}
59. Rxf5 {+1.68/38 19s} Qe7 {-0.54/16 20s} 60. Rh5 {+1.56/39 18s}
Rd8 {-0.70/16 17s} 61. Qa6 {+1.67/42 25s} Rd2+ {-0.63/15 19s}
62. Kg3 {+2.38/36 18s} Rd6 {-0.80/15 11s} 63. Qc8+ {+1.63/38 18s}
Rd8 {-1.14/19 11s} 64. Qe6 {+2.02/43 32s} Qxe6 {-1.14/19 11s}
65. Bxe6 {+2.22/42 34s} Rb8 {-1.14/19 24s} 66. Kg4 {+2.53/39 17s}
Rf8 {-1.25/18 20s} 67. Rh1 {+3.04/40 26s} Ne7 {-1.41/20 18s}
68. f4 {+2.85/47 28s} exf4 {-1.51/18 11s} 69. exf4 {+2.80/47 16s}
Ng6 {-1.68/20 26s} 70. f5 {+2.96/47 20s} Ne5+ {-1.74/21 23s}
71. Kf4 {+3.89/41 20s} Nc6 {-2.23/20 18s} 72. Kg5 {+4.13/44 15s}
Ne5 {-2.79/22 42s} 73. Rb1 {+4.21/45 22s} Nf3+ {-2.26/20 13s}
74. Kg4 {+4.37/47 26s} Ne5+ {-2.73/22 58s} 75. Kg5 {+4.45/46 12s}
Nf3+ {0.00/27 8.1s} 76. Kf4 {+4.53/50 23s} Nd4 {-2.65/20 12s}
77. Ke4 {+4.80/39 10s} Rd8 {-2.64/19 6.4s} 78. Rb7 {+4.86/44 14s}
Re8 {-2.79/20 14s} 79. Ke5 {+5.44/38 12s} Rd8 {-2.79/18 13s}
80. f6 {+12.74/35 6.5s} Nc6+ {-2.96/16 9.6s} 81. Ke4 {+96.41/39 36s}
Nd4 {-M18/16 20s} 82. Bd5 {+M17/48 27s} Re8+ {-M16/26 16s} 83. Re7 {+M15/50 35s}
Rg8 {-M14/49 14s} 84. f7 {+M13/49 24s} Rg4+ {-M12/57 17s} 85. Ke5 {+M11/49 15s}
Rg5+ {-M10/57 17s} 86. Kf4 {+M9/59 23s} Rf5+ {-M8/56 17s} 87. Kg4 {+M7/65 15s}
Rg5+ {-M6/54 13s} 88. Kxg5 {+M5/67 17s} Ne6+ {-M4/53 13s} 89. Rxe6 {+M3/86 16s}
c4 {-M2/4 0.001s} 90. f8=Q# {+M1/86 34s, White mates} 1-0

[/pgn]
Very interesting, but it is only one game, I wonder how many games it will win if it plays the same amount of games that Komodo played ?
Dragon 2 lost badly giving knight odds to Benjamin 1.0 (2698 CCRL Rapid), +27 -92 =5 (-202 elo) in Rapid (15' + 10"). I've noted before here that this Ed Shroder program is unusually good at playing receiving knight odds, so I shouldn't be surprised. It is really much closer to a human substitute than other engines of the same rating. Good work, Ed! Against Arasan 14.1 (2651 CCRL Rapid), Dragon 2 is currently leading by 31 to 22 with 7 draws at knight odds, match continuing. So overall it seems to perform around 2680 or so against engines other than Benjamin at knight odds, but only around 2500 against Benjamin.
Regarding RubiChess, I'm not familiar with it, but is there any particular reason to expect it to perform better giving knight odds than other higher rated engines? Were threads set to 1 for both engines in the above game (I think Fruit 2.2.1 is only single thread)?

I gave RubiChess 3 threads and not one thread in the games that I did but the reasons I expected RubiChess to perform better are:
1)It is number 4 in the CCRL list
https://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/

2)earlier I tested it with bigger handicap (in a queen handicap tournament) when I included also stockfish13 and I found that stockfish was clearly weak in these conditions and RubiChess simply mated faster in pair of games against stockfish.
RubiChess was also the only engine that could get points against with queen handicap against Dreamer 0.3.0 64-bit in my tests
see
http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=77257

3)I decided that I do not like Stockfish because of the big failure of it to mate faster with an advantage of a queen.
Number 2 and 3 are commercial programs so I guess that the best candidate of engines that are not commercial is simply RubiChess that is number 4.
OK, so your test was with three threads vs. 1 for Fruit, while mine was one thread for each, same as chessqueen. Perhaps I'll try Stockfish and RubiChess in the same way as I tested Dragon in the coming days. Probably we should focus on Benjamin as the odds-receiver, it seems to have a much more human-like ability to utilize the knight handicap than other engines of similar rating, and it's a free download. I also checked out Lc0 (recent version, cpu-version) setting a low nps to get it down around the strength of these 2700 rated engines, and it acts about like Benjamin in that with a setting of 1.5 nodes per second it is about even with Benjamin and also beats Dragon 2 with knight odds by a similar margin as Benjamin. So we might as well use Benjamin, so as to avoid having to deal with what version and nps setting of Lc0cpu to use. I wouldn't make any assumptions comparing queen odds with knight odds; Stockfish and Dragon and perhaps other NNUE engines fully or partially disable NNUE when one side is up much more than a knight, but with knight odds NNUE is still generally used I think. As a chessplayer I consider knight odds chess to still be chess, but queen odds chess is just something to use to teach or evaluate novices, it's not a meaningful test of chess strength for the odds-giver.
Komodo rules!
Uri Blass
Posts: 11175
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by Uri Blass »

knight odd default stockfish13 lost against fruit in the single fast game that I did

