Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by Chessqueen »

pepechuy wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:25 am Hi.

Now, the game against Komodo, removing the a1 rook.
I like my move 16... Nc4. I realised that the priority must be to recover the square d7 for my queen, thus the need to remove White's knight from e5.
Unfortunately, I did not follow up correctly, I now think 17... Bd6 (instead of the immediate 17... Qd7) was better, in order to capture the knight as soon as it reaches e5 or c5.
I completely missed 22. Bb4. At least I got two minor pieces for the queen, plus the rook I had from the beginning. I was not worried then.
From Komodo's evaluation, I see now that 28... Kb6 was a blunder.
I am confident that, eventually, I will win. ¿How many tries before that? Hopefully not too many.

[pgn]
[Event "banksia game"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2022.03.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo 12.1.1 64-bit"]
[Black "hm::Garcia Ruvalcaba, Jose de Jesus"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[Time "16:13:06"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "mate"]

1. e4 {-3.29/23 38935 32459719} 1... e5 2. Nf3 {-3.32/23 21324 30474735} 2...
Nf6 3. Nxe5 {-3.30/24 40350 37965178} 3... d6 4. Nf3 {-3.33/24 32901 30090886}
4... Nxe4 5. d4 {-3.39/24 44043 50635564} 5... d5 6. Bd3 {-3.48/25 56249
44633704} 6... Be7 7. O-O {-3.56/26 123311 102591963} 7... Nc6 8. Nc3 {-3.68/23
76097 66103150} 8... Nf6 9. h3 {-3.29/22 32351 27703355} 9... Be6 10. Ne2
{-3.16/24 47434 44305809} 10... Qd7 11. Re1 {-2.87/22 43948 42436002} 11...
O-O-O 12. Bb5 {-2.66/21 24401 21176600} 12... Ne4 13. Ne5 {-2.19/23 39974
40094952} 13... Qe8 14. Bxc6 {-2.27/22 25053 28176038} 14... bxc6 15. f3
{-2.39/24 61152 63586519} 15... Nd6 16. Nf4 {-2.60/21 18715 22828372} 16... Nc4
17. Ned3 {-2.28/23 23603 23351474} 17... Qd7 18. b3 {-1.57/23 30671 32038766}
18... Nb6 19. a4 {-1.83/22 24718 27337945} 19... Kb8 20. Ne5 {-1.88/23 25211
28012202} 20... Qd6 21. Bd2 {-2.00/26 10 38515090} 21... Bf6 22. Bb4 {+0.00/26
29258 30531185} 22... Bxe5 23. Bxd6 {+0.00/28 10 22930531} 23... Bxd6 24. Nxe6
{+0.00/26 5322 8478374} 24... fxe6 25. Qd3 {+0.00/28 23484 26353191} 25... Rde8
26. Qc3 {+0.53/25 27993 29251195} 26... Kb7 27. a5 {+0.75/28 27220 29730276}
27... Nd7 28. a6+ {+0.61/28 5326 48335680} 28... Kb6 29. Ra1 {+8.39/26 22596
24617167} 29... c5 30. Qa5+ {M+6/29 2249 5243648} 30... Kc6 31. Qa4+ {M+5/50 426
5499582} 31... Kb6 32. c4 {M+4/99 10 887017} 32... cxd4 33. Qb5# {M+1/99 27
2376} 1-0
[/pgn]

The next game, against Lc0, removing the h1 rook, most likely next week (if I get the chance, I might play it Saturday).

Greetings.
By removing the h1 Rook is too easy, since it is already a huge handicap, and Now the engine can NOT even castle :?: :shock:
pepechuy
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:22 am
Full name: José García Ruvalcaba

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by pepechuy »