I tried latest developement version(contempt 100) and it scored better so I will try also latest stockfish


I tried one fast game with stockfish13 and Fruit won easily

I change the contempt of stockfish13 to 100.

I do not understand 8.Ba3 of Stockfish and it seems stockfish13 does not know not to trade piece when it has less of material.

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.05.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_13_win_x64"]
[Black "Fruit2.2.1"]
[Result "0-1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[GameDuration "00:17:30"]
[GameEndTime "2021-05-12T10:27:30.060 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[GameStartTime "2021-05-12T10:09:59.218 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[PlyCount "132"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]

1. d4 {-4.51/30 17s} Nf6 {+2.74/14 8.6s} 2. g3 {-4.47/29 11s} d5 {+3.18/14 6.3s}
3. Bg2 {-4.75/27 2.8s} e6 {+3.00/14 15s} 4. c4 {-4.65/30 15s}
dxc4 {+3.00/13 6.3s} 5. O-O {-4.40/25 4.7s} Nc6 {+3.06/13 8.2s}
6. b3 {-4.63/28 15s} cxb3 {+3.67/14 12s} 7. axb3 {-4.55/28 1.7s}
Nxd4 {+3.91/14 9.6s} 8. Ba3 {-5.18/28 33s} Bxa3 {+4.19/13 6.0s}
9. Nxa3 {-5.42/26 3.6s} O-O {+4.03/14 11s} 10. e3 {-5.48/28 12s}
Nf5 {+4.16/14 5.9s} 11. Qxd8 {-5.32/25 3.5s} Rxd8 {+4.41/13 3.8s}
12. Rfc1 {-5.51/31 20s} c6 {+4.40/15 5.0s} 13. Nc4 {-5.72/27 3.5s}
a6 {+4.42/14 4.8s} 14. Rd1 {-5.46/24 3.1s} Bd7 {+4.27/15 6.9s}
15. Na5 {-6.25/30 26s} Rab8 {+4.46/15 5.3s} 16. e4 {-6.25/29 18s}
Ne7 {+4.57/15 4.6s} 17. b4 {-5.86/24 1.6s} e5 {+4.56/15 7.6s}
18. Nc4 {-6.13/29 9.0s} Ng6 {+4.77/15 6.1s} 19. Na5 {-6.29/28 3.5s}
Kf8 {+4.73/16 7.9s} 20. f3 {-6.71/28 19s} Ke7 {+4.69/16 9.5s}
21. Bf1 {-6.63/23 1.2s} h5 {+4.75/15 8.3s} 22. Kf2 {-6.52/26 10s}
h4 {+4.82/14 8.4s} 23. Rd2 {-6.56/26 12s} Rh8 {+4.77/13 6.4s}
24. Kg1 {-6.23/25 6.3s} Rh5 {+4.88/14 4.5s} 25. Rad1 {-5.99/27 7.5s}
Nf8 {+4.91/15 9.1s} 26. g4 {-5.91/23 1.0s} Rg5 {+4.88/15 4.4s}
27. h3 {-6.40/25 5.6s} Ne6 {+4.89/15 8.3s} 28. Nc4 {-6.35/26 9.1s}
b5 {+5.01/14 5.7s} 29. Ne3 {-5.82/22 0.89s} Nd4 {+4.89/14 7.6s}
30. Kf2 {-5.86/22 1.5s} Be6 {+4.84/14 8.9s} 31. Re1 {-6.21/23 7.1s}
g6 {+4.97/13 7.4s} 32. Nc2 {-7.19/24 5.2s} Nb3 {+5.14/14 7.4s}
33. Rd3 {-6.87/24 2.2s} c5 {+5.45/14 4.5s} 34. bxc5 {-6.94/21 0.79s}
Nxc5 {+5.48/14 5.9s} 35. Rc3 {-7.06/24 0.76s} Rc8 {+5.42/13 5.2s}
36. Kg1 {-6.99/24 0.62s} Nd3 {+5.44/14 5.7s} 37. Rxd3 {-6.95/23 0.86s}
Rxc2 {+5.36/17 11s} 38. Ra1 {-7.13/29 3.4s} Rc6 {+5.36/16 6.0s}
39. Rda3 {-7.08/18 0.67s} Bc8 {+5.41/16 7.5s} 40. Rb1 {-7.35/17 0.14s}
Nd7 {+5.52/16 16s} 41. Bxb5 {-7.21/31 4.4s} axb5 {+6.58/13 4.3s}
42. Rxb5 {-7.44/36 14s} Rc1+ {+6.66/15 7.1s} 43. Kh2 {-8.27/34 16s}
Rc2+ {+6.88/15 6.7s} 44. Kg1 {-8.60/35 30s} Nc5 {+6.93/16 11s}
45. Ra7+ {-8.27/29 3.3s} Bd7 {+7.21/16 5.5s} 46. Kf1 {-8.43/36 25s}
f5 {+7.91/14 6.2s} 47. exf5 {-7.21/22 3.0s} gxf5 {+8.49/13 8.3s}
48. Rba5 {-8.46/28 24s} e4 {+9.06/14 9.6s} 49. Ra2 {-10.46/28 44s}
Rxa2 {+10.66/15 6.1s} 50. Rxa2 {-142.48/31 11s} exf3 {+13.31/16 5.5s}
51. Kf2 {-M32/59 8.1s} fxg4 {+15.69/16 8.9s} 52. hxg4 {-M30/59 3.9s}
Bxg4 {+17.53/15 4.9s} 53. Ke3 {-M26/62 2.6s} Re5+ {+22.29/15 5.1s}
54. Kd4 {-M24/66 2.8s} Re2 {+22.90/15 101s} 55. Ra7+ {-M22/67 3.0s}
Bd7 {+22.90/15 4.9s} 56. Ra3 {-M20/66 2.8s} Ne6+ {+22.90/13 4.8s}
57. Kc4 {-M18/73 3.5s} f2 {+M19/12 9.6s} 58. Rf3 {-M16/77 2.8s}
Ng5 {+M17/12 11s} 59. Rxf2 {-M16/64 3.0s} Rxf2 {+M15/11 1.5s}
60. Kd3 {-M14/65 3.5s} h3 {+M13/11 1.4s} 61. Ke3 {-M12/98 3.0s}
Rf3+ {+M11/22 2.3s} 62. Kd4 {-M10/245 2.4s} h2 {+M9/44 0.96s}
63. Kc5 {-M8/245 0.11s} h1=Q {+M7/48 2.5s} 64. Kb4 {-M6/245 0.031s}
Qb1+ {+M5/47 3.2s} 65. Kc4 {-M4/245 0.005s} Qb5+ {+M3/46 3.2s}
66. Kd4 {-M2/245 0.007s} Rd3# {+M1/46 3.3s, Black mates} 0-1

[/pgn]

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.05.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_21051119_x64_avx2"]
[Black "Fruit2.2.1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[GameDuration "00:10:40"]
[GameEndTime "2021-05-12T11:01:55.716 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[GameStartTime "2021-05-12T10:51:15.575 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[PlyCount "97"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]

1. e4 {-4.71/30 11s} e5 {+2.93/14 8.7s} 2. d4 {-4.55/24 1.8s}
exd4 {+2.99/14 11s} 3. Bc4 {-4.86/31 20s} Nc6 {+2.98/12 5.6s}
4. O-O {-4.86/26 5.3s} Qf6 {+3.03/13 10s} 5. Nd2 {-4.36/26 27s}
d6 {+3.17/13 6.9s} 6. f4 {-4.26/24 2.2s} Be6 {+3.31/13 5.6s}
7. Bd3 {-4.43/28 15s} O-O-O {+3.58/13 5.7s} 8. Nf3 {-4.45/27 3.5s}
Bg4 {+3.51/13 6.5s} 9. Bd2 {-4.72/29 31s} d5 {+3.53/13 7.8s}
10. e5 {-4.43/23 2.6s} Qe7 {+3.40/12 6.9s} 11. h3 {-4.17/24 6.1s}
Bxf3 {+3.27/13 18s} 12. Qxf3 {-4.16/22 2.3s} Nh6 {+3.32/13 5.7s}
13. Rfe1 {-3.89/28 11s} Qd7 {+3.50/13 6.8s} 14. a3 {-4.28/27 4.6s}
Nf5 {+3.25/14 14s} 15. g4 {-4.59/27 11s} Nh6 {+3.20/13 5.6s}
16. b4 {-3.40/24 3.2s} a6 {+3.16/14 7.9s} 17. Rab1 {-2.63/23 3.6s}
Na7 {+2.84/13 5.9s} 18. f5 {-2.75/25 3.5s} Ng8 {+2.93/13 7.9s}
19. a4 {-1.06/26 3.4s} h5 {+2.66/14 6.9s} 20. g5 {-1.13/27 3.6s}
Kb8 {+2.63/15 7.9s} 21. b5 {-1.35/29 6.2s} axb5 {+2.56/14 6.5s}
22. Bxb5 {-0.86/28 2.9s} Nxb5 {+3.31/13 4.5s} 23. Rxb5 {-1.04/29 4.5s}
Qc6 {+2.99/14 9.6s} 24. Reb1 {-0.45/30 4.0s} b6 {+2.59/14 9.6s}
25. a5 {0.00/31 3.5s} Bc5 {+2.61/13 4.0s} 26. Qd3 {0.00/35 4.7s}
Kc8 {+1.67/14 9.3s} 27. axb6 {0.00/38 3.8s} Bxb6 {+2.63/12 5.8s}
28. g6 {0.00/39 4.2s} fxg6 {+2.49/13 6.3s} 29. Ba5 {0.00/44 4.4s}
Bxa5 {+2.09/13 5.4s} 30. Rc5 {0.00/47 4.1s} Qa8 {+0.26/15 14s}
31. Qa3 {+2.23/33 4.2s} Kd7 {+0.20/14 3.6s} 32. Rxa5 {+4.34/34 5.5s}
Qc8 {+0.14/14 7.4s} 33. Ra7 {+5.86/30 4.8s} Ke8 {0.00/14 5.1s}
34. Rbb7 {+6.47/31 5.4s} Qxf5 {0.00/14 7.5s} 35. Rxc7 {+20.64/36 5.6s}
Qe6 {-8.36/14 18s} 36. Qa4+ {+M27/63 6.9s} Kf8 {-8.36/14 4.6s}
37. Qb4+ {+M25/67 7.3s} Ke8 {-M26/13 7.5s} 38. Qb5+ {+M23/73 9.5s}
Kf8 {-13.99/11 3.1s} 39. Qb7 {+M21/75 11s} Nf6 {-M20/11 2.9s}
40. Qb4+ {+M19/74 8.4s} Rd6 {-M18/11 2.1s} 41. Qxd6+ {+M17/77 5.1s}
Qxd6 {-M16/15 7.0s} 42. exd6 {+M15/89 5.0s} Ne8 {-M14/21 5.8s}
43. d7 {+M13/108 4.7s} Nxc7 {-M12/52 6.3s} 44. d8=Q+ {+M11/212 4.6s}
Kf7 {-M10/52 6.2s} 45. Qxd5+ {+M9/245 1.2s} Kf6 {-M8/51 6.2s}
46. Rxc7 {+M7/245 0.020s} g5 {-M6/49 6.2s} 47. Qd6+ {+M5/245 0.071s}
Kf5 {-M4/4 0.002s} 48. Rf7+ {+M3/245 0.006s} Ke4 {-M2/4 0.001s}
49. Qe6# {+M1/245 0.003s, White mates} 1-0