Chessqueen wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:45 am
By removing the h1 Rook is too easy, since it is already a huge handicap, and Now the engine can NOT even castle :?: :shock:
¿Why not? It can castle queenside.
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by Chessqueen »

pepechuy wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:08 am
Chessqueen wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:45 am
By removing the h1 Rook is too easy, since it is already a huge handicap, and Now the engine can NOT even castle :?: :shock:
¿Why not? It can castle queenside.
It is NOT the same removing the h1 Rook from Komodo Dragon then removing the a1 Rook, I believe that the difference in evaluation from the starting position might be close to -2.65 for Rook a1 missing and -3.27 for the h1 Rook Odds . Anyway I always have a hard time even drawing vs Komodo Dragon with the a1 Rook missing, but here is a game with the h1 Rook Odds.
[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2022.04.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2.6.1-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1700"]
[Time "19:52:38"]
[WhiteElo "3550"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBN1 w kq - 1 1"]
[Termination "time forfeit"]
[PlyCount "100"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]


1. Nf3 Nc6 2. d4 Nf6 3. d5 Nb8 4. c4 c6 5. a3 b5 6. cxb5 cxd5 7. Nc3 e6 8.
e3 a6 9. b4 Be7 10. Bb2 axb5 11. Nxb5 Ba6 12. Nc3 Bxf1 13. Kxf1 Nc6 14. b5
Na5 15. Nd2 Nb7 16. a4 Nc5 17. Ne2 O-O 18. f3 Qb8 19. Kg1 e5 20. Ng3 Re8
21. Kh1 Bd6 22. Ngf1 Re6 23. h3 Qb6 24. Nb1 Qb7 25. Nbd2 Nd3 26. Qb3 Nxb2
27. Qxb2 Bc5 28. Ra2 d6 29. a5 d4 30. e4 d3 31. Ng3 Bd4 32. Qb1 Rb8 33. Ra3
Bf2 34. a6 Qa7 35. Ndf1 Bxg3 36. Nxg3 d2 37. Ra1 Qf2 38. Kh2 Re7 39. Qb4
Rc7 40. Rd1 Rc1 41. Qxd6 Qa7 42. Qxd2 Rxd1 43. Qxd1 h5 44. Qd3 Qc5 45. Nf5
g6 46. Qd6 Qxd6 47. Nxd6 Nd7 48. Nc4 Ra8 49. Kg3 Kf8 50. Kf2 Ke8 51. Kg3
(51. ... {0-1 White forfeits on time}) 0-1[/pgn]
lkaufman
Posts: 6284
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Full name: Larry Kaufman

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by lkaufman »

Chessqueen wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:44 am
pepechuy wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:08 am
Chessqueen wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:45 am
By removing the h1 Rook is too easy, since it is already a huge handicap, and Now the engine can NOT even castle :?: :shock:
¿Why not? It can castle queenside.
It is NOT the same removing the h1 Rook from Komodo Dragon then removing the a1 Rook, I believe that the difference in evaluation from the starting position might be close to -2.65 for Rook a1 missing and -3.27 for the h1 Rook Odds . Anyway I always have a hard time even drawing vs Komodo Dragon with the a1 Rook missing, but here is a game with the h1 Rook Odds.
[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2022.04.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2.6.1-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1700"]
[Time "19:52:38"]
[WhiteElo "3550"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBN1 w kq - 1 1"]
[Termination "time forfeit"]
[PlyCount "100"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]


1. Nf3 Nc6 2. d4 Nf6 3. d5 Nb8 4. c4 c6 5. a3 b5 6. cxb5 cxd5 7. Nc3 e6 8.
e3 a6 9. b4 Be7 10. Bb2 axb5 11. Nxb5 Ba6 12. Nc3 Bxf1 13. Kxf1 Nc6 14. b5
Na5 15. Nd2 Nb7 16. a4 Nc5 17. Ne2 O-O 18. f3 Qb8 19. Kg1 e5 20. Ng3 Re8
21. Kh1 Bd6 22. Ngf1 Re6 23. h3 Qb6 24. Nb1 Qb7 25. Nbd2 Nd3 26. Qb3 Nxb2
27. Qxb2 Bc5 28. Ra2 d6 29. a5 d4 30. e4 d3 31. Ng3 Bd4 32. Qb1 Rb8 33. Ra3
Bf2 34. a6 Qa7 35. Ndf1 Bxg3 36. Nxg3 d2 37. Ra1 Qf2 38. Kh2 Re7 39. Qb4
Rc7 40. Rd1 Rc1 41. Qxd6 Qa7 42. Qxd2 Rxd1 43. Qxd1 h5 44. Qd3 Qc5 45. Nf5
g6 46. Qd6 Qxd6 47. Nxd6 Nd7 48. Nc4 Ra8 49. Kg3 Kf8 50. Kf2 Ke8 51. Kg3
(51. ... {0-1 White forfeits on time}) 0-1[/pgn]
Yes, h1 is a larger handicap than a1, though not a not larger, for the obvious reason that castling kingside is generally preferred over castling queenside because the king on c1 needs to move again to b1 to be secure (generally speaking). All historical rook odds games are with a1 removed, never h1. In normal chess, if White can only castle queenside while Black can only castle kingside, current Stockfish rates the position as 50% chance for each side; White has lost his opening advantage. So roughly speaking the difference between h1 and a1 odds is about a half tempo or about 0.2 pawns.
Komodo rules!
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by Chessqueen »