[/pgn]
Uri Blass
Posts: 11175
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by Uri Blass »

Latest developement version of stockfish performed better and it could win Fruit even at longer time control
then the time control that I tried earlier(20 minutes/40 moves)

I did not play many games with it.


[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.05.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_21051119_x64_avx2"]
[Black "Fruit2.2.1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[GameDuration "01:40:48"]
[GameEndTime "2021-05-12T12:44:47.810 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[GameStartTime "2021-05-12T11:03:59.242 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[PlyCount "205"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "40/1200"]

1. e4 {-4.90/37 57s} e5 {+2.96/16 35s} 2. d4 {-4.78/27 6.9s} exd4 {+3.13/15 32s}
3. Bd3 {-4.84/36 105s} Nc6 {+3.45/16 47s} 4. O-O {-4.77/33 33s}
Bc5 {+3.50/16 41s} 5. a3 {-4.78/31 38s} d6 {+3.93/15 25s} 6. Qe2 {-5.14/34 129s}
Nf6 {+4.35/15 22s} 7. Bg5 {-5.01/34 43s} h6 {+4.31/16 41s}
8. Bxf6 {-5.09/32 8.5s} Qxf6 {+4.42/15 23s} 9. b4 {-5.02/31 22s}
Bb6 {+4.46/16 12s} 10. f4 {-5.25/32 19s} h5 {+4.46/16 34s}
11. Nd2 {-4.91/29 12s} Bg4 {+4.42/15 22s} 12. Qe1 {-5.12/30 34s}
h4 {+4.46/16 38s} 13. h3 {-4.91/31 20s} Be6 {+4.33/16 28s}
14. Rb1 {-5.38/36 96s} a6 {+4.54/15 22s} 15. Kh1 {-5.21/33 32s}
O-O-O {+4.60/15 18s} 16. a4 {-5.05/32 43s} a5 {+4.40/16 22s}
17. bxa5 {-5.25/30 9.2s} Bxa5 {+4.80/15 30s} 18. Qe2 {-5.89/37 92s}
Rde8 {+4.61/16 35s} 19. Rb5 {-5.38/32 46s} Qh6 {+4.73/16 43s}
20. Qd1 {-5.55/38 55s} f6 {+4.98/15 42s} 21. Nc4 {-4.71/27 6.7s}
b6 {+3.87/17 144s} 22. Nxa5 {-4.00/32 21s} Nxa5 {+3.87/16 27s}
23. Qb1 {-4.16/30 11s} Nc4 {+3.85/15 31s} 24. Qb4 {-4.12/33 12s}
c5 {+4.56/15 13s} 25. Qe1 {-4.16/32 9.3s} Kc7 {+4.06/15 54s}
26. a5 {-3.89/35 8.2s} Rb8 {+4.01/15 25s} 27. c3 {-5.97/37 60s}
dxc3 {+4.08/15 20s} 28. Qxc3 {-4.22/32 4.5s} Nxa5 {+3.75/15 30s}
29. Rxa5 {-5.03/42 48s} bxa5 {+3.78/15 15s} 30. Qxa5+ {-5.20/37 5.4s}
Rb6 {+3.72/16 12s} 31. Qa7+ {-4.77/37 16s} Kc6 {+4.17/15 13s}
32. e5 {-0.14/32 3.8s} fxe5 {+2.71/16 96s} 33. Be4+ {0.00/39 5.9s}
d5 {+2.71/16 15s} 34. Bc2 {0.00/45 6.9s} Rb4 {+1.62/13 11s}
35. fxe5 {0.00/42 7.3s} Bd7 {+1.44/13 7.7s} 36. Ba4+ {0.00/47 8.3s}
Rxa4 {0.00/18 19s} 37. Qxa4+ {0.00/49 8.3s} Kc7 {0.00/18 10s}
38. Qa7+ {0.00/55 11s} Kd8 {0.00/18 16s} 39. Qa5+ {0.00/55 12s}
Ke8 {0.00/18 15s} 40. e6 {0.00/55 12s} Bxe6 {0.00/17 11s} 41. Qxc5 {0.00/58 17s}
Qg5 {0.00/16 24s} 42. Qc6+ {0.00/59 19s} Ke7 {0.00/18 27s}
43. Qb7+ {0.00/64 43s} Kd6 {0.00/18 44s} 44. Qb4+ {0.00/68 31s}
Kc6 {0.00/17 27s} 45. Re1 {0.00/54 15s} Rh6 {0.00/15 47s} 46. Ra1 {0.00/63 21s}
Bg8 {0.00/15 32s} 47. Qa4+ {+0.11/49 42s} Kd6 {0.00/16 23s}
48. Qb4+ {+0.25/52 14s} Ke6 {0.00/17 37s} 49. Qb6+ {+0.20/55 22s}
Kf5 {-0.24/17 22s} 50. Rf1+ {+1.00/48 20s} Ke4 {-0.15/16 20s}
51. Qb1+ {+0.89/52 23s} Kd4 {-0.29/17 34s} 52. Qb2+ {+0.97/53 21s}
Kc5 {-0.41/17 23s} 53. Rc1+ {+1.12/56 21s} Kd6 {-0.52/17 34s}
54. Qb8+ {+2.68/42 24s} Ke7 {-0.52/17 34s} 55. Rc7+ {+2.94/44 24s}
Kf6 {-0.39/14 17s} 56. Qxg8 {+3.20/43 23s} Ke5 {-0.71/15 63s}
57. Qb8 {+3.78/44 30s} Kf5 {-0.79/14 17s} 58. Qb1+ {+3.95/47 37s}
Ke6 {-0.78/16 35s} 59. Qb7 {+4.50/47 51s} Qd2 {-0.67/15 32s}
60. Re7+ {+4.54/49 26s} Kf6 {-0.86/16 25s} 61. Rf7+ {+4.87/46 40s}
Kg6 {-0.83/16 56s} 62. Rxg7+ {+5.04/44 27s} Kf5 {-0.83/16 32s}
63. Qd7+ {+5.17/45 24s} Ke5 {-1.19/15 25s} 64. Re7+ {+5.78/48 26s}
Kd4 {-0.92/16 32s} 65. Qa4+ {+6.24/50 43s} Kc5 {-1.50/16 31s}
66. Rc7+ {+6.66/45 33s} Kd6 {-1.17/15 29s} 67. Qd7+ {+6.87/44 30s}
Ke5 {-0.76/4 0.004s} 68. Qg7+ {+6.87/43 28s} Ke4 {-1.34/16 17s}
69. Re7+ {+7.65/43 40s} Kd3 {-1.51/17 34s} 70. Qe5 {+7.82/44 27s}
Kc4 {-1.48/16 31s} 71. Rc7+ {+8.05/42 29s} Kb5 {-4.29/17 36s}
72. Qe8+ {+8.47/40 50s} Ka5 {-4.33/17 24s} 73. Rc5+ {+8.65/41 29s}
Kb4 {-4.57/18 30s} 74. Qb5+ {+9.06/40 35s} Ka3 {-1.21/4 0.002s}
75. Qb1 {+9.35/37 35s} Rb6 {-4.61/19 33s} 76. Qa1+ {+9.48/35 34s}
Kb3 {-4.61/19 29s} 77. Rc1 {+9.69/36 40s} Rb4 {-4.74/18 47s}
78. Rd1 {+10.34/35 40s} Qc2 {-4.76/17 20s} 79. Rb1+ {+11.85/36 46s}
Kc4 {-5.37/18 45s} 80. Rc1 {+12.19/31 18s} Qxc1+ {-4.76/17 32s}
81. Qxc1+ {+13.02/31 30s} Kd4 {-4.94/15 35s} 82. g4 {+15.64/33 35s}
hxg3 {-6.34/18 54s} 83. Kg2 {+17.36/31 24s} Rc4 {-5.84/17 23s}
84. Qd2+ {+20.93/31 28s} Ke5 {-5.62/13 21s} 85. h4 {+31.24/29 28s}
Kd6 {-9.41/19 355s} 86. Kxg3 {+50.35/32 27s} Ra4 {-9.35/15 19s}
87. h5 {+70.10/41 27s} Ra3+ {-10.27/18 47s} 88. Kg2 {+M103/42 26s}
Ra7 {-10.20/16 21s} 89. h6 {+M31/73 27s} Rb7 {-10.51/18 22s}
90. Qc2 {+M29/76 33s} Rb8 {-10.51/16 36s} 91. h7 {+M27/82 32s}
d4 {-10.51/13 22s} 92. Qe4 {+M23/88 27s} Kc7 {-10.73/15 16s}
93. Qxd4 {+M21/98 28s} Rd8 {-10.69/12 11s} 94. Qxd8+ {+M19/112 27s}
Kxd8 {-10.78/13 22s} 95. h8=Q+ {+M17/211 28s} Kd7 {-10.70/10 21s}
96. Qf6 {+M15/180 28s} Kc7 {-10.87/10 14s} 97. Kf3 {+M13/245 3.3s}
Kd7 {-M12/60 13s} 98. Ke4 {+M11/245 1.3s} Kc7 {-M10/59 16s}
99. Kd5 {+M9/245 0.030s} Kb7 {-M8/57 15s} 100. Qd6 {+M7/245 0.012s}
Kc8 {-M6/56 16s} 101. Qe7 {+M5/245 0.007s} Kb8 {-M4/4 0.001s}
102. Kc6 {+M3/245 0.004s} Kc8 {-M2/52 15s}
103. Qe8# {+M1/245 0.002s, White mates} 1-0