pepechuy wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:08 am
Chessqueen wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:45 am
By removing the h1 Rook is too easy, since it is already a huge handicap, and Now the engine can NOT even castle :?: :shock:
¿Why not? It can castle queenside.
Señor Garcia, mandame un email a pichardojnsc2@gmail.com te lo esplicare por email, te vas a convenir
pepechuy
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:22 am
Full name: José García Ruvalcaba

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by pepechuy »

Hi.

Now, the game against Lc0, removing the h1 rook. I played it yesterday.
Another win for me.

It was somewhat complicated in the beginning.
Once I castled, activating my extra rook, I felt confident about the win.
Lc0 offered a queen exchange, basically giving up.

The next game is against Stockfish, removing the a1 rook.
I will try to play it today; otherwise it will be until the weekend.

[pgn]
[Event "banksia game"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2022.04.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Lc0 v0.27.0"]
[Black "hm::Garcia Ruvalcaba, Jose de Jesus"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[Time "20:09:01"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBN1 w Qkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "mate"]

1. d4 {-8.35/5 87178 8177} 1... Nf6 2. c4 {-9.25/5 41076 3818} 2... c5 3. d5
{-7.88/5 19347 1604} 3... b5 4. cxb5 {-7.15/5 23432 2011} 4... a6 5. e4 {-6.43/5
26671 2686} 5... Nxe4 6. Qf3 {-5.99/1 10 6296} 6... Nd6 7. Nc3 {-6.06/5 77015
7992} 7... axb5 8. Bf4 {-5.63/5 15065 3308} 8... Bb7 9. O-O-O {-4.46/6 30913
3023} 9... b4 10. Bxd6 {-6.73/7 36877 7984} 10... bxc3 11. Be5 {-7.04/6 224
9162} 11... Rxa2 12. Bxc3 {-8.14/7 73409 7667} 12... Ra1+ 13. Kc2 {-12.75/8
65436 10770} 13... Rxd1 14. Kxd1 {-13.92/6 225 5896} 14... e6 15. Bc4 {-13.74/5
20779 4064} 15... Bxd5 16. Bxd5 {-15.37/6 25736 2348} 16... exd5 17. Qxd5
{-14.49/5 18540 3459} 17... Nc6 18. Nf3 {-13.88/5 48827 4967} 18... Qe7 19. Qa2
{-18.24/5 33512 3293} 19... Qe6 20. Qa8+ {-21.35/5 12576 2087} 20... Nd8 21. Ba5
{-22.76/5 58614 5427} 21... Be7 22. Bc3 {-29.35/5 31065 4380} 22... O-O 23. Qa4
{-41.58/4 29653 3228} 23... Nc6 24. h3 {-15.87/5 19886 2373} 24... Bf6 25. Qg4
{-29.31/5 24455 2053} 25... Qxg4 26. hxg4 {-59.55/5 11649 878} 26... Bxc3 27.
bxc3 {-64.56/4 12333 1125} 27... Ra8 28. Ke2 {-67.62/4 29381 2823} 28... Ra2+
29. Ke3 {-69.01/4 24191 2204} 29... Rc2 30. Kd3 {-70.15/5 45054 3936} 30... Rxf2
31. Kc4 {-76.15/4 11346 1865} 31... Rxg2 32. g5 {-83.26/4 32779 3275} 32... Rg3
33. Nd2 {-80.20/4 19907 1701} 33... Rxg5 34. Kd3 {-86.31/4 32483 3161} 34... d5
35. Kc2 {-90.65/4 26653 2728} 35... h5 36. Nf3 {-93.47/4 22744 2638} 36... Rg3
37. Nd2 {-63.32/4 20413 2132} 37... h4 38. Nf1 {-69.52/4 16442 1804} 38... Rg1
39. Nh2 {-97.83/4 19525 2096} 39... Rg2+ 40. Kb3 {-97.36/5 15341 1494} 40...
Rxh2 41. Ka4 {-47.02/5 11761 1136} 41... d4 42. Kb5 {-63.94/5 16961 1553} 42...
dxc3 43. Kb6 {-17.37/4 18325 2045} 43... c2 44. Kxc6 {-112.09/5 38252 5175}
44... c1=Q 45. Kc7 {-74.14/4 14301 2732} 45... Qh6 46. Kd7 {-14.20/5 13358 1903}
46... Ra2 47. Kc7 {-25.80/4 1399 207} 47... Ra7+ 48. Kb8 {M-2/1 21 19} 48...
Qb6+ 49. Kc8 {M-1/1 19 3} 49... Qc7# 0-1
[/pgn]