[/pgn]
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by Chessqueen »

Uri Blass wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:48 am Latest developement version of stockfish performed better and it could win Fruit even at longer time control
then the time control that I tried earlier(20 minutes/40 moves)

I did not play many games with it.


[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.05.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_21051119_x64_avx2"]
[Black "Fruit2.2.1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[GameDuration "01:40:48"]
[GameEndTime "2021-05-12T12:44:47.810 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[GameStartTime "2021-05-12T11:03:59.242 שעון קיץ ירושלים"]
[PlyCount "205"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "40/1200"]

1. e4 {-4.90/37 57s} e5 {+2.96/16 35s} 2. d4 {-4.78/27 6.9s} exd4 {+3.13/15 32s}
3. Bd3 {-4.84/36 105s} Nc6 {+3.45/16 47s} 4. O-O {-4.77/33 33s}
Bc5 {+3.50/16 41s} 5. a3 {-4.78/31 38s} d6 {+3.93/15 25s} 6. Qe2 {-5.14/34 129s}
Nf6 {+4.35/15 22s} 7. Bg5 {-5.01/34 43s} h6 {+4.31/16 41s}
8. Bxf6 {-5.09/32 8.5s} Qxf6 {+4.42/15 23s} 9. b4 {-5.02/31 22s}
Bb6 {+4.46/16 12s} 10. f4 {-5.25/32 19s} h5 {+4.46/16 34s}
11. Nd2 {-4.91/29 12s} Bg4 {+4.42/15 22s} 12. Qe1 {-5.12/30 34s}
h4 {+4.46/16 38s} 13. h3 {-4.91/31 20s} Be6 {+4.33/16 28s}
14. Rb1 {-5.38/36 96s} a6 {+4.54/15 22s} 15. Kh1 {-5.21/33 32s}
O-O-O {+4.60/15 18s} 16. a4 {-5.05/32 43s} a5 {+4.40/16 22s}
17. bxa5 {-5.25/30 9.2s} Bxa5 {+4.80/15 30s} 18. Qe2 {-5.89/37 92s}
Rde8 {+4.61/16 35s} 19. Rb5 {-5.38/32 46s} Qh6 {+4.73/16 43s}
20. Qd1 {-5.55/38 55s} f6 {+4.98/15 42s} 21. Nc4 {-4.71/27 6.7s}
b6 {+3.87/17 144s} 22. Nxa5 {-4.00/32 21s} Nxa5 {+3.87/16 27s}
23. Qb1 {-4.16/30 11s} Nc4 {+3.85/15 31s} 24. Qb4 {-4.12/33 12s}
c5 {+4.56/15 13s} 25. Qe1 {-4.16/32 9.3s} Kc7 {+4.06/15 54s}
26. a5 {-3.89/35 8.2s} Rb8 {+4.01/15 25s} 27. c3 {-5.97/37 60s}
dxc3 {+4.08/15 20s} 28. Qxc3 {-4.22/32 4.5s} Nxa5 {+3.75/15 30s}
29. Rxa5 {-5.03/42 48s} bxa5 {+3.78/15 15s} 30. Qxa5+ {-5.20/37 5.4s}
Rb6 {+3.72/16 12s} 31. Qa7+ {-4.77/37 16s} Kc6 {+4.17/15 13s}
32. e5 {-0.14/32 3.8s} fxe5 {+2.71/16 96s} 33. Be4+ {0.00/39 5.9s}
d5 {+2.71/16 15s} 34. Bc2 {0.00/45 6.9s} Rb4 {+1.62/13 11s}
35. fxe5 {0.00/42 7.3s} Bd7 {+1.44/13 7.7s} 36. Ba4+ {0.00/47 8.3s}
Rxa4 {0.00/18 19s} 37. Qxa4+ {0.00/49 8.3s} Kc7 {0.00/18 10s}
38. Qa7+ {0.00/55 11s} Kd8 {0.00/18 16s} 39. Qa5+ {0.00/55 12s}
Ke8 {0.00/18 15s} 40. e6 {0.00/55 12s} Bxe6 {0.00/17 11s} 41. Qxc5 {0.00/58 17s}
Qg5 {0.00/16 24s} 42. Qc6+ {0.00/59 19s} Ke7 {0.00/18 27s}