Greetings.
pepechuy
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:22 am
Full name: José García Ruvalcaba

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by pepechuy »

Chessqueen wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:55 pm
Señor Garcia, mandame un email a pichardojnsc2@gmail.com te lo esplicare por email, te vas a convenir
Hola señor Pichardo.

Prefiero no compartir mi dirección de correo electrónico.

Saludos.
pepechuy
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:22 am
Full name: José García Ruvalcaba

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by pepechuy »

Hi.

Now, the game against Stockfish, removing the a1 rook.
A win for me, but a difficult one. In the complications, I lost an exchange. Which meant that I was only a knight up.
I felt confident about the win when Stockfish played 42. gh5 (it was a relief for me to see this move).
Of course, after 42. g5 White is still lost, but I think it would have been more difficult for me (we were both low on time at that point, I probably had like three minutes, and Stockfish was basically playing on the increment).

[pgn]
[Event "banksia game"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2022.04.09"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish 14"]
[Black "hm::Garcia Ruvalcaba, Jose de Jesus"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[Time "20:48:45"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "mate"]

1. d4 {-7.21/28 66740 40595910} 1... Nf6 2. Nf3 {-7.23/28 55770 33882979} 2...
c5 3. e3 {-7.23/26 61641 41169718} 3... b6 4. d5 {-6.61/25 22198 14413301} 4...
g6 5. c4 {-6.76/27 33386 22428192} 5... Bg7 6. Bd3 {-6.92/25 17327 11705848}
6... d6 7. Nc3 {-7.30/32 130013 102485275} 7... O-O 8. O-O {-7.30/28 67843
47927044} 8... Bg4 9. h3 {-7.07/29 50803 35692170} 9... Bxf3 10. Qxf3 {-6.76/26
6301 5945061} 10... Nbd7 11. Qe2 {-7.00/29 82068 69091290} 11... a6 12. e4
{-7.53/30 131776 109780560} 12... b5 13. cxb5 {-7.15/26 9588 7414800} 13... Ne5
14. a4 {-7.66/32 145538 117073581} 14... Nxd3 15. Qxd3 {-7.92/30 15175 54775567}
15... axb5 16. Qxb5 {-7.99/26 17239 13623652} 16... Qa5 17. e5 {-7.84/26 16044
13452050} 17... Qxb5 18. axb5 {-7.53/28 21199 17229872} 18... Nd7 19. exd6
{-7.53/26 8430 7087445} 19... Bxc3 20. dxe7 {-5.78/26 11617 8744509} 20... Rfe8
21. bxc3 {-5.81/28 9864 12233835} 21... Rxe7 22. Be3 {-5.76/28 1730 10685264}
22... Ra3 23. Rc1 {-6.23/27 33585 28365718} 23... Re8 24. b6 {-6.09/31 54074
42301739} 24... Rb8 25. Re1 {-6.69/33 55490 47593275} 25... Rxb6 26. Bf4
{-6.57/34 10 58050237} 26... Kg7 27. Re7 {-6.15/24 5748 4810842} 27... Rb7 28.
Be5+ {-6.49/24 2707 5444821} 28... Kf8 29. Bd6 {-6.58/29 7329 6513785} 29... Kg7
30. Be5+ {-6.54/32 2539 25964235} 30... Nxe5 31. Rxb7 {-6.55/29 142 10032394}
31... Rxc3 32. f4 {-6.77/30 52839 42926149} 32... Nd3 33. g3 {-6.92/21 2307
2085328} 33... Rc1+ 34. Kg2 {-6.30/21 2551 2180930} 34... c4 35. Kf3 {-6.77/27
11404 10461899} 35... Kf6 36. Ke3 {-6.07/26 7733 6725610} 36... Nc5 37. Rc7
{-6.07/26 717 2489076} 37... Nb3 38. g4 {-6.14/27 221 4604085} 38... Re1+ 39.
Kf2 {-4.92/22 4631 3457868} 39... Rd1 40. Rxc4 {-4.87/26 13732 22027399} 40...
Rxd5 41. h4 {-5.00/26 13921 13866592} 41... h5 42. gxh5 {-5.76/30 44790
43197089} 42... Rxh5 43. Ke3 {-6.39/25 14529 16454344} 43... Rxh4 44. Rc7
{-6.87/26 3858 3993874} 44... Rh5 45. Ra7 {-8.11/26 4971 6828586} 45... Nc5 46.
Kf3 {-8.16/22 3133 3879467} 46... Ne6 47. Ra6 {-8.20/25 10 8337764} 47... Rf5
48. Kg3 {-9.34/27 35757 37601164} 48... Rxf4 49. Ra5 {-9.62/23 2796 8914922}
49... g5 50. Ra6 {-13.12/23 20913 27342687} 50... Kg6 51. Rb6 {-53.21/27 10
17237684} 51... Kh5 52. Rb8 {-53.21/30 18868 23980971} 52... Ng7 53. Rb6
{-57.00/30 13080 19347443} 53... Nf5+ 54. Kh2 {M-14/37 10 6341267} 54... Kg4 55.
Rb3 {M-14/48 2585 4201268} 55... Nh4 56. Rb2 {-73.04/34 6883 9886423} 56... f5
57. Rc2 {M-20/39 6008 9700469} 57... Rf3 58. Kg1 {M-15/54 10 39269755} 58... Kg3
59. Ra2 {M-16/49 3508 6338881} 59... Rb3 60. Kf1 {M-17/50 5609 10186376} 60...
f4 61. Ke2 {M-13/53 9809 16455658} 61... f3+ 62. Kd2 {M-11/63 2449 8002160}
62... f2 63. Ra1 {M-10/66 10 12221695} 63... Kf3 64. Kc2 {M-15/47 7889 12840692}
64... Re3 65. Kd2 {M-12/48 8054 14339296} 65... Re1 66. Rxe1 {M-12/53 9143
16854121} 66... fxe1=Q+ 67. Kxe1 {M-11/57 9621 20855263} 67... Kg2 68. Ke2
{M-12/51 8446 17812525} 68... g4 69. Kd1 {M-11/53 4179 16572854} 69... Kf2 70.
Kc2 {M-10/57 9186 21814560} 70... g3 71. Kb3 {M-9/58 7779 20834816} 71... g2 72.
Kb4 {M-8/61 8492 25047578} 72... g1=Q 73. Kc4 {M-7/63 6959 24815379} 73... Qd1
74. Kc5 {M-7/57 10839 27283981} 74... Ke3 75. Kc6 {M-6/74 10163 25594883} 75...
Ke4 76. Kc5 {M-6/65 10232 22621603} 76... Qd5+ 77. Kb6 {M-5/184 5671 20604661}
77... Qc4 78. Ka5 {M-4/245 687 1519286} 78... Qb3 79. Ka6 {M-3/245 80 98538}
79... Kd5 80. Ka5 {M-2/245 10 8743} 80... Kc6 81. Ka6 {M-1/245 54 490} 81...
Qa2# 0-1
[/pgn]

Next game is against Crafty, removing the a1 rook.
I am not sure when I will have time to play, hopefully soon.