43. Qb7+ {0.00/64 43s} Kd6 {0.00/18 44s} 44. Qb4+ {0.00/68 31s}
Kc6 {0.00/17 27s} 45. Re1 {0.00/54 15s} Rh6 {0.00/15 47s} 46. Ra1 {0.00/63 21s}
Bg8 {0.00/15 32s} 47. Qa4+ {+0.11/49 42s} Kd6 {0.00/16 23s}
48. Qb4+ {+0.25/52 14s} Ke6 {0.00/17 37s} 49. Qb6+ {+0.20/55 22s}
Kf5 {-0.24/17 22s} 50. Rf1+ {+1.00/48 20s} Ke4 {-0.15/16 20s}
51. Qb1+ {+0.89/52 23s} Kd4 {-0.29/17 34s} 52. Qb2+ {+0.97/53 21s}
Kc5 {-0.41/17 23s} 53. Rc1+ {+1.12/56 21s} Kd6 {-0.52/17 34s}
54. Qb8+ {+2.68/42 24s} Ke7 {-0.52/17 34s} 55. Rc7+ {+2.94/44 24s}
Kf6 {-0.39/14 17s} 56. Qxg8 {+3.20/43 23s} Ke5 {-0.71/15 63s}
57. Qb8 {+3.78/44 30s} Kf5 {-0.79/14 17s} 58. Qb1+ {+3.95/47 37s}
Ke6 {-0.78/16 35s} 59. Qb7 {+4.50/47 51s} Qd2 {-0.67/15 32s}
60. Re7+ {+4.54/49 26s} Kf6 {-0.86/16 25s} 61. Rf7+ {+4.87/46 40s}
Kg6 {-0.83/16 56s} 62. Rxg7+ {+5.04/44 27s} Kf5 {-0.83/16 32s}
63. Qd7+ {+5.17/45 24s} Ke5 {-1.19/15 25s} 64. Re7+ {+5.78/48 26s}
Kd4 {-0.92/16 32s} 65. Qa4+ {+6.24/50 43s} Kc5 {-1.50/16 31s}
66. Rc7+ {+6.66/45 33s} Kd6 {-1.17/15 29s} 67. Qd7+ {+6.87/44 30s}
Ke5 {-0.76/4 0.004s} 68. Qg7+ {+6.87/43 28s} Ke4 {-1.34/16 17s}
69. Re7+ {+7.65/43 40s} Kd3 {-1.51/17 34s} 70. Qe5 {+7.82/44 27s}
Kc4 {-1.48/16 31s} 71. Rc7+ {+8.05/42 29s} Kb5 {-4.29/17 36s}
72. Qe8+ {+8.47/40 50s} Ka5 {-4.33/17 24s} 73. Rc5+ {+8.65/41 29s}
Kb4 {-4.57/18 30s} 74. Qb5+ {+9.06/40 35s} Ka3 {-1.21/4 0.002s}
75. Qb1 {+9.35/37 35s} Rb6 {-4.61/19 33s} 76. Qa1+ {+9.48/35 34s}
Kb3 {-4.61/19 29s} 77. Rc1 {+9.69/36 40s} Rb4 {-4.74/18 47s}
78. Rd1 {+10.34/35 40s} Qc2 {-4.76/17 20s} 79. Rb1+ {+11.85/36 46s}
Kc4 {-5.37/18 45s} 80. Rc1 {+12.19/31 18s} Qxc1+ {-4.76/17 32s}
81. Qxc1+ {+13.02/31 30s} Kd4 {-4.94/15 35s} 82. g4 {+15.64/33 35s}
hxg3 {-6.34/18 54s} 83. Kg2 {+17.36/31 24s} Rc4 {-5.84/17 23s}
84. Qd2+ {+20.93/31 28s} Ke5 {-5.62/13 21s} 85. h4 {+31.24/29 28s}
Kd6 {-9.41/19 355s} 86. Kxg3 {+50.35/32 27s} Ra4 {-9.35/15 19s}
87. h5 {+70.10/41 27s} Ra3+ {-10.27/18 47s} 88. Kg2 {+M103/42 26s}
Ra7 {-10.20/16 21s} 89. h6 {+M31/73 27s} Rb7 {-10.51/18 22s}
90. Qc2 {+M29/76 33s} Rb8 {-10.51/16 36s} 91. h7 {+M27/82 32s}
d4 {-10.51/13 22s} 92. Qe4 {+M23/88 27s} Kc7 {-10.73/15 16s}
93. Qxd4 {+M21/98 28s} Rd8 {-10.69/12 11s} 94. Qxd8+ {+M19/112 27s}
Kxd8 {-10.78/13 22s} 95. h8=Q+ {+M17/211 28s} Kd7 {-10.70/10 21s}
96. Qf6 {+M15/180 28s} Kc7 {-10.87/10 14s} 97. Kf3 {+M13/245 3.3s}
Kd7 {-M12/60 13s} 98. Ke4 {+M11/245 1.3s} Kc7 {-M10/59 16s}
99. Kd5 {+M9/245 0.030s} Kb7 {-M8/57 15s} 100. Qd6 {+M7/245 0.012s}
Kc8 {-M6/56 16s} 101. Qe7 {+M5/245 0.007s} Kb8 {-M4/4 0.001s}
102. Kc6 {+M3/245 0.004s} Kc8 {-M2/52 15s}
103. Qe8# {+M1/245 0.002s, White mates} 1-0

[/pgn]
I was also wondering if the Bishop is an equal handicap to the Knight or does it benefit the engine better against a human GM ?
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.05.12"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish 13"]
[Black "Fruit 2.2.1"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "06:04:55"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQK1NR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "97"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 Be7 4. Nc3 O-O 5. O-O b6 6. d5 Bb4 7. Na4 Ba6 8.
a3 Bd6 9. b3 exd5 10. cxd5 Qe7 11. Nc3 Ne4 12. Nxe4 Qxe4 13. Ra2 Re8 14.
Re1 Bb7 15. Rd2 Na6 16. Bb2 Qg6 17. b4 Re4 18. Qc2 Rae8 19. Red1 f5 20. h3
Nb8 21. Kh1 R8e7 22. Re1 Ba6 23. e3 f4 24. Bd4 fxe3 25. Bxe3 Bc4 26. Rc1
Qh5 27. Qxc4 Rxc4 28. Rxc4 Rf7 29. Ng5 Rf5 30. Rg4 Be7 31. d6 Bxd6 32. Ne4
Be5 33. Ng3 Bxg3 34. Rxg3 d6 35. Rg4 Rd5 36. Bh6 Rxd2 37. Bxd2 Nc6 38. b5
Ne5 39. Rd4 Qe2 40. Kg1 Nc4 41. Bf4 Nxa3 42. Rd2 Qe1+ 43. Kh2 Nxb5 44. Rb2
Nd4 45. f3 Ne2 46. Be3 c5 47. Rd2 Ng3 48. Rf2 Nf5 49. Ra2 {White resigns} *[/pgn]
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: We are reaching the Max Odds that a top engine can give the top 3 GM's

Post by Chessqueen »

I was also wondering if the Bishop is an equal handicap to the Knight or does it benefit the engine better against a human GM ? .Here is Stockfish giving the c1 Bishop , it is hard to predict if a Knight odds or Bishop odds benefit a human GM more or the Engine. I would like to hear from Mr. Larry Kaufman. :?:

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.05.12"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Stockfish 13"]
[Black "Fruit 2.2.1"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "06:59:44"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RN1QKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "155"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 c5 2. d5 Qb6 3. e4 f5 4. exf5 Qxb2 5. Nd2 Qe5+ 6. Ne2 Qxd5 7. Ng3 Nf6
8. Bc4 Qe5+ 9. Be2 h5 10. h4 Qf4 11. O-O Qxh4 12. Re1 Kd8 13. Nf3 Qf4 14.
Bd3 Nc6 15. Ne2 Qh6 16. Nh4 Ne5 17. g3 Nd5 18. Be4 Ne3 19. Qb1 N3c4 20. Nf4
Qf6 21. Qb3 d6 22. Ne6+ Bxe6 23. Qxb7 Nb6 24. fxe6 Qxe6 25. Rab1 Qc8 26.
Rxb6 axb6 27. Qxa8 Qxa8 28. Bxa8 Kd7 29. Nf3 Nc6 30. Rb1 Kc7 31. Ng5 Nd8
32. Re1 h4 33. g4 e5 34. Ne4 Be7 35. Nc3 Ne6 36. Be4 Nf4 37. a4 h3 38. Rb1
h2+ 39. Kh1 Rh3 40. f3 Rh6 41. a5 bxa5 42. Rb7+ Kd8 43. Bc6 d5 44. Bxd5
Nxd5 45. Nxd5 Bf6 46. Ra7 Rh3 47. Rxa5 Rxf3 48. Rxc5 Rf2 49. Nxf6 gxf6 50.
g5 Ke7 51. gxf6+ Kxf6 52. Rc4 Kg5 53. Re4 Kf5 54. Rh4 Rd2 55. Rxh2 Rd1+ 56.
Kg2 Kf4 57. c4 e4 58. Rh4+ Ke3 59. Rh3+ Ke2 60. Ra3 e3 61. c5 Rd5 62. Ra2+
Rd2 63. Ra1 Rc2 64. Kg3 Rxc5 65. Ra2+ Kd3 66. Kf3 Rf5+ 67. Kg3 Re5 68. Ra3+
Kc2 69. Ra2+ Kb3 70. Ra1 Kb2 71. Rh1 Kc3 72. Ra1 Kd4 73. Ra4+ Kd5 74. Ra5+
Ke4 75. Rxe5+ Kxe5 76. Kf3 Kd4 77. Ke2 Kc3 78. Ke1 1/2-1/2[/pgn]