After the first round, a summary of results (all from my perspective).
Crafty, a1 rook: 1/2
Komodo, h1 rook: 0
Lc0, a1 rook: 0
Stockfish, h1 rook: 0
Crafty, h1 rook: 1
Komodo, a1 rook: 0
Lc0, h1 rook: 1
Stockfish, a1 rook: 1

So far, I have dropped 4.5 points in eight games.
2.5 dropped points when getting the a1 rook (four games)
2.0 dropped points when getting the h1 rook (four games)
0.5 dropped points against Crafty (two games)
2.0 dropped points against Komodo (two games)
1.0 dropped points against Lc0 (two games)
1.0 dropped points against Stockfish (two games).

Greetings.
pepechuy
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:22 am
Full name: José García Ruvalcaba

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by pepechuy »

Chessqueen wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:44 am
It is NOT the same removing the h1 Rook from Komodo Dragon then removing the a1 Rook, I believe that the difference in evaluation from the starting position might be close to -2.65 for Rook a1 missing and -3.27 for the h1 Rook Odds . Anyway I always have a hard time even drawing vs Komodo Dragon with the a1 Rook missing, but here is a game with the h1 Rook Odds.
[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2022.04.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2.6.1-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1700"]
[Time "19:52:38"]
[WhiteElo "3550"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBN1 w kq - 1 1"]
[Termination "time forfeit"]
[PlyCount "100"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]


1. Nf3 Nc6 2. d4 Nf6 3. d5 Nb8 4. c4 c6 5. a3 b5 6. cxb5 cxd5 7. Nc3 e6 8.
e3 a6 9. b4 Be7 10. Bb2 axb5 11. Nxb5 Ba6 12. Nc3 Bxf1 13. Kxf1 Nc6 14. b5
Na5 15. Nd2 Nb7 16. a4 Nc5 17. Ne2 O-O 18. f3 Qb8 19. Kg1 e5 20. Ng3 Re8
21. Kh1 Bd6 22. Ngf1 Re6 23. h3 Qb6 24. Nb1 Qb7 25. Nbd2 Nd3 26. Qb3 Nxb2
27. Qxb2 Bc5 28. Ra2 d6 29. a5 d4 30. e4 d3 31. Ng3 Bd4 32. Qb1 Rb8 33. Ra3
Bf2 34. a6 Qa7 35. Ndf1 Bxg3 36. Nxg3 d2 37. Ra1 Qf2 38. Kh2 Re7 39. Qb4
Rc7 40. Rd1 Rc1 41. Qxd6 Qa7 42. Qxd2 Rxd1 43. Qxd1 h5 44. Qd3 Qc5 45. Nf5
g6 46. Qd6 Qxd6 47. Nxd6 Nd7 48. Nc4 Ra8 49. Kg3 Kf8 50. Kf2 Ke8 51. Kg3
(51. ... {0-1 White forfeits on time}) 0-1[/pgn]
Hi.

I do not understand how Dragon lost on time.
I tought that was not supposed to happen.

Greetings.
pepechuy
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:22 am
Full name: José García Ruvalcaba

Re: Rook odds match: human vs engines.

Post by pepechuy »

lkaufman wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:29 am
Yes, h1 is a larger handicap than a1, though not a not larger, for the obvious reason that castling kingside is generally preferred over castling queenside because the king on c1 needs to move again to b1 to be secure (generally speaking). All historical rook odds games are with a1 removed, never h1. In normal chess, if White can only castle queenside while Black can only castle kingside, current Stockfish rates the position as 50% chance for each side; White has lost his opening advantage. So roughly speaking the difference between h1 and a1 odds is about a half tempo or about 0.2 pawns.
Hi.

Ok, I understand.
But with such a large material advantage, I think that the player getting the handicap should not worry too much about the opponent castling or not castling.
What I have noticed in these games is that, although the rook is a very powerful piece, from the initial position it takes too long to become active, too many moves for its presence to be felt.
So, the priority is to open one file or two and activate the extra rook. Before that, the (weak) human player can lose due to any tactical oversight. After that, it sort of becomes easier... there are still tactical pitfalls, but somehow I feel that they are less disastrous.

Greetings.